RE: Deception Build
 

Ed,

How about an update on the deception project?

Greg

RE: Deception Build
 

Hey Greg,
I'm getting back to it today. I just had to take a break as I have been living in the basement for the past six months. I did manage to glass the stab and it is ready to mount. I'll post pics later today.

RE: Deception Build
 

I have the stab complete and glassed w/ the elevators shaped and hinged but not yet cut to size until after the stab is mounted. I had to make some new wing hold down blocks as the kit's were to short. I didn't have any 1/2" x 1" maple so I just laminated two pieces of 1/4" 5 ply together and cut to size. Since this is plywood, I will be using threaded inserts. I have the stab shimed in place square, level and at 0 degree incedence. I will make up a slurry of 30 min. epoxy and milled fibers to set it in place tonight.

RE: Deception Build
 

Ed,

I've used plywood for wing hold down blocks many times without a failure. Have you had a problem with them in the past which brought you to the threaded inserts? I'm still running a little behind you with my Deception build, so I haven't tackled the wing hold downs yet. The epoxy "slurry", do you just shred some FG strands through it or is it something more complicated? Do you thin the epoxy at all?

Did you put any doublers inside the fuselage? If so, please describe.

Greg

RE: Deception Build
 

It is just one of things my Dad taught me before that you don't tap and thread plywood. It doesn't hold the threads as well as solid maple or oak. The only doublers are the ones for the hold down blocks. I don't thin my epoxy as I will want a stiff mix to pack inside stab/fuse joint. I use finishing resin w/ micro bollons for fillets and again I won't thin it. I may try some micro filler from NAPA that a scale modeler uses in a scale build thread "Ramone Torres's 1/5 scale T-34 by VBDRIVER" for the fillets. It is supposed to be easy to sand. I know I show a lot of GP products in my pics. I hope the moderator don't mind. I'm lucky to have a VERY WELL stocked LHS a few miles from my house.:D

RE: Deception Build
 

Greg,

those are two great products that Ed is using.

The finishing resin is pretty thin - it flows quite a bit so you can thicken it up to consistency and hardness with the milled fibers. Once you get it in the stab joint (for example), you can smooth it out at the stab/fuse junction with a finger dipped in alcohol. This just helps to glide the finger along the material and produces a nice U shaped fillet. Same goes with say a wing fairing fillet that you apply atop a ply guide and tristock.

You might want to use a disposable glove when you do this (I've started to out of consciousness although for years I never did).

Very nice work Ed!

David.

P.S. I see that is actually 30 min epoxy not finishing resin (~60 min epoxy) but either one will do.

RE: Deception Build
 

Ed,

I had never seen or even heard about "milled" fiberglass before. Thanks for mentioning it. What does the stuff look like? How finely "milled" is it? Does it add strength or just substance? I do use the same epoxy you've pictured and agree that it's as good as it gets, but did purchase some "Aeropoxy" (as recommended by many, but haven't tried it yet) for the actual glassing to come. Did an Internet search for hard maple 1/2" stock and didn't find a good source. I did find some heavier stock, but I don't have access to a planer. I'll keep looking, but I may have to go with your approach.

Unfortunately, my LHS is about 50 miles from my home. I keep trying to convince them to open a "branch" in our area. There's probably 100 people flying RC in my local area (that I know of), and no LHS closer than a 1 1/2 hour drive (each way). Ed, I'd like to make a one-time picture post (unless you'd like to see more of what I'm doing). Hope you don't mind.... I want to respect that this is your thread, and I'm not planning to start one.

David, these are for you..... As you can see, just started framing up the fuselage (just a trial fit... no glue as of these pictures - glued now, and currently adding triangular stock).


Greg

RE: Deception Build
 

Milled fibers are ground to 2 mills. long. They add a lot of strenth to a joint. I know, I had to cut my stab back out as it was off center by 3/16 in the TE. All I can figure is that I move it while centering it up with the nose center line. I was watching the forest but missed the tree type of thing. It is NOW dead on and triple-triple checked. It is embarrassing but I caught it before I moved onto the wing setup.

RE: Deception Build
 

Wow, I don't envy you having to cut out and reset that stab. I committed a similar boo boo yesterday. I forgot to create a solid base for the dural gear just in front of my wing. I'm going to have to cut out a section of the triangular strips and the tank floor to put in some ply to support the heavier gear mount. Fortunately, I haven't attached the bottom nose block as yet..... but I'll be real careful about centering the stab. Thanks.

By the way, how are you going to fabricate the rudder linkage, over the stab or under? Will you snap a photo of that detail?

