I know of the 5s4p packs being using and have read of 5s3p being used But I have even seen ZNLINE selling 5s2p pack, any insights???

It sure would be good if the people running Electric F3A setups would give us the time to tell us how they are doing it. Thanks, Mike

My setup is as follows,

Plettenberg Xtra 25-13 (currently testing props with the new 30-10 motor)
Schulze 32.55K ESC
Thunder Power 5s4p 5300 Prolites
Schulze ISL6-330D chargers (2 of them)
TP 5 cell balancers on every charge whether required or not (although testing shows the packs to hold balance brilliantly).
APC 19x12W e-prop (on the 25-13 motor)

The 25-13 setup spins the 19x12W prop at 6400 RPM and pulls around 65A static on the ground, getting around 2300-2400W. In the air the peak draw is down to around 60A. The packs are rated to do 70A continuous, with up to 109A burst so this is well within the packs during flight. This setup does not have the power of a Hacker setup but is more than enough to fly the FAI sequences.

I dont have enough time and testing with the new 30-10 motor to fully comment, but it is more powerful and once I get the prop size figured out should compete very closely with the Hackers for power.

I have around 200 flights on the 25-13 motor with the packs at around 40-50 cycles each, in all that time I have not had a single issue. I keep my discharges to 80% or less if possible although I have on one flight discharged to 93% by accident. I series charge the packs to shorten the charging time, and will be getting the new Thunder Power chargers to increase the charge current on 10s as the Schulze 330D will only do around 3A on 10s. To charge 2 10s packs at 5A requires roughly 600W power supply which are tough to find at reasonable prices (try ebay for IOTA supplies).

Anyways thats about it, no magic just all off the shelf parts :-) I think the key to doing this succesfully is managing the details, knowing your temperatures (I temp after every flight), knowing the time limit for flying and understanding that different altitudes will affect how long you can fly. The killers are heat, overdischarge, and overcharge (with Thunder Powers new chargers and balancer interaction this will be a thing of the past), keep those in check and you should have few if any problems.

I have not pumped a drop of fuel this year, I find that a good electric setup is much more reliable and very user friendly compared to glow. I hope to cycle out the packs this season so I have a good idea of what life can be expected from them.

My set up goes as follows

Hacker C50-14XL 6.7:1 ratio
Hacker master 90o speed control
Thunder power 2-5s4p 5300's (10s total)
2 astro flight 109's for charging
I also use the TP balancers every flight.
22x12 apc e prop

On this set up on the ground I am pulling about 65amps at around 2700watts. This has a ton of power for my Brio I have flown this combo about 70 times including the Nats and have had nothing but great things to say about electric. I have broke a gear box on my motor this was caused from to many flights. It was in Peter Collinsons Genesis then transfored to mine so at about 125 flights it let go. We have found that the gear box should be regreased after about every 50 flights. It is a very simple process and can be done at the field in about 30 minutes.

For flight time I usually fly about 9 minutes and put back about 3800 mah into the packs just to keep charge time down when practicing. I really like the electric as there is no worry when going to the field wondering if my motor is going to start and so on. You dont have to worry about getting the idle to low where it will die.

Maybe Todd Blose will chim in here as he was running the Hacker 13xl and see what he has to say about this setup.

Andrew Jesky

Andrew: I too use two Astro 109s to charge my 5S3P 6000 packs and just received two TP balancers but haven't used them yet. When you're using the balancers during charging with the Astro 109s, does the charge time increase?

Mike Moritko

Mike,

The charge time does not increase. A quick word of advice when using the 109's my chargers will charge the packs to different levels. one charger peaks at 20.95 volts and the other at 20.80volts. This is the chargers doing this. If you have a watt meter check the two packs after charging and see if they do this. If so what I would recommend would be after the charge is complete put the lower pack on the higher charger and let it run at 2 amps. We did this at the nats and it put almost 300 mah more into quiques pack.

Andrew

Andrew,

Can you advise what generic type of grease should be used so that I can get it here in the UK?

My Hacker C5013XL/Opto 90 Acro has done 60 trouble free flights on 10S3P Flightpower (Duralite) 6600 mAHr packs. Prop is 21 x 14 or 22 x 12 APCE for over 2700W input power.

A bonus is there is no goop to wipe off after a flying session!

Malcolm Harris

Man this is spot on the info that I'm looking for. Could we get some ballpark figures on the costs involved with the equipment being used? I figure I have from now until next April to get the funds up. Of course I will have my IC Smaragd backup just in case. Thanks again, Mike

I did notice that Thunderpower did update there website this morning with dates for there new chargers.
Steve

Steve, that update was done about two weeks ago. I talked to Thunder Power two days ago, and they said the charger was still at least two weeks out, probably more, and the 10 cell balancer in the 2 week range. Thunder Power's initial ETA for the charger was February, and they've missed about 5 delivery dates now, so don't plan to own the charger until a store claims it is in stock.

