One individual I respect who also is in the top 50 of F3A pilots in the nation believes strongly that "BRAKE" is a waste of energy and effort. Now that I'm looking for it, I admit I can't tell the difference between routines with BRAKE and those without. So now I'm curious: What percentage of E-prop-heads actually use BRAKE?

EDIT: I'm concerned that as usual I have over stated my case so let me re-phrase again. The individual with whom I spoke never used the words "waste of energy and effort". Those words were mine. Rather the sentiment was: Can YOU tell the difference between a routine using brake and routine that doesn't? For me the answer is no. That DOES NOT mean brake doesn't work; it just means that for most of us it may not be needed since we have so much more we can work on. At the end of the day though it is clearly a matter of preference


Joe

Joe, I found the brake feature on the Jeti Opto Spin unit to be more effective and user friendly for me than the Castle Creation HV units I tried for the last 3 years and gave up on. I feel it's a matter of personal preference. To each his own. Regards, Everette

Joe, I don't use it, but there is one place in the Masters sequence I might consider using it (Sq. Loop on Corner w/1/2 rolls).

For an Intermediate guy like you there is no need for it in the Intermediate Sequence.

I'm a K.I.S.S. kinda guy. If all I have to do is flip a switch for spin entry that's perfect for me.

PS- You missed out on a perfect weather contest.

Hey Joe,

I can't even tell you how disappointed I was not to go last weekend [&o] but my 10 year old son played the trump card and told me he really wanted me there to drop him off at camp in Maine and since it was his first "sleep away" camp and he was leaving for 6 weeks I didn't have the heart to leave him with just mom at the drop off . . . I know . . . I know everybody say: awwww

Anyways, thanks for chiming in, and here's to seeing you in Muncie!



Joe

I only use it for certain maneuvers, and absolutely yes there is a huge difference in a sequence flown with and without it on full time.

Could you elaborate Chad?

Bottom line -

If "you" can't notice a difference in brake on / brake off......probably best to not use it.

My opinion - a properly setup brake can have a pretty substantial effect on the downline speed. Not that all planes, props, motors, ESCs, flying styles, and weather conditions respond equally or benefit equally (if at all) from using the brake.

Regards,

And why should I be concerned about down line speed?

Tim

With it on full time the flight sucks!

Maybe you are not. However.....

If you ever feel rushed in a downline, slowing it down is helpful.

Technically, downline speed is not a judging criteria. However, equal roll segments within a maneuver should be matched (same rate). Looking at maneuvers like stall turn with half rolls, or top hat with 1/4 rolls, it is much easier to match the roll rates when the upline and downline speeds are similar.

Regards,

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dave, you are absolutely correct. I know what it feels like to try to do the downline legs of the Figure M in new Master's routine WITHOUT an effective brake let alone rocketing thru the inverted portion between the vertical legs as a result. It gives you that added conrol that you would not have otherwise. Just my thoughts, Everette

Thanks Dave,

I can see the advantage in that realm, I've always judged the roll rate and centering on the line. How much of the line gets eaten up by the roll isn't an issue but I can see how some would see it differently.

I thought a brake would be good for spin entry and landing if you came into them a bit hot.

I would prefer it to be on a switch I think. I set the brake up on my Spin 99 and to be honest I couldn't tell the brake was on anywhere. Then again I might have it set up wrong. I suspect me using auto end points instead of using the manual set points might also be a factor. I'm only 4 puffed batteries er months into electrics so far.

Tim

I like whoever said "flight sucks" with brake on the whole time I just noticed that for the first time this past weekend; I've had brake on since I started flying electric last year, but maybe now I'm getting to know my plane well enough or something.

Other thing to consider is how you use the brake, or how strong the brake is. I've got it set to stop the prop from spinning which now I think is a bad idea. Plane REALLY slows down which is good, sometimes, but doesn't feel right in down lines or when pulling out of them. Going to try a set idle RPM to use as a brake, to keep air moving over surfaces and for less of a "shock" for lack of a better term - when going from measureable RPM to 0 and vice versa.

I am flying intermediate by the way. There aren't any maneuvers with rolls on the down lines, but keeping my down line speed under control I think helps me pace my flight. Very easy for me to use too much throttle and burn up my batteries flying electric.

