I took all those pretty pictures just for you and you didn't even try what I said. You are going to hurt my feelings.

When we are talking about the step, are we both referring to the side with the ridge that has the smaller outer diameter? Rather than the side that is completely flat all the way across?

Because if you consider how the bearings are, and how the step washers are supposed to be, you will see that they _must_ bind the bearing if they are on with the completely flat side toward the bearing, and with the _step_ side toward the bearing, they cannot.

This is why I am sure there is something else wrong.

If you do what I suggested in the picture post above and assure me that the head is assembled correctly, I will tell you how to adjust the pitch correctly too. But if you ignore my suggestions (as is your perfect right, after all) then perhaps someone else will be willing to help you do it your way.

Hey man don't get mad. I did try what you were talking about. I had to get off the net as soon as i replied a minute ago. It will not fall by itself. It falls just a hair. How do i need to fix that. don't get mad i really appreciate the help. The steps I am talking about are the step washer. It don't make sense but with the flat side of the wahser next to the bearing it flies nice. I don't know why but it does

Since the top is sticking, could that be the problem. I am confused on how to fix the top part.

what are the shims?

Dirt man please first put it back together _exactly_ the way it is supposed to be, with the flat side of each step washer _away_ from its bearing., and the shims between the inner step washers and the o-rings. Be very careful when you put the blade grip retaining screws in, that you do not "catch" the outer step washer between the spindle and the flat washer/screw, it should fit completely over the spindle.
Once you have it together correctly, do the test in the pics again, and we will go from there.
I'm not mad, just frustrated.

bladecx, they are little washerlike thingies that are used to set up the "damping" in the head. You can get them by the bagful from your local EFlite supplier. They are really thin and you need from 0 to 5 per side, depending on a lot of different factors like the temperature, the phase of the moon, and who's on first.

ok thx but im having a problem with mine as well...the blades arent in track and they wobble during flight..if you bring the cp down to eye level you can see how they are out of track..do you know what may be wrong?

Yes, bladecx, I do know what may be wrong:

Your blades are out of track.

Here is how to fix them: put some different colored tape on each blade tip so you can tell which one is higher.
It is best to do the tracking with the heli on the ground, it is way too easy to crash while trying to see which blade is higher.
Hold it down somehow, securely, and run it up to about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle in normal mode. Figure out which blade is higher. (Actually the tracking should be done at zero pitch, but this is good enough for a first pass.)
Before you try anything else, switch the blades, and check again. If it got worse, put the blades back. If it got better, good.
Now you need to decide if you want to lower the high blade or raise the lower blade. If you raise the lower blade you will have slightly less head speed at hover, and vice versa.

To adjust the tracking, unhook the pitch control link of whichever blade you want to adjust, and screw it in or out by one full turn and check again. Repeat until blades are in track as best as you can get them. If you lengthen the link it will raise the blade and vice versa. Check after each full turn on the link. Don't worry if you can't get it exact. If you make a change and it gets worse, undo the last change and move to the other blade.
Keep track of what you are doing, which blade, which grip, raise, lower, etc. because it is easy to get confused.

I mark the blades and the grips so I can tell them apart always.

This must be done whenever you change blades or any part of the head that may affect pitch--like any part of the head.

If you are wondering about the "full turn" part it is because the linkages have a larger hole on one side and this larger side goes towards the ball, always.

thanks a bunch! i also noticed when i was standing right over the heli that when the main rotor is turning the head moves about at max 1mm. could this be my problem? i guess what im saying is that i think the flybar may be warped

Well you didn't mention the flybar.
The flybar must be tracked, too.
Take the blades off again (you have them marked so you can get them back on right, right?).
Unplug the tail motor noting the polarity very carefully.
Balance the flybar first by loosening the little setscrews at the flybar control frame and measuring very carefully from this point to the weights at the paddles. Slide the whole flybar until the distance is exactly equal and then tighten the setscrews.
Now get each of the paddles exactly parallel to the flybar frame and to each other. Make sure the screw/nut is tight.
Run the main motor up Gently, enough to be able to see if the flybar is wobbling or is out of track. If it is and you can't fix it by this adjustment, then it probably is bent and needs replacing.
When you put it back together be sure the main blades aren't too tight in the grips. They should just barely be tight enough to hold position when the heli is held sideways and given a gentle shake.
Too tight will cause all kinds of problems.
A little wobble of the mast is OK, it should smooth out at RPM, if it doesn't or if the whole heli vibrates, you probably have a bent shaft or severely out-of-balance blades.

At least I think I am understanding you.

quote
when i was standing right over the heli that when the main rotor is turning the head moves about at max 1mm.
end quote

but now that i read this phrase again it isn't really clear to me just what the heck you mean.

I have it returned everything to the stock settings. It still doesn't fall all the way down.

OK now we can go further. It probably needs to have these things looked at: rotor head fit and flybar fit.
About halfway thru this bulletin is a section on the "sticky collective" problem.
This bulletin applies specifically to the CP but if you look at the info it will be very useful for you as well, and might lead to soving the problem.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=EFLH1100
Note especially the info on the bearings and the step washers.

