astrohog

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Balsadust and everyone,

The purpose of my posts here is not to lay blame or hate on any given flying style or type of aircraft or individual. I enjoy them all and believe that we all have equal rights to fly in the style we each prefer. BUT.....we MUST understand each type and learn how to share the airspace regardless of the venue, be it Joe Nall or our home flying field. I primarily enjoy flying GS 3D airplanes. When I arrive at the field, it is fairly easy to assess the other folks that are there and the types and styles of aircraft and flying that they each enjoy. I can generally break it down to a few different styles/types: electric/foam 3D, electric/foam circle-flyers/warbirds, glow circle flyers/trainers, GS 3D, GS circle flyers. It is not too hard to coordinate flights with similar styles of aircraft/pilot skills so that everybody gets a fair share of airspace where they can fly their preferred style in comfort and safety. There are generally only a couple of types of people that can ruin this for everybody and they are equally damaging to the vibe at the field on any given day. They are the: 1) electric/foamy guy that brings 100 charged battery packs to the field and wants to fly every one of them, one after another, and 2) the 3D gas and hover, gas and hover, gas and hover, gas and hover guy. When either one of these guys shows up at the field it is easy to get into the frame of mind that Balsadust alluded to when he said, "Why should everyone else stop flying just so QueQu and David can fly?". Well, the answer iissss....(drum roll please....)....just wait until they are done and wait your turn OR wait until they are done and approach them to have a civil discussion like, "I would like to fly my warbird in circles and I am not comfortable doing so while you are hovering, can we coordinate our flights so we all get equal airtime?"

I have NEVER seen a mid-air OR a FLAMING internet thread occur when using this approach!

PROBLEM SOLVED!

Regards,

Astro

TheEdge

My Feedback: (788)

[QUOTE=balsadust74;12050743]I do agree with Astro that had I did what he said the hole thing could have been avoided. However there was a line just of 3D flying why weren't they flying from that line. Would it be right for me to go to the 3D line and fly my warbird? I don't think so. Why should everyone else stop flying just so QueQu and David can fly?[/QUOTE]

Some very interesting reading and from what I am gathering from this is that the majority of folks have already been suggesting that what you just stated yourself is perhaps what is behind all of this

Why should everyone else stop flying just so QueQu and David can fly?

What's done is done but its really what you can take away from this, knowing what you do now, by asking, what would you have done differently and what will you do differently if there is a next time.

balsadust74

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The last several posts are the best and hope that everyone including myself take something away from it that can benefit ourselves or others in the future.

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

WOW! Lots of perspective here. Some calm heads and others not so much. I am not going to take any sides but do want to thank Gavin for a calm report from his perspective.

Please be respectful to each other and stop the name calling. Changing S's to Z's so the word will be allowed is still against RCU policy. So if you want your point to be expressed and you post left in tact refrain from breaking the rules.

David

balsadust74

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Thank you Dave.

tes21966

Sounds like there was a demolition derby going on at the same time the Daytona 500 was being ran on the same track. Spotters or no spotters it just seems to me that 2 well known pilots, Quique and the Ribbe Dude) walked up and said we are here now so bow down and yield the floor.

Sekhet

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Wow! After reading this thread, I must have been at a different event. After spending most of my civilian life investigating full scale aircraft accidents I think I know what I saw.
I was there, I witnessed both mishaps, and in my humble opinion ALL of the pilots involved where in some way at fault.
And that’s all I have to say about that!

balsadust74

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I am sorry I fail to see where I said that my actions didn't play a role in the event. I believe several times I stated what I could have done differently.

lopflyers

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This thread is more interesting than the NBA Finals.
God Almighty, if this wasnt an internet discussion there would be blood here.
Where are the mods?

scale only 4 me

My Feedback: (158)

finished reading,
From your first post I too assumed you were part of the original 5 foamies,,

Reinforces my thought,,, I'll not fly at an event like that

balsadust74

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Again I was not involved in any formation flying with Fred or anyone else at Nall, I was flying solo lo every time. Are you sure you are talking about the same two crashes? If a plane is over the runway it is not safe to attempt landing until the runway is clear which clearly it wasn't.

