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AeroAce Quad

Old 02-27-2006, 05:40 PM
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Default AeroAce Quad

Behold: The AeroAce Quad!



Just finished building my Quad AA by combining the electronics and motors from two planes. I shaved out the battery compartment so that both batteries would fit next to each other, and cut out a slot in the top of the fuse to hold the electronics/charge plug/switch for the secondary motors. Both operate on frequency A, so only need one controller (just have to charge 2 batteries). More photos of the prototype and build process for this can be found here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sxates/...7594071618186/

We have 27mph winds out right now, so I haven't been able to test this out yet. For now I've kept the stock wing configuration, but may change it up a bit after getting it outside to see how it handles. From what I can test inside, this thing is FAST. Easily twice as fast as a single, and far too fast to control indoors. Sliding on the concrete floor, it almost takes off from the ground. More to come when the wind dies down!
Old 02-27-2006, 06:23 PM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

Wow that's sweet! I'm dieing to hear how that thing flies outdoors. Maybe you could take the bottom wing off for even more speed.[>:]
Old 02-27-2006, 06:35 PM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

thats pretty cool looking. lets see, 30 grams of weight roughly, 34square inches of wing area, (only 21sq in of wing area if lower wings removed [X(] ), and nearly 20 grams of thrust...yeah, sounds fast! sounds like fun too. cant wait to hear how she flys.

nick
Old 02-27-2006, 09:17 PM
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Well, it's still really windy, but I was anxious to see how this would do. So in spite of gusting wind between 10 and 20mph, I took it out to a large parking lot across the street.

Wow. It's a whole different plane. I forgot to bring a coin with me, so I couldn't weight down the nose, but it didn't really need it. At 1/2 throttle it could hold its own even in this wind. At full throttle, it pretty much went straight up. On a calm day, with a weight in the nose, this thing will scream. I'd estimate 20+ mph. It certainly doesn't qualify as an indoor flyer anymore, unless you're in a stadium.

Turning is the biggest challenge really. I'm surprised to find that it doesn't look like it needs much tweaking at all from what I have now, but turning is what gets you in trouble. With 2 motors turning, one on the edge of the wing, it will stall a turn VERY easily. Moving the stick all the way to the left or right turns it sharply into the ground. I've found that a very light 'flick' of the stick is enough to correct direction, and turning requires a 'pulsing' of the stick, never going 100% over. It's hard to test this completely in wind like this, where it's a sufficient challenge just to keep it from blowing away (had a lot of fun just hovering it in the wind at 1/3 throttle), so I'll have to give another report after flying in calm air. Will try to get some video of it as well.

As it flies faster, and weighs more, it also crashes hard. I broke one of the struts between the wings tonight, and frankly I'm surprised I didn't break anything else. With this kind of wind, it can get slammed into the pavement pretty hard. It's a blast while it's in the air though. Highly recommended mod!
Old 02-28-2006, 10:36 PM
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Some video from this afternoon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HYZfTwJ4Nc

Was WAY too windy, and too small a space. Weather meter said 20mph, and between the buildings it was really unpredictable and choppy. So flying wasn't so great, but you get an idea hopefully. Will bust out the camera again when the wind calms down--hopefully that'll be in the next few days.
Old 03-02-2006, 11:58 AM
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Despite the high winds, I think one thing I came away from the latest testing was that the plane needs more lift to accomodate the extra weight. It can fly as is, but the stall speed is quite high. So I've added 3" to the wings, with a bit of a dihedral. It makes an incredible difference! I can toss it and it will just glide down (as opposed to 'crashing down'), and I can fly it slow enough that I can almost fly it around the office--though the turning radius is too large to turn around without turn stalling. Seems much more stable now. Unfortunately, it's STILL windy outside, so I can't get the full effect. It should be good though, it just keeps getting better with each revision.

Old 03-03-2006, 05:17 PM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

very interested in this design. Please keep us posted as to how this plane flies.
Old 03-03-2006, 05:23 PM
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Winds calmed down a bit today, so I got another chance to play with it. With the wing extentions it is much more floaty and susceptable to variations in the wind. The extra length also seems to make it a bit harder for it to level out of a turn without losing a lot of altitude, making it difficult to control in anything but absolute still conditions. They may just need to be trimmed back a bit--hard to know what length is best

Regardless it does fly, it's faster, it gets higher, it's just kinda tricky.
Old 03-03-2006, 07:53 PM
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Well, we've had really nice weather today, so I took my Slow Stick and my Quad out to the lake front park this afternoon. After depleting the SS battery, I busted out the quad. FINALLY got to do some flying on a calm day in a big open space.

With the lower wing on, and wing extensions, it just handles ridiculously. Going straight its fine (though you can't get it to go down if you have any throttle at all), but in turns its just too messy, easily rolling over into a dive. So about half way through my flights with it, I tore the lower wings off. It does much better with just the upper wing, lift is not a problem at all. In fact, I think it may still have too much, and I think I'm going to trim down the wing extensions some more.

With just the upper wing I had a blast flying it around. Despite the excessive lift, it's quick, and you can do some cool tight turns. Even got it to barrel roll a couple times (though not necessarily on purpose ). It's also easy to find the edge of radio range, I had to work to keep it down low enough and close enough to keep in in range.

