Death of a Model Plane aka Patty Wagstaff
04-15-2007, 12:08 PM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
ORIGINAL: Geistware
I wasn't there.
From the grass and the fact that he had little or no air speed, he could have landed it short of any obstacles.
Not sure why he just didn't drop the nose and land.
THE wind would have made it stop short.
I wasn't there.
From the grass and the fact that he had little or no air speed, he could have landed it short of any obstacles.
Not sure why he just didn't drop the nose and land.
THE wind would have made it stop short.
From the first post...
He was doing well, but if he had continued on his current path (into the headwind) he'd have likely hit one of the several parked vehicles. I started to tell him "Stay to your right" but figured that it would be best to not say anything and let him fly it. When he tried to bring it around and touch down on the runway is when he went from a headwind to a crosswind. At that point the plane stalled and fell from the sky.
04-15-2007, 01:05 PM
#28
RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
Glad to see you are proceeding with the rebuild right away. I normally let them sit a while due to my own frustration so you are the better man here. Are you going to recover it with the original scheme or something custom?
04-15-2007, 05:26 PM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
Staying with the same scheme.just the covering on the sides of the fuselage was damaged.Already
got the white monocote,red monocote and 5 sheets of 3/32X4X36 balsa to do the repairs.Had to order
the sapphire blue for the stripe.I already have the balsa to do the stringers.I was actually able to save all the stickers on the sides of the fuselage.So it will be back as the Patty Wagstaff scheme.I like the scheme.
Roy
got the white monocote,red monocote and 5 sheets of 3/32X4X36 balsa to do the repairs.Had to order
the sapphire blue for the stripe.I already have the balsa to do the stringers.I was actually able to save all the stickers on the sides of the fuselage.So it will be back as the Patty Wagstaff scheme.I like the scheme.
Roy
04-15-2007, 07:49 PM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
I disagree,
If you look at the pictures and they way the runway is cut, unless he was going to fly behind him, there should not be any cars.
Now, there may be cars at the end of the runway. From the pictures you can't tell.
What I am saying is that from the pictures angle and how the grass is laying, he could have landed.
If you look at the pictures and they way the runway is cut, unless he was going to fly behind him, there should not be any cars.
Now, there may be cars at the end of the runway. From the pictures you can't tell.
What I am saying is that from the pictures angle and how the grass is laying, he could have landed.
ORIGINAL: JasonInAugusta
From the first post...
He didn't drop the nose and land 'cause he felt it would be safer for those around him if he turned away.
ORIGINAL: Geistware
I wasn't there.
From the grass and the fact that he had little or no air speed, he could have landed it short of any obstacles.
Not sure why he just didn't drop the nose and land.
THE wind would have made it stop short.
I wasn't there.
From the grass and the fact that he had little or no air speed, he could have landed it short of any obstacles.
Not sure why he just didn't drop the nose and land.
THE wind would have made it stop short.
From the first post...
He was doing well, but if he had continued on his current path (into the headwind) he'd have likely hit one of the several parked vehicles. I started to tell him "Stay to your right" but figured that it would be best to not say anything and let him fly it. When he tried to bring it around and touch down on the runway is when he went from a headwind to a crosswind. At that point the plane stalled and fell from the sky.
04-15-2007, 08:29 PM
#31
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
To quote Frank Barone... Holy crap, you've got to be kidding me. Here's a guy who has let his friend share his spectacular pics, and then logged in himself to show the rebuild status, and you want to argue with him about how he crashed?!?! And this from the moderator. I recently posted how the crash forum picked me back up after a low point in flying. Now I'm really disappointed again. Tbolt...Great plane, great attitude, and great awareness to protect others property around you. Good luck on the rebuild/remaiden. Jason...Keep that camera handy. You obviously have skills that are beyond modeling.
Whats right about this forum is marred by members who only seek to degrade and demean others. Look at the posts, laugh with those who laugh, commiserate with those that can't, and maybe even learn a thing or two during a rebuild.
Maybe there should be a "judge and jury" forum started if you really need to fault find and nitpick the crashers remarks.
"I disagree" indeed.