Thanks Adam I'm not buying now still trying to figure out what works best.
thanks

For my setup

Plettenberg Xtra 25-13 - $419

Schulze 32.55K ESC - $329

Thunder Power 5s4p 5300 Prolites - $320 for 5s, so $640 for a full set

Schulze ISL6-330D chargers (2 of them) - $199 each, but not enough power for 10s charging beyond 3A (it will do 5s up to 5.5A)....recommend the TP charger when its released @$180. Then you technically only need 1 charger, however 2 would do two full packs at once. So if you had two packs, you could fly twice wait and hour and fly twice more....not a bad setup.

TP 5 cell balancers on every charge whether required or not (although testing shows the packs to hold balance brilliantly) - $58.95 (you should have a pair though)

Connectors wire - Deans Ultra connectors, and wetnoodle 12 guage wire....dont waste time or money with the Astro connectors. High quality 4mm bullets will work as well.

Power Supply - at least 45A, 12.5V output. Check Ebay, RC Groups etc. I got a couple of RCG for $25 each, but you can easily spend upwards of $120 on a power supply. Of note mine is a dual channel (18A each line) and is not capable of charging more than 4A on 10s.

Some sort of field charging method (if needed) - gell cell (deep cycle), generator etc. I use a pair of 28 Ah deep cycle gell cells, which will get me 3 or so charges at the field....but I have 4 packs so I rarely charge at the field more than once.

The actual drive system is cheaper than the glow, think......you dont need a Hyde mount, exhaust, tank, servo, nose ring etc etc....so you save enough there to get the chargers. Basically from numbers I have used to compare the only true difference is the batteries....and at 200 cycles its cost for cost roughly with running a 160DZ.

The trick is keeping up with the charging...if you forget or are too lazy to do it you dont fly. You need to plan out a routine and stick to it I find and you will always have packs ready to go, this is especially important at a contest. I typically charge during work (charging right now in fact LOL) so I am ready to fly at lunch or after work.

That really sucks man :-) The Schulzes hit within 0.005V almost on every charge....when charging seperately they dont often vary by more than 50 mAh. A pack of mine just finished charging and hot off the charger one was 20.999 and the other was 21.002. Depending on how deep you discharge the packs dictates how close they need to be.....if you are going further than 80% discharge 0.01V between the packs should be the most.

The new 10 cell balancer will eliminate this problem as it will match the pack voltages while charging.

Malcolm,

I will try and find out what grease. I have asked sean but he just sent me some instead of telling me. My brother who makes transmitions for NHRA cars said the stuff shawn sent was called engine honey used in automobiles.

As for prices on my stuff it goes as follows

Hacker C50-14XL-$429
Hacker master 90-o- $439
Thunderpower 5s4p 5300- $320 for a 5s $640 for a complete flight set
2- thunderpower balancers $58 a piece
2-Astro 109's- $119 a piece
1 18amp power supply switching type with built in cooling fan-$59
1 honda EU1000I generator-$450 on ebay

Not having to clean your plane when done flying-PRICELESS! LOL J/K

I had to put that in there because it sounded like a mastercard commercial


I know it sucks about the 109 I just figured that out about a week before the Nats. Also I have found that with 2 10s packs and 4 chargers I can fly all day and really do not have any delay. The delays start when batteries are waiting to be charged. Verne Koester figured this out so instead of having 3 sets of batteries save the extra money for 2 more chargers and another powersupply and you will be able to fly all day. I have been witness to this as I only had 2 packs up until a week before the Nats when I got a third set. We could fly all day usually 3 people take a rotation at flying and I would never be waiting for batteries waiting to complete charge.

Also, like Chad said the figures keep up with a YS 160 burning a gallon of 23 dollar fuel every 6 flights. It is like anything else the initial cost is hight but if you figure these packs to last 500-800 cycles it saves you money.

Andrew

Thanks guys now we are getting somewhere. Now I have to sell some more stuff and get a decent bonus at work and I'm half way there. It should be fun.
At this time we are looking at the Genesis as a platform. Mike

Mike,

I have flown the Genesis and it does fly good. I think the quality could be a little better. A disadvantage would have to be the fiberglass fuse. It is pretty weak. On my brio we took out the honeycomb flooring as it did not need it for strength. I built both of petes planes and we had to leave that flooring in as I was worried about the fuse cracking right behind the wing. Like I said it is a good airplane but I would recommend getting the kit and doing everything yourself. Petes pink genesis came in super light at 10pounds 9oz. I have worked on them so if you have any questions PM me and we can talk about them.