Greg

RE: Deception Build
 

The stab went back in O.K.. The scary thing is when I laid the wing in the saddle. It fit. The incedence was right on at 0 degrees. The measurements between stab and wing were within 1/16" of being square and the saddle needed sanded just a touch on one side to be level. Today the "Balsa Gods" smiled on me LOL. You can never have enough clamps when you build. :D I'm going stock on the rudder hook up for a cleaner look.

RE: Deception Build
 

I just noticed that neither the plans or the magazine construction notes discuss the control linkages. By "cleaner look", I assume you mean under the stab. That would be my preference too. A split elevator pushrod, and using a nose gear steering arm on the 1/8" wire rudder torque rod/tail wheel mount/axle with the rudder pushrod.

I'm surprised to find that I've got a significant gap to fill with my wing saddle, even though I used a plywood template for my root rib to shape the fuselage wing saddle cutout. Oh well, that's what "building from scratch" is all about I guess.:eek:

I'm gonna order some of that "milled fiberglass".

Greg

RE: Deception Build
 

Greg,

the stock rudder control horn is pretty simple. Just like an aileron torque rod. The rod sticks out (the right side usually) at the hinge line underneath the stab. You then just run a pushrod to it. This, of course, if you built the rudder per Jim's plans. If you have a full height rudder, then it's a non issue.

I guess a picture would help.

Glad to hear that I'm not the only one with stab issues...:eek: I left mine to set while I went to pick up my son at school - wrong! Oh, it's bang on alright - just a bit canted down on one side... :) I got discouraged and let it ice for a while. I guess it's been a year now. [:-]

David.

RE: Deception Build
 

David,

My rudder will be as per plan. I understand the "torque rod" approach, but what I think I want to do is extend the torque rod all the way through and have it also serve as the tail wheel strut. Hence my idea to use a nose gear steering arm at the appropriate location below the stab. Anything come to mind that would make this a problem (except for the complexity of bending this thing accurately)? Maybe if I could find an axle for a 1/8th inch rod.....

Greg

RE: Deception Build
 

Greg,

sent you PM.

David.

RE: Deception Build
 

I'm glad I took vacation this week, we have been getting hammered by snow for the past week. Here is a shot of my 21 year old snow thrower, Alex:D. The wing is mounted and inserts put in. Watch when you lay out for the fillets to account for the curve of the saddle. I made a template and there was a 1/4" difference from the plan. Notice the 3/16 layout line they call for.

RE: Deception Build
 

edp,

Beautifully built so far! Hope it will fly as good as You have built it. Snow... yes it has been plenty this winter also here (in Sweden) - I can not remember I have seen so much snow in my 48 year life span. I have been skiing a lot this winter and that is great. But to plough away all the snow around the house is no fun at all... Good luck with the Deception build!

/Bo

RE: Deception Build
 

Thanks Bo,
Here are the fillets going on and in place. I will have the linkages under the stab.

RE: Deception Build
 

Here the wing fillet is roughed in. The holes in tail are for alignment dowels for the fin. It is supposed to be a butt glue joint only. Here the rudder tube has been made up then glued in placel

RE: Deception Build
 

Alignment dowels for the rudder....GREAT IDEA! I'm going to use that. What are you forming the fillets with?

Greg

RE: Deception Build
 

Finish resin and micro balloons for the base. I will finish off the fillets w/ some NAPA micro filler. It is a two part product. I will post pics after I pick some up. Laying out for the nose wheel well. Tomorrow I will glue four blocks together and form an airplane. I must be getting close to being done, there are not that many pieces left in the box.:D

RE: Deception Build
 

My color scheme. Got to love a paint program to lay things out.

RE: Deception Build
 

Very sharp Ed. I like it.

I'm currently at a standstill while I try to make final decisions on how to set up the rudder/tail wheel and the main gear. I think I've got it in my head, but reluctant to start cutting balsa, and probably going to be away for the weekend. Also, think I have a local source for some hard maple (actually pecan - he says its harder than maple, I'm wondering if there any other issues like "glue-ability" - doesn't some "nut" wood have a oil component that might make gluing an issue?) for the wing hold-down blocks.

Greg

RE: Deception Build
 

I know with teak you have to wipe it down w/ acetone. All you can do is glue some sample pieces to see what works best. As for the rudder/wheel item, can you make a torque tube/ axle arrangement and go through the rudder base?

RE: Deception Build
 

You need to shape the nose down to profile. Getting ready to carve a airplane. Nose blocks are preped.

RE: Deception Build
 

Ed,

let the transformation begin!

I thought you might like to see this post:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9517723

I made my cowl in much the same way. It required much less elbow grease. Actually here's a link to how I did it:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8403054

Then again, I tend not to use the Dremel much if I can avoid it.

David.