Whats right about this forum is marred by members who only seek to degrade and demean others. Look at the posts, laugh with those who laugh, commiserate with those that can't, and maybe even learn a thing or two during a rebuild.
Maybe there should be a "judge and jury" forum started if you really need to fault find and nitpick the crashers remarks.
"I disagree" indeed.
04-15-2007, 09:10 PM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
ORIGINAL: Geistware
I disagree,
If you look at the pictures and they way the runway is cut, unless he was going to fly behind him, there should not be any cars.
Now, there may be cars at the end of the runway. From the pictures you can't tell.
What I am saying is that from the pictures angle and how the grass is laying, he could have landed.
I disagree,
If you look at the pictures and they way the runway is cut, unless he was going to fly behind him, there should not be any cars.
Now, there may be cars at the end of the runway. From the pictures you can't tell.
What I am saying is that from the pictures angle and how the grass is laying, he could have landed.
Hilarious.
What cracks me up is that so many folks came into this thread and said "I wasn't there but..."
In my opinion, once reading "I wasn't there", everything that follows should be disregarded.
The ideas of elevator snap stall and such are pure speculation. With the elevator input Roy was giving he was safe...until he gave right rudder and intentionally flew the plane down the runway...into a crosswind...to keep from continuing on his current path. he did try to counter the stall with aileron inputs but when you have not airflow over the wing there's no point.
Here's a very crude map for those that weren't there. The black rectangles are parked vehicles, the smaller planes are in the pit area...which was populated with planes and people. The first location of the plane he was fine...airflow over both wings, etc. When he gave right rudder and pointed the plane down the runway is when he lost airflow over the right wing.
Like I said earlier...I started to tell him to "Stay to your right" but figured he had enough on his mind. In hindsight I wish I had told him to do so.
04-15-2007, 09:35 PM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
You guys are dorks. Armchair quarterbacks. I'm waiting on the NTSB report before I jump to any major conclusions. Oh, wait...it was a model...
Should be a good re-build project.
Should be a good re-build project.
04-16-2007, 06:13 AM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
Hey,the plane is crashed.I will learn from this experience,not guys who were not there,saying I should have done this or that.
You were not there,I was.If you still want to argue about it,do it elsewhere,this is a crash and rebuild forum,not the
tips and techniques forum.If you try to argue with the armchair pilots,they will drag you down to their level and
beat you with experience.I am in the rebuild stage right now,when I get to the remaiden flight,I think I can handle it
fine.I have crashed other planes before this and it will happen again,part of flying.So just get over it.I did.
Roy
You were not there,I was.If you still want to argue about it,do it elsewhere,this is a crash and rebuild forum,not the
tips and techniques forum.If you try to argue with the armchair pilots,they will drag you down to their level and
beat you with experience.I am in the rebuild stage right now,when I get to the remaiden flight,I think I can handle it
fine.I have crashed other planes before this and it will happen again,part of flying.So just get over it.I did.
Roy
04-16-2007, 08:01 AM
#36
RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
ORIGINAL: P47Tbolt
Hey,the plane is crashed.I will learn from this experience,not guys who were not there,saying I should have done this or that.
You were not there,I was.If you still want to argue about it,do it elsewhere,this is a crash and rebuild forum,not the
tips and techniques forum.If you try to argue with the armchair pilots,they will drag you down to their level and
beat you with experience.I am in the rebuild stage right now,when I get to the remaiden flight,I think I can handle it
fine.I have crashed other planes before this and it will happen again,part of flying.So just get over it.I did.
Roy
Hey,the plane is crashed.I will learn from this experience,not guys who were not there,saying I should have done this or that.
You were not there,I was.If you still want to argue about it,do it elsewhere,this is a crash and rebuild forum,not the
tips and techniques forum.If you try to argue with the armchair pilots,they will drag you down to their level and
beat you with experience.I am in the rebuild stage right now,when I get to the remaiden flight,I think I can handle it
fine.I have crashed other planes before this and it will happen again,part of flying.So just get over it.I did.
