barnowljenx

Just wondered what incidence folks are using on their Anthems in order to get them to fly without pitching to the canopy on a vertical climb?

I started with 0.7 deg but have steadily increased this to 1.2 to 1.25 deg at which point the aircraft flies hands off on a vertical upline. My thinking was that as you add more incidence you need to add more down elevator trim to maintain level flight. In a vertical climb, the main wing provides zero lift and any nose up pitching is dealt with by the increased down elevator trim required for S&L flying.

YmeF3A

Hello,
I use 0.5°
that's the only thing I know.
sorry

SAB

Peter,
What about Motor thrust (up/down), that also has a significant effect on the upline, in your case more downthrust required.
The WindS pro & MythoS both have 1.5 upthrust, unusual in an F3A plane, emailed designer (Seba Silvestri) and he said it was required for the plane to go straight on the upline.
On my Element Contra I needed to slightly adjust the thrust line to get the model to fly straight up (wing incidence kept at +0.7), not really a surprise as I converted the model from conventional drive to contra so initial downthrust was a best guess.

Steve

YmeF3A

I fly with contra. If iam correct ian at 0° with contra. But didnt checkt it. My dad build the plane. Iam just flying and looking how he is building.

barnowljenx

Hi SAB

I should have prefaced my comment with "I've tried the down thrust route but there was insufficient space between the nose ring and spinner and the spinner lost!" I had a 2.5 mm gap all round the nose ring to begin with but that proved insufficient. Hence, the other route to jack up the wing incidence. If it had pitched to the u/c I would have reduced the wing incidence till the aircraft flew straight up hands off.

barnowljenx

Hi SAB

I should have prefaced my comment with "I've tried the down thrust route but there was insufficient space between the nose ring and spinner and the spinner lost!" I had a 2.5 mm gap all round the nose ring to begin with but that proved insufficient. Hence, the other route to jack up the wing incidence. If it had pitched to the u/c I would have reduced the wing incidence till the aircraft flew straight up hands off.
On my Element, I didn't have to make any up/down thrust adjustments. I guess that says more about the variation in airframe build than anything else.

barnowljenx

Thanks YME. Does your Anthem go straight vertically hands off with that setup?

YmeF3A

Yes if I am correct.
hope this helps

Yme

barnowljenx

Very interesting. Thanks.

f3a05

Dunno if it's possible on your contra setup,but there's often enough length on the prop shaft, to allow a washer to act as a spacer,to push the spinner back plate forward a bit.
Again, if it's possible, a simple domed prop nut at the front end replaces the entire spinner (and is convenient for quick changes of prop when experimenting with different props).

YmeF3A

T



I found some pictures of how my dad did it. I hope this helps.



Here is my model flying.
After 150 flights i can say i love this model.
I use Futaba so when you want my settings I can send them to you.


Yme

barnowljenx

There is the opportunity to use a larger spacer on the rear shaft but that required me to go back to Debowski to get them so, as I needed some extra grip between the drive washer and prop I used a couple of sheets of emery paper that provided the improved grip on the prop and provided the spacing increase I was after! However, I eventually went back to a very slight down thrust and used the increase in incidence to do the job I was after. I think I'm almost there with the incidence at 1.2 deg ish.

Adam provides 3D printed spinners and these are retained by the prop nuts so no multiple 2 mm screws to undo when you want to remove the prop. As regards experimenting with props I don't do that with carbon props! I took Adam's recommendation of 23x20 front and rear. That provides loads of power, 3,600 w with a fresh pack at wide open throttle! I might drop down to 22x20 in due course.

barnowljenx

Thanks YME. I have just counted up and I've flown 150 flights exactly with my Anthem - not as many as I would have liked for various reasons. The combination of the Debowski contra, the D3 ESCs and the Anthem is a package that I think is the best I've ever had. I use JR so I'll pass on your kind offer of your Futaba settings but I'm sure others might be interested.

