Building The Arrow
 

Has anyone Scratch Built a "Arrow" from the MAN plan ?

I have a Starting point I bought a nice finished foam wing with minor cosmetic dammage, for $5.00, at a swap meet :- It matches the
Man plan exactly .

The wing has a nice fiberglass pan attached so I suspect it came from a glass kit that crashed.

I have the plan and a copy of the Man Issue but the construction article is confusing http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...used_smile.gif

I am going to start by cutting out all the bits out that I can see on the plan and go from there.

The tail plane is a bit of a issue, the origional was a removable setup http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...msn/crying.gif what is the best way to go here ?

Regards

Johnkpap


</p>

RE: Building The Arrow
 

John, there is an RCM&amp;E version of this plan, identical except for the built up wing and tailplane, and showing either removable tailplane halves or fixed. The belly pan on this version is built up balsa, so maybe you have one of the foam/glass kits that proliferated after the plans were published. I don't think the construction article in either magazine was what could be called 'comprehensive', you were expected to know what to do if you were considering building one of these things. If it flys anything like my Atlas you will be a happy man...
Evan, WB #12.

RE: Building The Arrow
 

This should help.
<font size="3"><font color="#336699"><span class="title">Arrow</span>
</font></font>Description:This World Champion Pattern airplane by Wolfgang Matt features such items as an enclosed tuned pipe and a variable-pitch prop. The balsa/plywood/foam construction is in a typical pattern format.
Additional Information: WS: 63 in.; L: 54 in.; Area: 713 sq. in.; Engine: 120 4S or .60 2S; 4 to 7 channels; 1 sheet.
Difficulty Level: LD3
Item Number: X06802 FSP06802
$19.95
http://secure.rcstore.com/pcd/eServC...aVN1YlRlcm09MA==

https://secure.palmcoastd.com/ows-im...m/fsp06802.jpg

RE: Building The Arrow
 

Yes I have the MAN Plan and It matches my foam wing.

I am going to try and Builda Balsa Fuse to fit, the wing It has has a few minor issues &gt;&gt;A few dents and hanger rash and a slight crack near one wheel hole. nothing that can not be fixed.

I am going to start by cutting out the Ply formers and two fuse sides and the Engine mount rails and go from there.

once I have it to that stage I hope things will become more clear.

My power plant will be a almost new OS 61V with a OS pump I have a choice of a 7M and a 7D carb, I am going to fire It up to make sure it is good soon, to see what carb works the best
with this pump.

Thanks for the support

Johnkpap

RE: Building The Arrow
 

Thank you for starting this thread John. I have been hoping someone here would build an Arrow. There must have been a healthy competitive spirit between Matt and Prettner. Curare is, of course, a poisonous plant that was used on arrow tips in South America. I'm sure that's why Matt chose this name for his plane.

Calling Rougedog! Did you ever draw the fuse to match your excellent built-up wing drawings?

David

RE: Building The Arrow
 

Ok this is what I have worked out

My OS61 V will fit fine but If I use the pump it will be a tight fit &gt;&gt; not alot of room !!! , I may have to use just presure feed from the pipe,

I have a Tuned pipe that is a exact fit even though the back is no the Squared off type used on the origional model

AMACheadder will also fit ( I will need to cut it down)

My Rohm retracts will also fit, this front one looks just the job.

I also have a Fuel tank that will fit as per the plan.

Now all I have to do is run the OS61 On the pipe and make sure the fuel pump works without the return as I only have a 7M or a 7D carb

Then its time to start cutting wood.

Thanks for the support


Johnkpap

RE: Building The Arrow
 

You can move the firewall back a bit or extend the nose ring to accomodate the pump. Couldn't you? </p>

Terry in LP</p>

RE: Building The Arrow
 

Some 7D's came with a restrictor in the barrel for use with smaller engines. If you don't want to use the pump you might be able to make one from aluminum tubing.

David

RE: Building The Arrow
 

<span style="font-size: larger">Raindave,
Keen insight into why Matt named his plane "Arrow"....I never made the connection. Back somewhere around 1976-77, I saw Matt fly his Super Arrow at the TOC in Las Vegas.Matt took Second Place.Hanno Prettner flew his Curare to First Place. I watched them for two days. Prettner and Matt were the best RC aerobatics pilots I've ever seen. They really were "That Good".
Regards
JC</span></p>

RE: Building The Arrow
 

As Well as the 7D carb and pump, I also have the Standard 7M carb and a standard backplate for the 61V, I also have a second 61V but this one has done alot of work, I bought this one for the 7D and the Pump.

