RE: Dalotel
 

No hurry,if the 60 is as good as the 40 size it will be worth the wait. Your 40 size is the most honest airplane ive ever flown. Thanks you may e-mail me at [email protected] Randy Wallace

RE: Dalotel
 

Great stuff Obi - I think a 60 size would be very popular. Do the design at your leisure - all good things are worth waiting for.

Best of luck at the Nationals. Perhaps you could post a few shots of the event here as most will be unfamiliar with the pattern scene in your part of the world.

Ray

RE: Dalotel
 

Here are some photos. I am trying to paste them, don't know if they'll come out. haven't done this before. obi

[img]C:\Documents and Settings\Mapua\My Documents\Obm site\transfer\Dalotel 1981 A.JPG[/img]
[img]C:\Documents and Settings\Mapua\My Documents\Obm site\ dalotel cache\dalotel email 2.jpg[/img]

This is still the "small" Dalotel. The first picture is during the 1981 contest sponsored by the Philippine Air Force. I think I came out 4th there. The second is in 2005, the Dalotel I have is from the original production batch of 15 (I think) I built post-1983.

RE: Dalotel
 

Oops! The photos didn't come out. Can anyone guide me here on how to post photos? Haven't done this before. Thanks!

Thanks, Randy and Ray!

I will start today on the preliminary work on the 61 plans. The 61 I built many years ago was for a production setup; the cowls and canopies were vacuformed, and that would complicate scratch-building. The 40-46 size model was drawn up for the scratch-builder, and was relatively easy to construct. With your permission, I would like to keep the Dalotel 61 plans also on an "easy-build" basis. I could offer the option for retracts, if you wish to install them.

Thank you Randy for your email address. Ray, if you want to send me your email address, it would be great; if not, it's OK. I can update you all on the progress (not to mention easier photo posting) of the plans.

obi mapua

RE: Dalotel
 

Hi Ray!

Yes I will post (hopefully by then I will learn how to insert pictures here) the events at the Philippine Nationals. We will be flying at one of the southern islands of the Philippines, at the former airport of the city of Bacolod. Contestants will come from all over the Philippines. The events are Pattern, Fun Fly, and Scale. In Pattern, the events are Sportsman (formerly Novice), P3A+ (intermediate), FAI-F3A-P-09 (expert class), and Senior Pattern. Since I am already 63, it qualifies me for Senior. The Nationals are from 11 to 13 April. Aside from the aeromodelling fun, Bacolod is also noted for its excellent cuisine.

Pity I won't have a Dalotel for the Senior event. It would be perfect.

obi

RE: Dalotel
 

Hello everyone!

Got back from the Philippine Nationals. It was a blastthe Bacolod club was able to get the old Bacolod city airportit's closed, and they have a new one 25 min. awayas the venue for the Nats. Pattern in the morning, fun fly and scale in the afternoon. I flew Senior Pattern, got 2nd (okay, we were only 3 in that event), but the senior who beat me, Rene Avila, flew very well, using an old pattern plane, an MK Beetle (Or is it IM?) powered by a 61 Hanno. I won first round, but he beat me for the next 3 rounds. I was using my Paradigm 140, my design. That Rene was better with a smaller plane speaks volumes. (Vicious crosswind, too) The food in Bacolod is fantastic. If any of you are interested to come to this part of the planet next year, do keep in touch. It's quite a treat. The people are great. They hope to have the airport for the NATS again next year.

Now if I had a Dalotel 60, I could have joined Senior Pattern, then flown again in scale in the afternoon...

Just before I left for Bacolod, I took a look at my brother's Dalotel 61, and was a bit disappointed. At that timeover 18 years ago, we "simplified" the design for series production. This meant modifying the plane so that it could be cheaper to produce. It had retracts, by the way. My brother's plane was never flown. I was a bit disappointed, but encouraged to proceed with the new plans. I did start some CAD work, and will put this on a web site as it progresses. A lot of technical issues have to be answered...

obi mapua

RE: Dalotel
 

Obi - that's exactly why I am eagerly awaiting your new version. Two models for the price of one.

Ray

RE: Dalotel
 

Obi,

Kamusta from Chicago! How was the PI Nats? I was in Manila a couple of years ago to visit family. Unfortunately, I didn't know anyone who flies RC planes there, much less pattern, nor I was unable to find a flying field close by Muntinlupa. Knowing people there would be great so I can send home one of my planes, the Silent 120, which, you may know, is a sister ship to the Beetle.

O sige na. If you know of anyone in the Muntinlupa area as well as some flying fields there, please let me know. Salamat.

RE: Dalotel
 

Hi Ray, Hi Dolanosa!