Roy
Respectfully, Mr67Stang
04-16-2007, 08:16 AM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
ORIGINAL: Mr67Stang
My intent was never to degrade or give tips to the pilot nor the guy that should be working for Sports Illustrated as a photographer. Respectfully, Mr67Stang
My intent was never to degrade or give tips to the pilot nor the guy that should be working for Sports Illustrated as a photographer. Respectfully, Mr67Stang
Why thanks!
While I don't shoot images for Sports Illustrated, I do write/shoot images for Fly RC.
Here's a few more shots that you may enjoy.
I'll only post links due to the large image size of 1000 x 567.
http://projecttwin.com/files/fly/3.jpg
http://projecttwin.com/files/fly/4.jpg
http://projecttwin.com/files/fly/5.jpg
http://projecttwin.com/files/fly/6.jpg
http://projecttwin.com/files/fly/7.jpg
http://projecttwin.com/files/fly/8.jpg
BTW, you never offended either Roy or myself. We were just amazed how so many folks could say "I wasn't there but..."
So, no offense taken.
04-16-2007, 08:22 AM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
ORIGINAL: P47Tbolt
How about a little sympathy for the pilot here.
We can discuss pics and cameras later.
ORIGINAL: cjposada
What is your camera setup like? WOW!!!!
What is your camera setup like? WOW!!!!
We can discuss pics and cameras later.
How 'bout I smack you in the back of the head for putting the choke and smoke so close to one another?
04-16-2007, 09:56 AM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
ORIGINAL: JasonInAugusta
04-16-2007, 10:32 AM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
ORIGINAL: JasonInAugusta
How 'bout I smack you in the back of the head for putting the choke and smoke so close to one another?
ORIGINAL: P47Tbolt
How about a little sympathy for the pilot here.
We can discuss pics and cameras later.
ORIGINAL: cjposada
What is your camera setup like? WOW!!!!
What is your camera setup like? WOW!!!!
We can discuss pics and cameras later.
How 'bout I smack you in the back of the head for putting the choke and smoke so close to one another?
going to.
[>:][>:][>:][>:]
04-16-2007, 10:36 AM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
ORIGINAL: rcdivot
Gotta give him credit! Looks like he was still trying to save it in these photos. Looks like he wasen't giving it enough down elevator!
ORIGINAL: JasonInAugusta
when I was flying before the mishap,I was trying out the smoke system I just installed.
I could here Jason behind me taking pics and the camera was very fast from what I could
here it doing.Hey JIA,where are those pics!!!
04-16-2007, 10:48 AM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
ORIGINAL: Mr67Stang
Okay, this is my fault. I started it. With the information given at the time of my first post I made my "SPECULATION" and yes that is all it was. It is fun to try and figure out what happened and peice it together with the information given. My intent was never to degrade or give tips to the pilot nor the guy that should be working for Sports Illustrated as a photographer. You will note that once my SPECULATION was corrected I did not press the issue. P47TBolt, I look forward to watching your rebuild and hopefully a report of it's remaidening in the future and I apologize if my SPECULATION offended you.
Respectfully, Mr67Stang
ORIGINAL: P47Tbolt
Hey,the plane is crashed.I will learn from this experience,not guys who were not there,saying I should have done this or that.
You were not there,I was.If you still want to argue about it,do it elsewhere,this is a crash and rebuild forum,not the
tips and techniques forum.If you try to argue with the armchair pilots,they will drag you down to their level and
beat you with experience.I am in the rebuild stage right now,when I get to the remaiden flight,I think I can handle it
fine.I have crashed other planes before this and it will happen again,part of flying.So just get over it.I did.
Roy
Hey,the plane is crashed.I will learn from this experience,not guys who were not there,saying I should have done this or that.
You were not there,I was.If you still want to argue about it,do it elsewhere,this is a crash and rebuild forum,not the
tips and techniques forum.If you try to argue with the armchair pilots,they will drag you down to their level and
beat you with experience.I am in the rebuild stage right now,when I get to the remaiden flight,I think I can handle it
fine.I have crashed other planes before this and it will happen again,part of flying.So just get over it.I did.
Roy
Respectfully, Mr67Stang
No offense taken from your speculation.Other people think that their speculation has to be correct on situations,even
when they are not there or think they know all the facts to be considered.