Well i took it apart again and i used alot more silicone lube than i had been. It falls completely with no bind. Your were right about the steps being wrong and causing a bind. Would the 3-1 be bad if the headspeed is down alot. I had put a new motor on it last night and that didn't fix it. THANKS again for all the help!

no, I'm sure you didn't hurt anything.
now you must set the collective pitch, that is what its problem with power is most likely.
you can do a rough setting without a pitch gauge.
unplug both the motors.
turn on the transmitter and select idle-up flight mode, center the trims except for throttle trim which should be allthe way down. Center the left stick exactly. Then plug in the helicopter, it should go to zero pitch. Look at the end of the blade, imagine a straight line connecting the leading and trailing edges, this line is the pitch line, it should be parallel to the flybar (hold the flybar level by hand). This is zero pitch. Look at both blades. Adjust the pitch by first unplugging the helicopter then adjusting all three servo link rods equally, either longer or shorter as required, by full turns. Don't adjust while powered up, it's bad for the servos. Set it as close to zero pitch as you can here.
Then check the travel with full up and down motion of the left stick. The head should go from the top at low stick to the bottom at high stick, and should almost hit the physical stops.
Now switch back to normal mode. The blades should be just a hair negative at low stick and full positive at top stick.
Now track the flybar and the blades as I described in the posts above.
Then fly, and see if it works, We may need to adjust the pitch a bit after these steps, but start with this.

if you were standing right over the heli when its landed and ive it enough throttle to turn the rotor but not lift of you can notice is swivel around about 1mm from where the head should be...if that makes any more sense

I adjusted the pitch and it takes off fine. Now i am back with the same problem that i had to start with. It wobbles not quite as bad but enough to be agrivating. I don't know why but when i turned the step washers around it stopped. I guess i will have to get used to the wobble or something. Maybe we can figure it out. I hope. By wobble i mean like a sesaw front to back. Thanks again!

I was flying a minute ago and i noticed something strange. While holding it i ran it up to where it would be in a hover. When pulled the right stick back it seemed to vibrate and make some noise. I don't know if that is normal or not.

But we are way ahead now. We know that it is assembled correctly and we have the collective pitch adjusted close.
Now, you can start looking for the exact number of shims to get rid of the "nod".
I know this is a pain, but there isn't any other way to do it.
You might need 2 more shims, or 2 less, usually nodding is cause by too tight damping, that is too many shims, but it can also be from too loose.
Since you were getting results from turning the washer over, that seems to me that you need tighter damping (I know I guessed opposite at first). So put in one more shim per side, and fly it and see. It will either get better, or it will get worse!

We had to get the washers in right to make sure we werent getting that sticky collective.
It is just barely possible that you got another bad servo, too, did you get the same s75s that were in it originally, I have had really bad luck with those servos, I have seen them go bad right out of the box.
If you suspect this you can swap one servo for another and see if the nod goes with the servo. But still the damping is the most likely cause at this point I think.

By the way after I posted yesterday, mine started nodding too! I think it is contagious.
But mine was caused by the tail rotor not pushing exactly horizontal, and the gyro trying to correct for it.
If your tail bracket got knocked loosi in the crash, it might be crooked, like mine was, and evidently this will cause nodding too, as I found out yesterday.

Another thing is the blades too tight in the grips, this can cause all kinds of problems.

Sorry to seem so haphazard, I have a visitor from out of town and I'm a bit distracted, so I might not be posting until tomorrow, so I wanted to mention as many possibilities as I could think of.

bladecx i still don't get it. Are you talking about a vibration in the top of the mast (the rotor head top part)? Does the whole heli vibrate or just the mast swiveling around? 1 mm isn't much, it's probably nothing, as long as the heli itself doesn't vibrate when you are flying it.

It still yo-yo's some. Sometimes it does and sometiimes it doesn't. I will try the extra shim tomorrow. Gotta get in the bed. Thanks again!

no, the helicopter is fine and does not vibrate but the top of the head where the screw is...the screw moves around

ive got another question jellyson...what is a DD tail?

I tried the extra shim and it seemed to make the sesaw a little worse. Then i tried it with one shim per side. That did the same thing. Two shims per side has had the best result but it still has the wobble/ sesaw thing going on. I was looking at the servos and the one on the left side( looking at it if you were standing behind it) the arm was centered was alot higher than the other two. I tried to adjust the arm on the gears but it is either higher or lower than center. Could that be the problem?

I had bought a new main frame, tail boom, and tail motor housing. I completely rebuilt the whole thing. I put the two shims in it and this thing flies like crap. I went down to one and it still sucks. I tried to take all of the shims out but when you put the blades in the grips the blade hits the retaining screw. I have tried from one to four shims per side. This thing is a piece of s#@$%!!! I don't know if the servos have already went bad or what. Everything is new except for the reciever. I put a new 3-1 in it also. I am running out of options. I have spent enough money on this thing to buy three more of them. I guess i can buy three servos. I am sick of throwing parts at this thing. I know that i am setting it up right because of the information you guys have given me. I appreciate the help alot. Maybe there is still hope? God i hope so. [:@]

what is the dd tail
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