RCU Forums - Dalotel?

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Hello Gentlemen,

I've been given the opertunity of getting a Dalotel with a Rossi 61 in it, but I'm not very familiar with the plane. I've seen the pictures casniffer has in the Classic Pattern Image Base and I've seen one without a motor in person, but I've never seen one fly. I'd appreciate any information about the plane inself. I'd also appreciate any input on how the plane flies in comparison to some of the other classics...:eek:

Thaks guys..:D

Hey David,

you might find this thread a good place to start:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_60..._1/key_/tm.htm

Happy reading!

David.

David,

Thanks for the link...:D I think I'll go take a look at the plane to see what condition it's in. I hope the plane I was offered has retracts in it. If I decide to buy the plane, I'll post some pics of it. I'm also sure I will have more questions if I buy it too...

Cool David!

Do show us the model when you have it.

I've always wanted to build a Hanno championship aircraft and haven't yet. The Dalotel is an interesting subject; I think it embodies the first scale model that Hanno flew in tournament (at the TOC I believe). His oversize model was powered by a gear reduction OS Hanno. I think at the time, the FAI still hadn't lifted the displacement restriction on engines and OS produced a few geared 60's for a couple for years.

It's also possible that I might be mixing dates up and he flew it with a twin 2c 60. I've seen pictures of the nose but forget now. I think they might actually be in the thread I posted above.

David.

Edit: Yup, on looking at that nose of Hanno's model, it appears he's got a geared twin 60! Frankly the model is huge so it probably wouldn't have lifted off even with a geared 60. If only I could remember when the FAI restriction was lifted. Everyone here knows, its' just my feeble mind!

David,

You've got me thinking. If the plane is the 60 size, Is the Rossi 60 going to be enough motor? If not, I do have a NIB YS110 that I was going to put in a Hangar 9 Miss America, but I thought better of it. We'll see how it goes this weekend.

David

My dad had a Dalotel at one time, but not sure of the manufacturer. I can assure you that a .60 would have not flown it all that well. It was fiberglass and foam, and the wings had been honeycombed. It was LIGHT, but the drag from the fat fuse and thick wing would have been tough for a .60 to haul around.

David,

it all really depends on the scale of the model. Dalotels come in all sizes. However, I wouldn't put a FIRE engine into a Dalotel. The exhaust setup would be a little messy and you really don't want a tuned pipe on a scale model like that sticking out the side. I'd think a SE engine would be the way to go with a Pitts style muffler. A 4 stroke would of course also work nicely. The cleanest setup would be to go with an outrunner.

What I've come to appreciate over time about electrics (among other things) is that the startup cost for building an electric model is relatively low. A typical motor/ESC combo can cost half as much as a 2C (give or take) and a third or quarter of a 4C. This makes the build of the model cheaper. It's not until you actually need some fuel that electrics cost a tad more.

Lately, on larger models, particularly scale models, I've been thinking about powering electrics with Li-Fe cells. A123's provide peace of mind on expensive fuel, are inexpensive compared to Lipo's and the only main disadvantage (compared to Lipo's) of additional weight can usually be carried by the larger models. I've been deliberating for quite a while now on whether to setup a 30% CAP with and outrunner and LiFe's or whether to go the standard sensible route with gas. I guess I like the challenge of figuring out the electric route. 14s2p 4600 mAh A123's at 3000W should power up a 14 lb model effectively :D

David.

I think Hanno P used geared Webra .90s on that TOC Dalotel.

Terry in LP

I knew someone would have the answer, thanks Terry.

Interesting arrangement... do you know if it was an opposed geared twin 2c? It sure looks like it from the pictures.

David.

David,

Was done like this. Crude but effective :D

Ray

Ray,

great pictures!

Interesting setup. I noticed that the prop appears to be standard (not a flipped pusher) with CCW rotation. The gearing would then cause both engines to rotate CW - contrary to the standard direction! I wonder if anything special had to be done to the porting.

