Hi
been doing a lot of reading and haven't come across an answer for this.
Can a brushless Feigao 12 x 30 with a Phoenix cc10 be used with the stock 3-1 and G90 gyro.?? I did notice in the CP Pro manual that they offer instructions on how to set up a brushless main motor .... So, I thought this was possible for the tail.
Haven't got this bird yet, and already looking for ways to spend more money. LOL, However everything I've read so far points to the stock N30 motor as a weak point. Can anyone point me in the right direction?
Thanks Whacker

welcome to the forums whacker!

yes, a brushless tail motor can be used with a 3n1/g90. i use something similar myself, but with gears instead of DD. since the equipment is pretty much the same, i recommend using the geared 5300kV long can setup for better performance. it's a little heavier than other tails, but the power and response time do more than make up for the weight.

if you use hh with a stock brushed main motor, a gws DD would be more economical and provide all the performance you'll need for now ($12 vs $75); the power of a brushless tail isn't really worth it until you have a brushless main to go with it.

i'm sure nobody told you heli's would be cheap.

Thanks Truglodite

a gws DD would be more economical and provide all the performance you'll need for now

You mean a motor part number CN12-RXC or EDF50H with a wide 3 x 2 prop.... seems I read somewhere that some of these can be had in different voltages....
Just planning for the enevitable never flown one of these and expect to burn some things out....
Wasn't thinking so much about the performance of the brushless, more concerned with the lifespan. and not having to order two motors??

Whacker

exactly, the "X" version is the high voltage version that you want to get. it will last much longer than the stock motor setup, especially with a 3030 prop. 3030 is a better choice for beginners, as it will give plenty of tail authority through learning basic ff, and your gws DD motor will last longer than it would with a larger prop. a larger prop like a 4030 gives better performance for intermediate pilots at the expense of heat (more heat=less motor life). a 3020 (or 3"x2" ) prop is ok for a brushless dd, but it doesn't have enough bite for the gws motor. 3030 is as low as you need to go to make the motor last.

Hi
Roger all that
I see tower hobbies has a set with motor and two blades (wrong blades ) I guess that would require new tail/motor mount . Then had a look at the site that showed how to do the complete mode, new motor, heatsink, new prop, adapter and new tail / motor mount....
I'll have to do some digging to see if I can source all this from one supplier.....
If I can get motor and blades would you suggest mounting in stock tail or get a new tail from GWS which is made for use without the stock gear.
Also some sites show these motors rated at 7.2 volts , I'm not sure if thats the maximum voltage rating or just an indication of the current draw at that voltage..... Fun
Where would you suggest be the best bet for sourcing these parts? It appears as well that the propeller is mounted on other side of boom, I guess without that gear, rotation of blade is opposite....
Maybe I should just stick with the stock tail setup, add a 5300kv (motor brand ??) motor, like you have , new pinion, .5 pitch, # of teeth?, id ? and a phoenix 10amp esc?? Sooner or later thats where I'll end up anyway!!!
Decisions , decisions....
Whacker

use the stock tail mount because it is stiffer than the gws fin tail that tower sells (and it's already installed). to fit the 12mm diameter motor, round out the flat forward portion where the motor goes. i did this using only a 1/4" cylinder diamond grit bit on my dremel tool. it doesn't weaken the mount enough to make any difference. i'd also leave the bearing housing alone in case you'll ever want to use a gear drive tail later on. if you don't think you'll ever use a gear tail again, you could chop the bearing tube off to save weight. otherwise just remove the bearings and keep them in a safe place.

for DD: the motor mounts on the left of the boom, prop on the right of the boom, with the prop lettering facing left.

the high voltage gws DD ("X") motor is rated for 7.4V continuous and the battery is 11.1V, but on the blade's tail you'll only be using 40% power most of the time. so they last a while.

as far as the brushless tails go: the equipment by itself costs roughly $75 and requires a programmable radio (which new are roughly $200+). also the power of a brushless tail is unecessary unless you have a brushless main to compensate for (which is another $75-$90). by then, your blade will also accellerate in every direction much faster than stock, which means you'll have more expensive crashes and more of them unless you have hovering mastered.

besides investing in extra batteries, i'd honestly say upgrading to the brushed DD motor is the only other upgrade worth the $$$ from the start with a cp pro. when you find yourself outflying the heli (which takes some aggressive lines to do), start digging deeper into the hobby starting with a heading hold gyro. when that gets old buy a brushless main. then, when you need more start saving to buy a programmable tx, with intent to use it as a gateway to a trex. then give the cp a brushless tail to top it all off. j/k you don't need to take me too seriously, there are many ways to invest in the hobby. the important thing is that you're having fun with it (and aren't going broke either).