Andrew

What dealers have you guys been getting your electric gear from?

Who keeps this stuff in stock and at a fair price?

It seems like a telemetry system like the Eagletree would be ideal for keeping track of what is going on before it is too late to save. You (your helper) could monitor motor, controller and battery temperatures, voltage, current and amp-hrs consumed. You could also set alarms if any of these parameters got out of limits. As this would add a few ounces one would probably remove it after he established consistent results. Any thoughts?

Jim O

TC, my Thunder Power items come from Draganfly Innovations (parts.rctoys.com). Plettenberg motor and Schulze ESC and charger from icare-rc.com.

My two Astro 109s will charge packs to within about .15 volts of each other. When both packs come off the chargers, I check the voltage and then connect them in parallel using a home made harness. With a .15 volt difference between the packs, the current flow from one pack to the other is not a problem. I then connect the paralleled packs to the Astro 109 which consistently charges to a higher voltage. The current pot on the charger is turned all the way down until mode 1 is about 10 seconds from being completed (mode 1 takes 3 minutes) and the pot is then turned up to around 4 amps. Upon completion of mode 1, the 109 will then jump through mode 2 to mode 3 and continue charging the packs. Since the packs are in parallel, they are also becoming balanced relative to each other. After about 10 minutes, the two packs are nearly identical in voltage (within a few thousandths of a volt as measured with a calibrated Fluke digital meter). While everyone would like to see 500 cycles from each and every LiPo pack, that is not likely to be the case with today's state of the art. One of my TP5S3P 6000 Lite packs lasted 12 flights before it "puffed". Luckily, TP examined the pack and replaced it for free. Since I'm not a sponsored flyer, the cost of LiPos is a serious consideration and a significant concern when LiPo failures occur. LiPos will degrade just sitting on the shelf. Their life span depends upon how hard they're pushed, how many charge/discharge cycles they've gone through, and how they're stored. If stored at full charge, they will degrade faster. Ideally, when not being used, they should be kept at around 3.7 volts/cell. When used, they should not be depleted beyond about 80% of their charge. If they are pushed to the limit of their capacity, they will degrade quickly. I switched to electric power about two years ago after flying glow engines for over 50 years. I'm not sorry to see vibration and oil covered models fall by the wayside; however, electric models have overhead. I check motor RPM about every 5 flights and use a watt meter to check current flow every 5 to 10 flights. I'm looking for abnormal readings which could indicate a cell going bad in the LiPo pack or the magnets in the motor becoming demagetized. A demagged motor will seem normal until you connect a watt meter at which point you'll see an increased current flow which could damage the LiPo pack and/or destroy the ESC. After each flight, the motor and LiPo pack temperature is checked. After each flight and before charging, the voltage of the packs is checked. The voltage is also checked after coming off the charger. When charging, the packs must absolutely not be left alone. If overcharged, they can ignite violently. In addition, a cell which goes bad within a pack can catch fire during the charge routine. If the cells are overdischarged, generally they will be ruined. So.....I guess the point I'm trying to make for those who have not made the jump to electric, is there is a learning curve associated with electric pattern and in reality, there's quite a bit of overhead associated with utilizing electric power in a safe and responsible way. For me, it has been a "shot in the arm" that has resulted in new enthusiasm for R/C aerobatics after having done it for many, many years. I would not go back to glow or gas.

Mike Moritko

Hi Chad,
I see you are using Thunder power batteries now. Enlighten us on what happened to the Apogee packs you were using?

Sorry for getting my info here late, but here is what I ran at the Nats this year.
I ran the Hacker C50 13XL and the Master 90-O-Acro speed controller.
I also ran the motor on a Hyde soft mount with a nose ring
The batteries are Thunder power TP5300-5S4P with a APC 20 x 13 E prop.
The Charger is a Astro Flight D109 and I have 2 of them.
The 90 amp speed controller works very well, But you can also use the Master 77-O-Flight
controller with the same results. That is what Chip had in the Biplane and it works very well.
Hope this helps

Todd,
Way to go this year at the Nats. Sorry I couldnt make it. New job and not enough time.

I will be asking lots of questions as I will be getting an electric Genesis soon. I am going to be running the HackerC50-13XL. I am not sure about the speed controller.

Where did you get your chargers? I would like to get a couple of those as well.

Thanks Trent,
We got our chargers from Astro flight. As far as the speed controller thr 77 amp will work fine.

Todd,

Did you get a chance to measure the RPM, watts of your Hacker C50-13XL and APC 20-13e combination? I would like to compare your numbers to my -14XL and 22-12e set up. By the way, Ron Barr and myself have ordered some Genesis kits.

Thanks,

Steve K.