I wonder how this power plant compared to a current Moki 1.8 or even an OS 1.6

David.

i absolutely love the moki 2.10, what a great engine. very similar, of course, to the 1.80.

Hi Guys,
First, the 60 sized version of the Dalotel originally referred to in this post could be a Zimpro version (very nice ARC kt) or a Dick Hanson version (which was what Chip Hyde won the '84 nats with using a rear exhaust Rossi). Dick actually produced the Dalotel in 2 sizes originally (60 and 120) which were all wood construction (sheeted foam flying surfaces). He also produced a fiberglass and foam version of the 60 sized Dalotel. Dick liked the design so much he later produced another pattern version of the Dalotel (72" length and at least that much span) with plug-in wings and wood fuselage (I have a kit - the fuselage is remarkably light). The fuselage volume/lateral area was much greater than pattern ships of the time (around 1995) making it a bit of a precursor to current 'widebody' designs.
Prettner's TOC Dalotel was kitted by Joe Bridi (I have one of those, too). It was about 68" long with an 1100"sq wing (pretty big!! - those geared 91s must have worked pretty hard, I believe he spun an 18" prop). Joe Bridi must have owned a balsa forest in Ecuador as he packed the kit with wood. His version of Prettner's Dalotel had bolt-on tail surfaces and plug-in wings (pre wing tube; Joe used the captured spar approach and lots of plywood). The design, in my opinion is way too heavy in stock configuration (the kit box and contents weigh about 20 lbs), but could be easily built in 10-11lb range.
Great flying airplane!
-Will B.
PS I saw Chip fly his Dalotel at the '85 nats - very impressive

Will,

I have one of the Zimpro ARC Dalotels (in box) and it looks more like a .90/1.20 2 stroke size plane. Around 850+ square inches and 69" span. At least that's what I plan to use on 'em. I think Dennis made a .60 size too. Also have Zimpro Chipmunk (not Super - under construction) and Zlin 526 ARC kits. Both ~72"x ~900 sqare inch planes. Very nice wood/foam ARC kits with f/g cowls. Have flown one of the Zlins and maybe one of these days will fly these others.

Terry in LP

Hi Terry,
I wish the Zimpro kits were still available. Nice size, quick to build and excellent flying characteristics. I've always liked the MK semi-scale aerobatic kits which were a little smaller than the Zimpro kits. Of course Dick Hanson's Dalotel flies great and I had one of his wood Zlinns which I really enjoyed. Sounds like you have a nice collection of the Zimpro kits - enjoy!!
-Will

Zimpro Dalotel...

Anathabubba,

Are you going to retain the Zimpro Dalotel or would you consider a sale or loan?

Rusty Dose

These Zimpro kits are keepers Rusty. I already have the plan of attack, engines, etc to get them finished. Just need to do it.

Terry in LP

Good afternoon Gent's

My Dalotel adventure is temporarily on hold. The owner of the plane is currently out of town so I won't be able to go look at the plane until he gets back. Keep the info coming....:D

Bridi Dalotel...?

Flywilly,

Good for you to have the Bridi Dalotel. I wonder if a YS 1.70/1.60 would fly the monster around? If you find your interest in releasing the kit...my number is listed below. The Dalotel is one the list as a Hansen Slim Zlin if anyone has an extra one in the same basic category of high performance sorta scale precision aerobatic models.

