MrSteve09

Hi All,...

It seems I've started a control line revolution at my local R/C flying field!! This past summer when my two boys, ages six and eight, came with me to the flying field I've also brought along their 1/2A control line planes. When the club members see they kids flying control line it brings back memories for them about their control line days. In fact two of our members broke out their old C/L kits and started building them.

The other night one of our members brought his finished Magician to the flying field to show off. I got an opportunity to fly it!! It was the fist time I'd ever flown anything bigger than 1/2A, and I must say, "I liked it!!"

He offered me the plans for the plane and I'm anxious to build one. My question is, "What modern day engine would work on that plane?" He had an old Fox 35 on it. Based on some of the comments in this form, I was wondering if a new O.S. 25LA would be enough for the Magician??

Sincerely,
Steve T.
Monson, Massachusetts

kdheath

I believe the LA would work like a charm. Keep it light. Other possibles might be the Brodak 40 or an OS 35S. The Brodak is really strong and light, but does need a fair amount of breakin. The 35S is an old motor, but a good one would make a lovely match with a Magician. It would just take a little looking to find one. And actually, a properly broken in Fox 35 makes a neat combo with the Magician. The sound of the 4-2 break and the smell of the castor oil are nice.

In other words, I'd stuff an LA in the thing in a NY minute. The Magician is a killer airplane. That first "real" CL plane you fly is a revelation, isn't it? I felt that way the first time I flew a Pathfinder. Big airplane at 620 square inches, modified OS 40. Then I felt the same way again after getting on the handle of a Magnum with a Saito 4-stroke. It isn't much of a Magnum, but it really tells me what is possible. Great feeling!

On a side note, one of my buddies turned up one day with a Magician and a Ueda 40. First Ueda I ever saw outside of a magazine ad. I think they probably imported about six of these motors in the 60's. It had a venturi the size of a storm drain. Would hardly run. We went to the trash barrel, ripped a balsa stick from a wreck, whittled it a little and stuffed it in that huge venturi. Suddenly, he was flying the pattern with it! You just never know....

Phlip

How 'bout a Fox .35? Factory direct price from Fox: $59.40, plus shipping.

Phil

kdheath

They are cheap, but there is an art to the care and feeding of Foxes that not all of us want to deal with. The LA is pretty much a plug and play piece with a same or more power.

Jim Thomerson

I learned the stunt pattern with a Magician and Fox 35. The only modifications I would suggest are adjustable leadouts and adjustable tip weight box. The LA engine should work fine.

BMatthews

Ah Magicians.... that take me back a few too.

The only possible issue that may arise with the 25 is that you may not be able to set it up for a 4 cycle run for a true 4 to 2 break when you nose up. But if you're buddy just ran the Fox 35 in a strong 2 cycle more or less peaked out run then yeah, the 25LA will match it without a hiccup and you get a muffler on it to boot.

Old Sourdough

Bruce,

That's the way most C/L fliers are running the stock LA's, i.e., at a rich two stroke with a somewhat lower pitch prop to keep the lap times reasonable. I think that most using that engine are doing so with either an APC 9x4 or 10x4. The engine revs up a bit by going slightly leaner for maneuvers, but doesn't give them a problem with runaways. Using the stock muffler exercises some control over those runaways as well.

Old Sourdough

Jim,

After a comment made to me at another forum about the relative weights of the Fox .35 and the FP .20/25 (predecessor{s} to the LA .25), I wonder if shortening the nose 1/2" to 1" might not be in order for the Magician/LA .25 combo. Since I have no evidence of the need for doing so, this is only a speculation.

Old Sourdough

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm! That's a bit strange. I wonder how those lines through the last half of my previous post appeared there.

kdheath

Lessee....My $20 postal scale and NIB Fox 35 and NIB 25FP:

FP stock Muffler 8.4 oz.
FP SSW Tongue 6.9
Fox stock muffler 8.1
Fox SSW tongue 6.6

Looks like 0.3 ounce advantage Fox.

DesignMan

For those of you who want to build the Magician, buy the plans for the 1/2A Magician from Flying Models and scale it up to .35 size at your local copy shop. The version I published is Classic Legal with the improvements that Jim Silhavey and Bob Gialdini used. I have the documentation from them to prove it!

The improvements are an extra 1/2 rib-bay on the outboard wing, and half ribs between the main ribs. It really does make a difference!