The Philippine Nats was great. Hope they have it again in Bacolod next year. The flying field close to Muntinlupa is in Batangas, where I fly most weekends. You can join our club if you like.

Am hunkering down on the Dalotel plans. I think I can solve most of the technical problems (retract location, airfoil, wing design, etc) easily.

obi

RE: Dalotel
 

FWIW- I finally got a large electric motor and with my super light all balsa fuselage -am going to make a sport flyer Dalotel -th same size as my previous ST2300 powerd versions
These were perfectly capable FAI pattern flyers .
Proble was they didn't look like th FAI models
anyway, exact scale all except for slightly enlarged ailerons and clipped tips.
Iworked from French fotos and Dalotel's submitted 3 views .

RE: Dalotel
 

Hi Dick,
Any chance of getting plans from you for the 'gas' version? Unless you plan on producing some more wood kits :D!
Keep us posted with the results of your 'electrified' Dalotel. I'm still quite happy running the old-fashioned 2-strokes (ST2300, OS1.40, OS 1.60, Webras) and building slightly smaller (than 2 meter) airplanes.
Will Bartlett

RE: Dalotel
 

Obi, should you finish those plans for the 60 sized dalotel, I'll be happy to test the design! I have a 61SF that needs a home!

RE: Dalotel
 

Hello everybody this is Obi. The Dalotel 60 plans are nearing completionthe bulkheads are done, all the parts are laid out on sheetsthree (3) 36 x 48 in sheets. I now have to put in final detail and text. I can make paper plans, but I don't know yet how much that will cost; we have architectural plan printers here in Manila, so the cost will reflect that of a large format ink jet plotter service. Mail or courier service (Fedex, UPS) is available too. First things firstlet me finish the plans, then I will find out the cost for those who want "real" plans rather than emailed ones. Or, I can send the plans in email, in DesignCad or AutoCad format. (two more weeks should do it)

The Dalotel 60 wing is 800 sq. ins, and it's a 15% thick wing. This will allow the model to fly smoothly and slowly. (the wing thickness was also a consideration for retracts) If you build it light, a good 61 two stroke, or a 70 four stroke will deliver good performance, but won't have the unlimited vertical of an F3A pattern plane. The upper engine limit for this wing would be a YS 110 four strokebut you will have to be on your toes! All the engines you want to use (in the previous posts) will be OK.

Thank you so much for your interest in the DALOTEL. obi

RE: Dalotel
 

Obi,

great news! I look forward to your new masterpiece!

I still remember the days when Prettner flew his Dalotel... [8D]

I think I'll send you my email in a PM.

Cheers, David.

RE: Dalotel
 

Hi Rendegade!
You had a posting about the proposed Dalotel plans and then asked about my Paradigm design. I saw the post but then my server timed out and I lost my reply to youas well as the post. Can you post it again? I just got back from the CAOCC (Combined Asia Oceanic Continental Championships) for F3A pattern in Taichung, Taiwan. This was on October 19-25, 2008. I was the Philippine Team manager. We saw great pattern flying!

Pictures, and contest results on this event are on my website http://obimapua2004.multiply.com

RE: Dalotel
 

Obi, some nice pictures there, and some good scores from your boys.

I was interested in a copy of the plans for the 60 sized dalotel, in whatever format you use (.dwg .dxf whatever!)

my email is [email protected]

I was asking about the YAK too, how do you think it compares to the existing f3a aircraft?

RE: Dalotel
 

The Yak 55 was designed around the "wide body" concept, and "stretched" to fit 2 x 2 rules. I thought I had an engine that had an abundance of power, so I made the wings thick at 15%. Alas, the engine (ZDZ 40 RE) did not deliver the power needed, so the YAK had poor verticals. It still is a sweet-flying plane, but won't make F3A until I get an engine, (DL 50) still on order, that has the power. I would need about 3.5-3.75 HP. (presently I am getting only 2.25 HP) The wing area is also quite large, at 1200 sq. insF3A planes are down to 950+ sq. ins. The YAK is also overweight at 5.3 kg (11.67 lb), So I have to make a new wing, thinner (11%), and smaller950 sq ins. The gas engines will also not make the 94db noise requirement, so either I put in a YS 160-170, or go electric. However, since the local contests don't weigh planes, or take noise readings, it's OK for the Phil. Nationalsif I can get the new engine. At any rate, It's my plane for senior pattern. Can't do the P-09Both the plane and yours truly.

RE: Dalotel
 

Hi everyone!

Here are the JPEG scans of the 3 sheets of the DALOTEL 60 plans. They're not fully complete yet, as more explanatory text is needed. The plans measure 33 x 60 ins on the inside border. The border is 1-1/2" all around. The plans are on DesignCAD, but can be exported to AutoCAD if desired. I can send them that way to anyone who asks, cuz i think it will be much much cheaper than sending hard copies from the Philippines via UPS or FEDEX.