What I am gping to do is :&gt; Run up the engine on my bench with a standard 7M carb if this is all good.

:&gt;Fit the pump see if the engine is reliable with a pump feed

:&gt;Then fit the 7D carb and see how this goes.


From these results decide what would be the most stable combo for the arrow.

I have also worked out by fitting a DUBROplastic Spinner I can move the engine forward by 1/4 of a inch this will give me the pump room I need http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f.../thumbs_up.gif

I will post results from my tests soon.

Johnkpap


</p>

RE: Building The Arrow
 

With a slightly lengthened engine compartment the plane could use either engine setup.</p>

</p>

Terry in LP </p>

RE: Building The Arrow
 

this is a fascinating topic that keeps resurfacing. As a boy Iremember being read to about the use of curare (also known as "ampi"and many other words) by native peoples of South America. Being at the age Iwas and somehow having landed what was essentially a piece of bathroom copper pipe, Istarted to make paper cones from letter size paper cut in three. These would enter the pipe and briefly thereafter would be shot at great speed at some "moving object" from far away where I couldn't be seen. One of my fondest childhood memories.

Primarily in Colombia, native tribes used to apply Curare to darts that would be shot with bamboo canes. While Ialways wondered about the connection between Prettner's Curare and Matt's Arrow, it struck me later than Matt must have used the mythological Greek connotation of the "poisoned arrow" rather than that from South America. From the little Iknow, Arrow's per se were never used in South America with Curare. In other parts of the world (e.g., Africa), however, derivatives and/or variations of Curare were commonly used with Arrows. Also, the Curare that was used in Colombia was animal (frog) derived as opposed to plant derived.

Here's an interesting Wikipedia extract:

In South America, tribes such as the Noanam&aacute; Choc&oacute; and Ember&aacute; Choc&oacute; of western Colombia dip the tips of their blowgun darts in the poison found on the skin of three species of Phyllobates, a genus of poison dart frog. In northern Choc&oacute; Department, Phyllobates aurotaenia is used, while P. bicolor is used in Risaralda Department and southern Choc&oacute;. In Cauca Department, only P. terribilis is used for dart making. The poison is generally collected by roasting the frogs over a fire, but the batrachotoxins in P. terribilis are powerful enough that it is sufficient to dip the dart in the back of the frog without killing it.

Power to the Arrow build! (I look forward to getting to mine one day...)

David.

RE: Building The Arrow
 

The link to the plan of the arrow is :-
http://www.trentonrcflyers.com/patte...structions.htm

Thanks CAsniffer

I have Scanned the Arrow Build from my copy MAN

I have cut out a basic set of paper templates, and have some Idea of how to build the plane now.

I have found one or two small errors on the plan the lower part of former position BB shows a aera of ply ??? Ithis is in the middle of the wheel area !!!

I suspect Former CC should have the Ply area.

I will start cutting out a Kit of parts on my band saw soon

Johnkpap

RE: Building The Arrow
 

More pages

RE: Building The Arrow
 

More Pages

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RE: Building The Arrow
 

Last Two

RE: Building The Arrow
 

Back in about 1988 a freind and myself bought a couple of fibre glass Arrows and powered them with Irvine 61re's with MK retracts.
The kit was a local "knock off" and came with foam cores. I also got a copy of the original plans, instead of the foam core tail plane, I made a built up one from the plan as a one piece unit.
Mine required a lot of lead in the nose to ballance, so keep the tail end light, it was my first pattern model and was a fantastic rolling model, oftern thought of doing a light one with fixed gear and a sports motor just to re-live the old days, good luck. Matt

RE: Building The Arrow
 

I have posted this before, but here is mine just as the painting was being finished. Matt

RE: Building The Arrow
 

The Arrow was also featuredin the UK magazine RCM&amp;E, so this may be of interest.

Ray

RE: Building The Arrow
 

Thanks for the Mag info RFJ

Any info is helpful on this one :&gt; As I am finding out this is not in the "Easy to build" List, well I just hope it will fly nice.

This build will take some time, but It looks as if I have most of the important things sorted, I will fire up the Engine soon .

I should have some parts cut soon I am just cleaning a spot in my Shedand taking stock of my wood.

Johnkpap

RE: Building The Arrow
 

Good research David! Wikipedia is no doubt a great source of info. Individual entries are usually edited by multiple parties, and are kept more reliable than a lot of of other web info. But, even though there is a ton of interlinking between related entries, you don't see enough editing of bodies of related entries as a whole. So, depending on how one enters Wikipedia, conflicting info can be found:

"...Curare [kew rah ree] [1] is a common name for various arrow poisons originating from South America....