Tried with and without a dime in the nose. Everytime I put the dime in (with and without the lower wings) flight seemed to suffer. It seems to be pretty well balanced as is; guess the dual batteries and elec's balance it out. Looking forward to more flights with it
Old 03-03-2006, 09:11 PM
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Alright, trimmed about 1.5" off the wing extensions (leaving about 1.5"), put the dime back in the nose, and took her out.

Amazing! That's what I think of the quad now. It flies straight, it flys fast, and it turns with control. You can still overdo the turn, but that's actually pretty fun if you get it up a ways and and pull out of the spiral. I think I'm done with tweaking, and about ready to call this one good.

So final (sort of) specs for the Aero Ace Quad:

-Extra motors placed about .5" in from leading edge of top wing (blades stick out from the side a bit), with the other components installed as described earlier.
-Lower wings removed, upper wings extended 1.5" with some upward dihedral angle (can use the wings from the donor plane).
-Front of nose reinforced with fiber-reinforced tape, dime or similar weight in the nose.
Old 03-04-2006, 08:03 PM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

Finally got some video for you guys! Didn't have a friend around to help me, so I just had to prop up the camera on the car and get what I could. Because the plane is so small, I was afraid the downsampling that YouTube does would make it really hard to see (its difficult already as is) so I've gone ahead and hosted the full VGA size video for you guys. Help me save some bandwidth though and save this locally to your hard drive if you want to watch it more than once. If this gets too many hits I may have to take it down, so get it while you can

http://www.sxates.com/video/quadflight030406.wmv

Wind was 5-10mph, moving left to right from the video's perspective.
Old 03-05-2006, 07:50 AM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

Thanks for the cool video. Looks like the "qad" works really well.
Old 03-05-2006, 08:02 AM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

Going into the spiral with a lot of rudder may be caused by not enough rudder area. Try taping some depron to the front of the fin and see if it helps. May stop the nose dropping so drastically. May not help but it's fun to experiment.
Old 03-05-2006, 11:17 AM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

Good idea flypaper, I hadn't thought about adjusting the tail surfaces. Will have to give that a shot. It's kinda fun putting it into a dive though
Old 04-01-2006, 02:21 PM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

I'm wondering if it would make a difference to front-mount the second set of engines (reverse the sides/blades).. that way you could add more weight to the front without the added weight of a coin....
Old 04-01-2006, 03:24 PM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

You probably could, but really I think the added weight actually benefits the plane when it speeds up. Because your elevator control is based on throttle, and not flaps, if it's too light it just takes off vertically. That's why I added weight to mine, because with the speed 4 motors gives you, you get a lot more lift--too much really to keep it near the ground an in range easily.

I'd encourage you to give it a shot and see how it works though. You could always add more weight anyway later if it's not enough. Reversing the motors will introduce some complications though I imagine
Old 05-22-2006, 05:44 AM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

sxates, very very nice video I actually prefer vids with stationery cameras so I get less dizzy. And a very nice backdrop you have there Nothing compares to lotsa tweaking and have the final version working exactly as you'd want it to. I know it cuz I am also into airsofting hehe. And recently picked up an AA from the stores, what a mistake now I am owned! Gonna try me landing gear mod tonite hehe.
Old 05-23-2006, 01:32 PM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

to stop the dodgy turning is there not a way of dissabling the outside motors in turning. not dissable them. jus keep then the same speed instead of changing.
Old 05-23-2006, 01:43 PM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

I don't know of a way to do that, no.
Old 05-23-2006, 02:01 PM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

wit the 4 motoros can u get any true verticle performance? as in just throttle up and it fly out of ure hand?
Old 05-23-2006, 02:48 PM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

No, there isn't enough thrust to go vertical. You have to remember that while it has twice the power, it also has twice the weight.
Old 05-23-2006, 05:02 PM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

have you tried using 4 motors on one RX and one lipo? you could shave off around 5 grams, which might just put you close to the 1:1 thrust/weight ratio do you know how much it weighs?

nick
Old 05-23-2006, 05:18 PM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

I don't think I'm even close to a 1:1 thrust/weight ratio, even if I took out the extra rx and battery. This isn't a helicopter people
Old 05-24-2006, 03:38 AM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

my stock AA with the lower wings removed comes in at 17.6 grams. add two more motors and you'd be at just over 20 grams. so you're not that far away from 1:1. if you were to shave some weight off the fuse, lightened the RX and did some other weight saving modifications, that little thing should be able to go straight up. granted, without an elevator, it would be hard to maintain a completely verticle path, but its fun knowing you could if you wanted! i may just have to try this, maybe use some didel 4.5ohm motors, that should give me more than 20 grams of thust with 4 motors. but then i might as well make a new airframe for it, and then i'm not even flying an AA anymore good thing i have enough projects to keep me busy...

nick
Old 05-24-2006, 03:32 PM
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Default RE: AeroAce Quad

how about moveing the 2nd pair of motors inside the original ones and on the bottom wind. this may sort out the turning problem??

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