BTW don't get clever and add working flaps! The tail moment is too short for them to actually improve the performance. If you are not going to compete in Classic, you could add the flaps if you move the elevator all the way to the tail of the fuselage. But if you do all that, why not just start with a flapped design?

kdheath

Barry Baxter has the original Magician plans for $13. <http://www.controllineplans.com/> Great guy, great service!

PS I hear now that Brodak will be kitting the Magician in the very near future. Cool!

jessiej

Can't be that hard. I did it at about 9 years of age with no adult supervision at all. (Almost 60 years later I am still operating with no adult supervision).

Seriously, an old Fox .35 run on low nitro, all castor fuel is as easy to run as anything, and it is Honest-To-By- God authentic for the airplane. Looks, sounds, feels, smells, and is right.

jess

BMatthews

Go back and edit your post. You'll probably find there's a square bracket combo with an S in the middle or similar where you messed up the closeing of the brackets.

Sport_Pilot

I would go for the Fox .35 also. Probably no other engine does the old 4-2-4 break out of the box like the Fox. If you need more power for a larger plane later on then you can upgrade it to ABC with hemi head and stuffer backplate and have more power than the OS .25 LA. Don't bother to wait for it to wear out, because it never will. In fact buying a used Fox .35 and adding the upgrade parts is not a bad way to go.

Sport_Pilot

There is? Coulda fooled me. I mean the older ones were a bear to break in, but the modern ones break in fairly fast. The needle isn't that great, but inexpensive to replace it with a Supertigre type. But it works well enough that you can wait till you crash inverted and break it off!

But other than that just use 5 or 10% nitro with at least 25% castor oil a 10-5 or 10- 6 prop and run at a four cycle mixture.

kdheath

I really do like the sound and smell of a good running Fox. And you can't deny the historic importance oif the motor. But it's a little like the MGB-a classic that just didn't go out of production. For my money, if I buy a Fox 35, then a stuffer backplate, hemi head, ABC P&L, and Randy's crankshaft, I might as well buy 3 OSs, 2 Stuka Stunt specials, or a PA lite!

Of course, that's my opinion and that, with $2.75 will buy you a Latte any day of the week.....

BTW, Walt Umland has been advertising a ready-to-cover Magician. Not cheap, but Walt is a really fine builder.

Sport_Pilot

Well, if you order all from Fox it will cost $31 for the hemi kit and $65 for the sleeve and liner, but you may find a hobby shop that will discount that. Your first option will not perform as well, and cost more, but at least you can do that twin project. Your last option may perform as well but still cost more.

Old Sourdough

Bruce,

That was the problem. It occurred as a result of my using the sqare bracket with an "s" in the parenthetical phrase. Unfortunately, this is the way I was taught to do this in school.

I'll try not to make the same error again.

Thanks.

slammin_sam

John Brodak will be kitting the Magician but not in the very near future. It's the one he bought from Walter Umland. I'd guess 6-8 months out.

308jockey

A couple of us have been flying Magicians with the OS LA 40 and stock muffler using tank pressure. Could't be happier. The run time is within 10 second everytime, lap times are the same beginning to end. Setting a slightly rich run seems to do it. We are getting plenty of power using MAS 10-6 props.

Rick H.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

Here's Rick's plane. The picture was taken this afternoon

308jockey

I should point out that Jim actually built that airplane and one or two others seen around here, built them back in the sixties. Then, right after Christmas of '04 he put them all in his truck and brought them to Auburn and made a gift of them. Other than recovering most of them there was little work to do to get them airborne. It was all the OTHER stuff he brought that made an even bigger difference. A framed up Nobler, a Green Box kit and another one hand cut and with foam wings. There were 2 built Magicians and a Ringmaster, a Flite Streak with it's original orange Monokote, a Magician kit that is now being built and three or four other kits. Then there was the box of stuff and I do mean stuff......Control handles, fuel tanks of all description, complete NIB line sets ready to go. A U-Reely (everyone needs one of those). OS 35S engines, three of them. Fox .35's, a .36 and still more engines. It was like opening a treasure box it was great! He just made a gift of the whole load. We now oficially have a fleet of aircraft here, something like 9 airplanes between 2 of us. I've since picked up a G--Nobler that will be built once the other Nobler gets painted. It's going to be a good flying season or else a destructive one. Naaahhh, we'll avoid unscheduled landings and enjoy.

Rick H.