YmeF3A

Alright no problem.
I use the dualsky CRS 3000 with 22x20 front and rear. This gives a wide range of speed and has very much power. My speed in the upline is 85kmh and in the dowline 100kmh. But i it looks almost the same. So iam very happy.

barnowljenx

What ESC are you using YME?

YmeF3A

Hello Barno
I use the D3 esc from Adam.
really good esc never want to switch again.
I choose for dualsky because its the cheaptest of al. 750 euro.
so I wanted to try.

Yme

barnowljenx

Hi YME, I am also using the D3, two of them actually as each motor has its own ESC! I also found that the downline speed was higher than my selected horizontal datum speed. I fixed that by reducing the idle rpm from the 1,500 that Adam suggests progressivley until it is now 1,200 rpm and that has equalised the downline speed with horizontal and vertical speeds. Worth doing as you will be penalised for not having a constant flight speed by the judges,

YmeF3A

Hello,
thanks for the tip.
I don't know how much rpm my props are spinning.
next year I am gonna use telemetry so I am gonna experiment with it.
Many people coach me and they never said my plane is going to fast in the downline. But when you can get the speed as close as possible is always better. For time in downline etc. The plus point of the upline is that there is sound of the motor and props. This gives a weird effect because people think my plane is even to fast in the upline. So I am definitely gonna experiment with it. But as now iam happy.

Maybe you already know but my english is not very good. Sorry when you dont understand some things.

barnowljenx

YME, you are ahead of me as I would not be able to write as well as you in a language other than English!

For telemetry, I use a small sensor made by SM Modelbau called a Unisens-E. It fits between the battery and the ESC and provides a lot of information. It provides the following information:
1. Main pack voltage, current and power in watts
2. Rx voltage if you do not already get that
3. Flight pack capacity remaining - you have to enter the capacity of your pack plus you can set an alarm. My alarm is set when there is only 950 mAh remaining
4. Height - this if very useful when you need to check how high your aircraft is - e.g. in P25, you need to be at the top of the box to start and this parameter can be checked so that you can get used to what the aircraft looks like at the top of the box ~ 850 ft.
5. Motor RPM
6. There are other features that I do not use such as a variometer if you fly a glider
7. You can get max and min values in flight but before you disconnect the drive pack only,
8. The Unisens-E can be configured by you, you need to buy their USB lead, on your PC to speak to all the major Radio brands.

You get all this for Euro 65 plus shipping cost. You do not need to buy any other sensors.

YmeF3A

Yes I already saw that one on the internet and wanted to try it .
I now use the original from futaba but only nows how much amps you pull, voltage, and comsumtion.
the bad thing about that one is that you always have to rest it before you fly.
Do you also need to rest the unisn-e ( the one you use. )
Everytime when I set my transmitter on there is already 3000mAh -4000mAh used because of the flight I did before. So every time I turn my radio on I need to restart the telemetry. That just a little frustrating because sometimes I forget it.

barnowljenx

The Unisense loses all the data as soon as you unplug the main drive batteries are disconnected! So, every flight starts off with the pack capacity you loaded into your Tx. There is another, slightly more expensive system, called the Unilog, that has a mini SD card in it and that records every flight for you to analyse off line on your PC.

YmeF3A

Hello,
thanks. I will use unisens.
for the price very good I think

RuneG

can I ask you what is your max A ,if you dont has ATV the trow down?
I have tried a diffrent ESC than you but I dont get more than ca 75-80 A on this I also tried a old school Jeti and this gave me ca 110A (to much)!
I think maybe the other esc is some way not abel to give full power
I have 22X22 falcon front and back

YmeF3A

Max amp is 72 amps if Iam correct. But I reduces to 93%. Next season I try 100% but 93% was already engough power. With the rolling 8 in the F23 would have liked a little bit more power.
the dualsky is 3000 watt max so about 80 Amps.