Hi
Thanks for all your info Truglodite
Did I read correctly that the stock CP Pro Transmitter does not work when using a brushless dd tail with a Phoenix CC ESc??
so, heres my latest info, thought I would source parts so that when the time comes I could either go DD or just replace existing motor
Parts Needed
MOTOR GWS EDP-50Xc
whats the shaft diameter of these?
PINION ??
stock pinion is 8T .5m this .5m may be the shaft diameter or the pitch diameter??
BLADES EP 3030 and EP3020 for DD setup
ADAPTER ??
I think I need something to get the 3030 or 3020 blades to attach to the new motor for DD setup..
HEATSINK HH316

Also, noted a part number 68251 motor with pinion, this may work??? 9 tooth? motor will have to work a little harder
[link=http://www.helihobby.com/html/PICCOLO5.html]Motor and Pinion ??[/link]
You say you use a 5100kv motor with the existing tail, which motor is that/where from and was the pinion included?
Whacker

You don't need an adapter the EP-0320 push right on. (You need to balance it first. a pin to balance around and cutting one blade is all it takes )

You also need to find the proper screws. They come with the motor but not in the prop motor combo. The N20 screws are to small.

Allerc.com have all you need and also the EP-0320 in black!! Don't forget to get the heat sink.

good luck with it.

If you like to se what it can do look at Nick Maxwells video in the RC group forum.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=580952

Ulf

yes you did, and i'm wrong in that regard. a stock cp pro tx can actually work with a brushless tail. don't know what i was thinking, must've been drunk.

tribologist is right, you don't need any adaptors for smaller gws DD props like the 0320 (or 3020), they push right on. if you want to fly the larger gws DD props like a 4030, you'll need the prop adaptor because the larger prop hubs are different.

as for pinion gears, the stock one is 8T-0.5M-1.0mm (1.0mm is the diameter of the hole). the gws edp50xc and all of the feigao 12mm brushless motors have a 1.5mm shaft, so the stock pinion obviously won't fit. century makes an 8T-0.5M-1.5mm pinion for their hummingbird high authority tail motor upgrade (century part#CNE253A, got mine at heliworld), that fits the gws and feigao 12mm motors and allows them to work with the stock geared tail rotor. of course, if you are careful you can bore out the stock pinion to fit.

btw, technically M stands for Module, which is the diameter of the pitch circle divided by the number of teeth (the pitch circle is basically the gear with its teeth shaved off). the important thing to remember is a 0.5M pinion will not mesh with a 0.6M gear... and to have fun.

[edit: nick maxwell is an excellent pilot. that video really shows what blades can do.]

Dude.

Whatever tail Nick is using in that video - I WANT IT.

Even at full rudder in either direction, I can't spin that fast. I think someone said hes using the GWS DD motor?

Consider that bad boy purchased.

Are there any good threads detailing the installation of the DD motors?

(GWS EDF50H tail motor
GWS 3x2 WIDE prop)

Now I need to order and figure out how to install those things. Does that motor just bolt on?

Hi
You've got the same questions as I had after some 4 Hrs of reading I come acroos some info in the big CPPro thread in this ER-flite forum, I think it's somewhere around page 42, lots of detailed information.
Theres just so much info here.
I haven't seen the video dial up ISP and I'm not going to wait that long for downloads...
I'll bet though theres more to it then just having the DD tail!!!
Truglodite has a wealth of knoweledge, If only I could convince him to remember what page in what thread has the info I'm looking for !! LOL
Whacker

Update
Got used in A1 shape CP Pro , have 5' x 10' floor space to work with 1st 8 or so packs practiced with Radd.... Added training gear some hovering at 3' --- what a sensitive rig....
Flown 21 packs in 7 days , slow and steady,
Batteries discharged down to 10.7 volts or so before I recharge, let cool down 1/2 hr prior to charge.... Average charge time 1 - 1 1/2 hrs . Fully charged .... charger shuts down somewhere between 12.4 and 12.5 volts....
I used a meter to measure the voltage every 10 minutes or so and have plotted a charge curve, this then has allowed me to check where I am with respect to charge time remaining, by measuring the voltage..
Also, if there were to be a problem I would pick it up during the charge cycle.....
All stock motors, and stock 800mah battery still working fine........ Average run time slidding on floor and hovering is 10 to 15 minutes.....

Who knows maybe I won't need this new Tail motor

For new tail motor I've ordered the following all from allerc, shipped same day...
2 x EP3020 PROPELLER (EP3020)
2 x EP3030 PROPELLER (EP3030)
1 x GWS EDF 40 H with 1630 x 6 rotor blade (EDF40H)
2 x GWS DRAGONFLY HELICOPTER PINION GEAR FOR TAIL MOTOR (M0.5*8T*4L- (HELIPNGERM10)
1 x ELECTRIC POWER HEAT SINK FOR CN12 MOTOR (EHS-12)
Pinion gear should give me the option to contiue to use gear drive tail
ordered EDF40 H , felt that that would better my chances of receiving the proper motor...

Whacker