...Curare has been used historically as a paralyzing poison by South American indigenous people. The prey is killed by arrows or blowgun darts that are dipped in curare, which leads to asphyxiation as the respiratory muscles of the hunted animal are unable to contract....

...[tubocurare] is one of the chemicals that can be obtained from curare, itself an extract of Chondrodendron tomentosum, a plant found in South American jungles which is used as a source of arrow poison."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curare

From a historical point of view it would also be interesting to know how much Prettner and Matt knew about South American hunting practices and where they got their info. Maybe their interests derived from popular art and literature (sort of like trying to learn about American Indians from watching Hollywood westerns).[X(] [:o]

Anyway, looking at the RCM&E article I spied a familiar engine. The Webra 1030 with a Dynamix, just like the one I was testing last week. I'm getting more interested in building an Arrow. I would consider renaming it the Dart, but Lanier already grabbed that name.:D

David

RE: Building The Arrow
 

Hi Johnkpap,</p>

   I built 2 Arrows from scratch from the MAN plans back in the early '80s. Cut my own cores, but bought the fiberglass top decks from Indy R/C which was the MK importer. A friend built the MK Arrow kit. They are the same dimensionally. I powered mine with an unpumped OS 61VF with the 7D carb and the insert. The 7M carb also works very well. The tank placement does not require a pump and mine certainly never needed one. IF you use the pump and move the firewall back you will have problems fitting the rettract nosegear without cutting into the wing. Of course you can build it with fixed gear and will fly great, too! I modified the top aft deck of the fuselage to allow for longer pipe length as I wanted to run an 11x9 prop - a bit quieter. Actually a pretty easy build. Any questions, just post here!</p>

Enjoy,</p>

Will B.</p>

RE: Building The Arrow
 

David,

Ihave come to learn about that issue with Wikipedia too. I was curious about the Dart aspect of the use of Curare and never imagined that some of it was animal derived - always assuming that plants were the exclusive source. Iwas also told as a boy that it was in the "jungles of Brazil" that it was used but I've yet to find any reference to Brazil. Mind you, borders such as the one between Colombia and Brazil were probably of little interest (or discernible difference) to the people who used Curare and Darts.

Having an awareness of how education proceeded in Europe during my father's generation (that of Prettner and Matt) with all the Greek and Latin that was taught on a regular basis, Isuspect that the two were not in the dark as to the history, origin and use of poisons such as Curare. Perhaps one day, I'll get my neighbor to translate into German (out of politeness) a simple letter to Prettner asking him about this story. While Prettner's Curare had "rotationally symmetric" tail surfaces (anhedral) that are reminiscent of the feathers on the back of arrows to insure tracking stability, Isuspect that Hanno named his pattern ship Curare, among other reasons, due to the shape of it's nose. Hanno rarely used spinners prior to the Magic and the prop nut and shape of the fuse nose does convey the image of a Dart. On the other hand, Matt's Arrow does look much more like one despite its flat stab.

The Arrow/Magic era (they competed at the same time although Hanno's Magic was down in Acapulco '79 due to over heating in the first Magic prototype which didn't have the inverted engine) must have been the height of classic pattern sophistication - variable pitch props, in flight mixture control, double tuned pipes, flaps, spoliers, dual flaperon servos, etc.

Unfortunately, the word "Dart"in English is not a great word for a pattern ship to my mind (Ihad the same idea). But you might consider renaming it the Richtungspfeil http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...sn/biggrin.gif

Whatever the name, I do think that your 1030 should go into one!

Now... I wouldn't be surprised if you fellas down under have a variation of Arrow's and Curare! That pumped 61 VF is going to spool up the Arrow into the lower troposphere! If only the cutoff date for SPAwas Jan 1st, 1981...

David.

RE: Building The Arrow
 

For whatever reason, sometimes when I download JPG's from RCU Iend up with a squashed photo which results from the portrait photo being squeezed into a landscape aspect ratio. This happened with John's MAN article photo upload. This might be due to RCUattempting to fit A4 sizing into a Letter AR - dunno.

Isorted things out in Illustrator and created a PDF of each article. For those interested, you can download the two attachements as "Arrow Article MAN.pdf" (7 pages) &amp; "Arrow Article RCME.pdf" (3 pages), respectively (right click and save as).

David.