Rusty Dose
Team Futaba
Team YS Parts and Service
(312) 580-6838

Good evening Gentlemen,

I am now the proud owner of a Dalotel.....:D The plane appears to be very well built. It has a built-up fuse with fully sheeted foam core wings. The plane only has very minor hangar rash which is a miracle since it was built approximately 10-15 years ago. Most of it can probably be fixed by injecting small amounts of water in the dented areas under the covering and using my covering iron to heat up the balsa so it can expand back into shape. I will make my repairs before I fly it. If it turns out that I like how it flies and decide to keep it, I will strip the covering off and do a frame up restoration on it next winter. The plane has the following dimensions;

Wingspan - 68"
Wing Area - +/- 816 square inches
Fuselage length - 58" (Including the rudder)

The plane does have retracts. I'm not sure what kind they are, but my friend who used to fly competition pattern years ago that went with me said they looked like Pro Line retracts. The retracts have painted black mounting brackets with a machined metal mechanism and they are servo actuated. The retracts also have a shiny metal cover that screws into the black mounting frame and extends inward with a hole and slot for the gear legs and coil spring.

I was also surprised to see that the motor was indeed a piped Rossi FIRE either 60 or 61. The motor also has an in-flight adjustable needle valve. The neat thing is, the builder concealed the pipe inside the fuse by dividing the inside of the fuse lengthwise with a piece of plywood that runs from the firewall to the former at the trailing edge of the wing. He then mounted the radio gear on one side of the plywood and the pipe on the other side with the exhaust exit behind the wing. There is also a plate with air exit holes where the pipe turns down through the bottom of the fuse so air can escape to help keep the pipe cooler (I'm assuming).

I do have a few questions to start with for all you guy's, especially those of you who are familiar with older Futaba servo's. My questions are as follows;

What are the recommended throws for the control surfaces?

Where is the recommended CG for the plane.

The aileron servos are Futaba FP-S28's and the elevator and rudder servos are Futaba FP-S48's. What are the torgue values for these servos & can they be operated at 6 volts? The reason for the last question is that the plane has a 6 volt 1100 ma NiCad battery in it.

Since this will by my first plane with a piped motor. Can anyone give me an idea where I can learn more about using tuned pipes and how exactly they work. I'd like to learn what I can about them and how to set them up correctly to get the most out of them.

I am planning on charging the receiver battery tonight and taking the plane to the field tomorrow to see if I can get the engine running. I will need to stop by the LHS and pick up some 5% nitro fuel for the motor because I doubt the Rossi will appreciate Powermaster 20/20 fuel which is what I currently have. I will also take my camera and get some pictures to help you guys assist me in the future. I will post my pictures here on Monday.

Have a good weekend everyone, and I hope the weather will be nice enough for everyone to get some flying in tomorrow and Sunday...:D:D

you might as well pop the head off and check for shim stack, if its got more than one in , i wouldnt be afraid to run 20/20 fuel in it, the 128's and 148's will handle 6 volts just fine. they are if my memory serves me about 45 ounces of torque., i flew a rossi powered kaos hundreds of flights on a five cell pack with no problems what so ever.

"I was also surprised to see that the motor was indeed a piped Rossi FIRE either 60 or 61. The motor also has an in-flight adjustable needle valve. The neat thing is, the builder concealed the pipe inside the fuse by dividing the inside of the fuse lengthwise with a piece of plywood that runs from the firewall to the former at the trailing edge of the wing. He then mounted the radio gear on one side of the plywood and the pipe on the other side with the exhaust exit behind the wing. There is also a plate with air exit holes where the pipe turns down through the bottom of the fuse so air can escape to help keep the pipe cooler (I'm assuming)."

Didn't DH do this trick on his Dalotels?

Terry in LP

Well fella's,

I got so excited about the plane last night and today, I couldn't wait till Monday to post the pictures I have...:) I have to apologize for the quality of one of the interior shots, but I was holding the camera straight above the plane and I couldn't see the preview when I took the picture. The pictures are also a higher resolution than I intended to use so it may take a few posts to show them all.

Doxilla,
As you can see, the plane is a little different than the one you showed plans for in an earlier post, but it's kind of funny, the trim scheme on the rudder on my plane is the same as (or very similar to) your last picture...:eek:

Well I've got some bad news guys. I cannot load even one picture so I'll have to try again Monday...[:'(]

Yup, That has to be one of Dick's Dalotels.