Joe, at the suggestion of a helpful judge I started adding throttle just as I began to pull out of a downline...pulling the airplane through the corner rather than relying on momentum. It looks better that way.
I think it's a matter of learning the quirks of electric vs. glow. With glow we always had some thrust, even at idle.
Scott

Tim,

I would not use it for spin entry. The brake is trying to stop the motor from spinning, so as you come into a spin, the prop will actually stop, which actually takes airflow off the tail and really doesn't help you slow down. I have a slow idle set for spin entry, which really helps. Also, brake on a stall turn is a bad thing, but as Dave and Chad said, there are places it can be very helpful.

Arch

On the braking issue, I am using the Castle 85 and yesterday the motor began a squeal and anything past half throttle the motor sounded weird... Having a friend helping me setup the braking feature on my Hacker Q80-13.. so thinking the Castle is acting up?? Could the braking setup have gone south on me in 6 flys?? Motor is not loose and is smooth up to and just past 1/2 throttle... Read somewhere that a over braked motor could make strange noises and actions from the motor... but having several great flights with Hacker and then yesterday...
IF the brake is causing this then will be throwing my hat in the ring for no braking...
Anyone experience this squealing and seeming vibrational noises from a brake setup??? Thanks! Charlie

Back to one of my original points -
- a properly setup brake can have a substantial effect, and be of great benefit. And no...I can't give exact setup details for a proper brake setup or the use of it for all planes, motors, props, and pilots.

As a starting point with the Castle ESCs....use software 3.2x.......30% brake strength, medium ramp, no delay.

Use a 3 position switch to activate a mix (from any unused channel) to the throttle such that Pos 0 is brake on, Pos 1 is slowest possible idle, and Pos 2 is fast idle. Use a throttle switch or offset so that the mix is only active below 10% throttle so the top end and midrange are not affected by the mix. You will find virtually no difference in terminal downline speeds with freewheel, lowest possible idle, or fast idle.

I use Pos 2 for stall turns and spins....the added idle speed keeps the tail from going "dead", and is more consistent for me than holding a couple clicks of throttle.

I use Pos 0 for the remainder of the flight, so the brake is active whenever I go to full idle....and I do not go to full idle on every downline or the backside of every loop.

I use Pos 1 on very windy days when I fly the entire pattern faster, and have no need for the brake.

If the brake is set too aggressively, the initial effect is a (sometimes) dramatic slowing of the plane, and then the plane accelerates again as prop disk effectively becomes more"porous" when the RPM is too slow. There is an ideal RPM for maximum braking, and most ESCs have the capacity to slow the prop below that RPM.

Regards,

Charlie,

Yes, an over braked motor can have issues when restarting in the air. This would happen immediately when the stick leaves idle....not at 1/2 throttle (or 1/4 throttle, or 3/4 throttle). I've never seen a braking setup go south.....I have seen a pilots flying technique change after adapting to the brake....which means the brake setup could/should be tweaked. I have yet to see a Castle setup that has a problem with restarts in the air with the brake at 30% or less. Some setups can run substantially higher brake strength, but, 30% is pretty close to the maximum effectiveness for the majority of geared inrunners and outrunners I've played with - Neu F3A, Hacker xx-XL, AXI 53xx, Plett Evo, Hacker A60-xxX.

Squealing at 1/2 throttle or more would generally / more likely fall in the category of a timing loss, which most often occurs at high power levels, OR when a bad connector or bad solder joint is present - in which case there is also often inconsistent starting of the motor. If you have recently tried some new lipos, or flown in higher temps, the higher power from the lipos may be effectively what is causing the squeal.....and this should be minimal with 3.20 or higher software and the right settings in the ESC. I have not run the Q80 personally, but very likely the best settings for it will be low timing and OR PWM, and you may want to experiment with start power. Low start power is preferred IF the motor starts smoothly without any chatter or rocking. If the motor does not start smoothly and consistently, increase the start power.

Regards,

Thanks Dave,
Restarting isn't the issue, as the motor seems to be running, maybe free-wheeling then, not sure, I am WAY too new to understand IF that is occuring here...
But starts up to and including 1/2 throttle same old motor..:-)) But saying that a slight squeal is heard just prior to 1/2 throttle that wasn't heard before and goes away quickly, but this terrible growling seeming to sound similiar to a prop coming off comes on and I dare not push that issue... so landing is next in the schedule after that..
Will look into the power settings as you suggested... Thanks! Charlie

I think you're hearing the prop cavitate. Mine does it in certain slow speed low rpm maneuvers like the 1/2 roll out of inverted after the spins. Really deep sounding almost rattle like.

Tim