2 more facts need to be considered,that anyone else not there could have known.
(1)The field I fly at is a private field.Is not AMA sanctioned.Just guys out flying have a good time.
(2)Goes along with #1.I am not an AMA member.So any damage caused by my plane,I am liable for.
So it was the better decision to try to turn away from the pit area than land near or through it.
My wallet could have been hurt a lot more if it had hit someone or their vehicle.
So from my standpoint,I did what I thought was best for safety reasons.Just not for the plane,but
planes can be rebuilt or replaced.
Roy
04-16-2007, 11:30 AM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
ORIGINAL: P47Tbolt
How 'bout I smack you in the back of the head for not telling me if I was clear or not to land to the right of me.Like you said you were
going to.
[>:][>:][>:][>:]
How 'bout I smack you in the back of the head for not telling me if I was clear or not to land to the right of me.Like you said you were
going to.
[>:][>:][>:][>:]
I figured you were plenty capable of crashing it on your own...didn't need my help.
That's part of the reason I felt bad after you crashed. I felt that if you'd stayed right that it would still be in one piece. I kept thinking "Damn...I should've told him.."
My camera shoots 5 frames per second so yeah - that sequence took about 2 seconds to transpire.
ORIGINAL: rcdivot
Gotta give him credit! Looks like he was still trying to save it in these photos. Looks like he wasen't giving it enough down elevator!
Gotta give him credit! Looks like he was still trying to save it in these photos. Looks like he wasen't giving it enough down elevator!
For sure!
Roy is a big guy...When you're putting that much body English into a maneuver and still can't recover you just know you're in a bad way.
Shots of the plane in the air prior to the crash.
Was overcast and I was using a 75-300mm lens so pics are grainy.
04-16-2007, 12:54 PM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
love that last photo. i have a cannon elan 7e. it shoots pretty fast too. I think i could get some cool sequences like that, but my wife brought the camera to the field the first time i flew and there were disasterous results. the guys all told me that a camera is bad luck. there were several crashes that followed the next couple weeks. i was beginning to feel like i had a black cloud over me for a while. anyway, seeing your shots, i think i might bring out the camera next time i fly.
beautiful pics, and as mentioned above, great attitude by the poor fellow that suffered that tragic crash/loss. I hope to be as graceful about my next crash (we all know it is coming eventually).
beautiful pics, and as mentioned above, great attitude by the poor fellow that suffered that tragic crash/loss. I hope to be as graceful about my next crash (we all know it is coming eventually).
]
04-16-2007, 04:58 PM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
I am a Nikon guy and I must say-NICE Photographs! That takes some quick action to fire off those shots and capture such an event. Wow. And sorry about your loss. It was a beautiful aircraft.
04-16-2007, 05:17 PM
#47
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
That's a beautiful plane ( and will be again ) and awesome photography. There should be a forum somewhere on here about how to take pictures of our stuff in flight. From some of the vids and pics that crop up we could sure use it!!!!
Dan
Dan
04-16-2007, 06:56 PM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
ORIGINAL: Geistware
What field were you flying at?
SCRAM or Trenton?
What field were you flying at?
SCRAM or Trenton?
Also,Trenton recently lost their site,land was sold.
04-16-2007, 07:49 PM
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RE: Death of a Patty Wagstaff
I didn't specify but was asking JasonInAugusta.
Now, I am in Atlanta and would welcome an invite to come and fly with you.
I just got my plane recovered and should be back in the air by this weekend.
If you are even in south Atlanta along I-75, let me know and bring your plane!
Now, I am in Atlanta and would welcome an invite to come and fly with you.
I just got my plane recovered and should be back in the air by this weekend.
If you are even in south Atlanta along I-75, let me know and bring your plane!
ORIGINAL: P47Tbolt
Neither field.I fly at a private field as I stated in post #42.
Also,Trenton recently lost their site,land was sold.
ORIGINAL: Geistware
What field were you flying at?
SCRAM or Trenton?
What field were you flying at?
SCRAM or Trenton?
Also,Trenton recently lost their site,land was sold.