If you have any questions about any sections of the design, please feel free to post your questions. I will be more than glad to answer.

RE: Dalotel
 

Hi Obi,

I am missing the dihedral sketch on the plans - I suppose the top is just flat, like on many of these birds?

Kris

RE: Dalotel
 

Great job, Obi. Since my old plans for the 40 Dalotel were kind of dog-eared, I ordered another set from MAN. Could you tell me what airfoil you used for the 40 sized ship. I want to make a built up wing since I'm going to electrify this one?
Thanks,
Frank

RE: Dalotel
 

Obi,

they're looking great! I look forward to the full size autocad versions.

A question: is there a specific set or type of retracts that you have used or would recommend for your design? I noticed that the gear legs are bent forward and was curious as to which retracts you might have used in a prototype - maybe you haven't had a chance to build one yet though.

Cheers, David.

RE: Dalotel
 

Hello everyone! And thank you for replying!

Yes, the top of the wing is flat, the height difference between the tip and root airfoils on the wing bottom make the dihedral. Thanks for pointing it out to me. Will include them in the finished plan.

The airfoil of the DALOTEL 40 is a Curare 40 airfoil. This is probably an NACA 0015, somewhat modified at the trailing edge for aileron construction simplicity. You can do the same. The airfoil of my DALOTEL 61 is an Eppler 475, and the trailing edge is also modified for construction reasons. You can use the E475 also for the 40, it has a blunt leading edge which makes for smoother pitch transition. If you are "electrifying" the design, I encourage you. Please post pictures of the design, even during construction. During the F3A regional finals in Taichung, Taiwan, in Oct. 20-25, 2008, there were 3 F3A electric pattern ships, and they were beating the "nitro" guys. They placed 3rd (Masato, Japan), 10th (Ramel, Thailand), and 14th (Sim, Singapore) out of 28 participants. (The first place was 3rd place World Champion Tetsuo Onda, so the quality of flying all around was truly exceptional).

The retracts are mechanical. The pattern I used for the plans was an OK Models retract set, but you can use others, like MK. The original set of retracts used in the 1986-7 Dalotel 61 was a set of Spring-Air (remember them?) retracts modified for mechanical operation. They worked OK, but didn't center too well. No end point adjustment in those days, so the battery drained due to servo stall, and my 60 crashed. I think I sulked for a week.

If you have experience with hydraulic or compressed air retract systems, you can modify the design accordingly.

If you can, get a set of titanium gear legs for the retracts. These used to be available for pattern planes. In Taiwan, I saw a beautiful set of carbon legs on one of the pattern planes. (Yes, retracts!) Sorry, I didnt ask the participant (Michael Ramel) where he got them. F3A pattern retracts may be "overkill" for this design, but they aren't much heavier than 60 sized units. You may want to consider this.

The gears are swept forward so that this would be 1) close to scale, and 2) the retract mechanism is in the thicker part of the wing. The retract servo is in a straight line to the retracts. If you have experience with a different set of retracts, you may modify the plans. Keep in mind that the wing planform is a swept back leading edge, and the retract location forward of the one shown on the plan may not have enough material to properly support the retract gear.

I wanted to have the retract mounts go across the gear so I could have a "balanced" (by strength) setup, but since the gear bent forward, the mounts go only up to the retract mechanism, thus relying on a "cantilever" effect for the integrity of the mounts. This should still be OK, as long as the fiberglass reinforcement (to be shown on the final plans) extends up to the mounts.

More info to come. I am glad I am getting very good comments from all of you, which will make me improve the plans.

Thanks again! obi mapua

RE: Dalotel
 

Obi, thanks for the info! I'll set up my profili program and use the Eppler airfoil.
Frank

RE: Dalotel
 

After waiting almost a month, my new Dalotel plans arrived. Wow- I ordered Kaos,Jr and Cloud Dancer 40 plans from RCM and got them in less than a week!(And at half the price of the Dalo plans!).
This is a pretty large fuse for a .40 sized airplane with a 54" wing. Lots of areas that the weight can be reduced for electric flight. No slam to Obi as he designed for glow!
If I can get some good, light 1/16" sheet, I'll just cut a foam wing. If not, I'll use my Profili program to make a built up wing. This Dalo will have retracts. The gear legs will have to be lengthened to allow for a 14" prop. Obi even designed a hatch in the fuel tank area that could be used for battery removal.
I have several power options that I'm thinks of. I plan to use 4 or 5 cells(6 if I go to A123's).
Frank

RE: Dalotel
 

That's great! Let us know your progress on the builds. Please post photos! obi