Sekhet

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I’m not trying to get under your skin, in fact, thank you for acting like an adult and admitting things could have been done differently.
I was just stating my opinion with no intentions of slighting anyone.

scale only 4 me

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Yeap,, I didn't see the additional page of posts

balsadust74

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My point is there is far to many mid airs at Nall most of which could have been avoided if commons sense, common courtesy were used and if everyone played by the rules. It is easy to see the difference between pilots that have flown at big evens and those that haven't. Believe me the last thing I wanted was to have my plane distoryed and damage Quequi's. If I would have had more time to react I would have put my plane in the dirt if it would have prevented the mid air.

balsadust74

My Feedback: (3)

I would like to say I am sorry for how I handled my self for thoughs present after the crash but when someone got in my Dad face and acted like they were going to hit him, at that point I lost control, for that I am sorry.

init4fun

Ok , now I'm confused . Again .

Are you Gavin Woodruff ? Because in his original post , Fred Culbertson states that he lost a formation flying showplane to a collision with Mr Dribbe , and that two hours later his showteam mate Gavin Woodruff lost another P51 showplane to a collision with Mr. QQ ..... That post is thankfully preserved in post two of this thread , and I believe most here thought we were discussing the two accidents Mr. Culbertson was posting about .

PS , I think your right on track with the thought of running all flying lines in the way the main line was run , allowing chaos is far too risky in the lawsuit happy times we now live in .

scale only 4 me

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So don't they have a Flight Line Boss at each strip??? No limits on how many planes in the air?? Nothing?

balsadust74

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I am Gavin Woodruff, why Fred stated I was a teammate I am not sure other that we both were flying FMS Mustangs. At times I have flown in demos for FMS and am currently a team pilot for a 352 tribue team where we repaint our FMS Mustangs to represent a pilot of our choosing. The 352 team didn't fly at Nall for several reasons, safety was one of them. The 352 team is not sponcered by FMS.

balsadust74

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There is a line boss and control at the main line but I didn't see one in two days on the electric line. There are 6 pilot stations at each line but offen pilots will fly not standing at a station.

balsadust74

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Both of the Mid airs discused in this tread were lost after 5pm, It is unsupervised by staff after 5pm.

balsadust74

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I would say that the main line or as they call it the "Classic" is probably the closest suppervised line and the safest of all of them, most of the airplanes on this line are 50cc or bigger, most much bigger. There was 2 flight lines for electric planes this year, one for scale and one for sport fliers. It was easy to over fly the sport fliers line and my sporter stated that I had over flown their line at lest on one pass during a earlier flight in the day. The electric lines are not for the faint of heart. The 3D line didn't seem like there was not a lot of supervision but they didn't seem to need it either with everyone being mindful of other in the air.,

balsadust74

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The pond was not supervised but did have 6 new flight stations. Flying at the pond seemed crasy at best but I didn't hear of any mid airs there.

init4fun

Thank You sir for patiently explaining to me which was which as far as the collisions go . It reads in Mr Culbertson's opening post as if you were flying with his team and hence the confusion on my part . You have done well with the description of the conditions leading up to the crashes and kudos to you for being man enough to say , "sure , everybody flying bore a bit of responsibility" , cause that's the bottom line here . Everyone who flew in the chaos added to it . Your rational response is worlds away from Mr Culbertson's demands that his model be replaced , especially since it sure sounds as if he may be a touch more at fault , for trying to Buzz the hovering aircraft his plane ultimately hit .....

balsadust74

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Another error in Fred's post was that both his airplane and mine we lost on Friday, not Thursday as he had stated. Fred was not present when my plane hit Quique's and didn't learn of my accident until 5 days later.

init4fun

It sounds as though Fred was trying to lump both of the accidents together , trying to establish a "pattern of guilt" , and had to get "creative with the facts" in order for the facts to fit his agenda . No wonder why he tried so ardently to kill this conversation , he out and out lied in his post , used your name in his lie , and stopped responding to the lie he couldn't sweep under the rug . I really do appreciate you coming here and setting the record straight because Fred's post really didn't pass the "smell test" and you have filled in the missing pieces well .

PS , you do have my sympathies for the loss of your plane . Midairs suck , that's for sure ....