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TP 4200 vs. TP 5300 LiPo Batteries

Old 05-29-2006, 01:53 PM
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xalm04
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Default TP 4200 vs. TP 5300 LiPo Batteries

Hi, I´m an ecuadorian pattern flyier and at the moment I´m looking to change to electrics, and nobody here or in Colombia has flown e-pattern yet, so I feel like a little guinea pig . My first option is a Hacker C50 14XL, Acro 90 ESC with 2 TP 5300-5S4P, however I´ve found that a single package of the TP 4200-10S2 could do fine, and most important saves 9 oz. Since I fly in Quito, which is at 9.000 feet of altitude!!!!! I´d like to know what have been your experience on these two configurations, and if there is a considerable lower charge consumption with the lighter batteries. Some experience from Colorado (7.000 feet) would be incredible!!! We are preparing a good F3A team for Argentina so please, any comments or suggestions about this big change in our pattern lifestyle would be highly appreciated. Thanks.

Xavier Almeida
Old 05-30-2006, 06:54 AM
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Magne
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Default RE: TP 4200 vs. TP 5300 LiPo Batteries

Hello Xavier.
I do not know how the altitude will affect your battery consumption, but using TP 6000 mAh packs in a model weighing close to 5 kg/11 lbs (at sea level) I regularly consume between 4000 and 4500 mAh for a P07 flight. In my model, with my flying style, the 4200 mAh packs would simply not have enough capacity.
Regards,
Magne
Old 05-30-2006, 09:41 AM
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rm
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Default RE: TP 4200 vs. TP 5300 LiPo Batteries

I agree with Magne. I haven't seen any TP packs that actually cycled to the mah they're rated at, at least I haven't been able to get any of them to. If you want them to last, you'll only want to use about 80% of they're capacity. 5300's you shouldn't have any prob making weight. 6000's you have to be careful, depends a lot on the planes initial weight out of the box, but is usually doable. Altitude effect, never flown at that elevation. You would have to be very throttle cautious with the 4200's and keep a close eye on your voltage to see how long you could actually fly. I think you'd really be pushing it.
Old 05-30-2006, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: TP 4200 vs. TP 5300 LiPo Batteries

Xavier, check out this article about electrics at high altitude: [link=http://www.rcgroups.com/links/index.php?id=3829]http://www.rcgroups.com/links/index.php?id=3829[/link]
Old 05-30-2006, 10:08 AM
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Default RE: TP 4200 vs. TP 5300 LiPo Batteries

Hi Xavier

I'm still a newbie to E, but have 150+ E pattern flights so far with the F3A C50-14, Acro-90, 5400 Falcon 5S2P(2), and APC 21x14E. Like Magne I fly at sea level - but my results are a bit different. I see typical power consumption of 3300 mAh (rarely above 3700 mAh in the worst conditions) for P-07 flights of 8 to 8.5 min. Flying style can greatly affect power consumption - more full throttle - more power consumed. I suspect that lower pitch props encourage more throttle to maintain desired speed. Anyway, my results suggest the 4200 packs could work and provide the desired weight saving. Higher % discharge might shorten pack life - but there're no clear data with the newer packs on this.

Another consideration is that a motor (with things being proper) will turn about the same rpm/v @ various loads with current draw and heat output varying. At altitude the prop will need to be increased in pitch / diameter to provide desired speed / thrust at power loads experienced at sea level. A starting point might be to find a prop that produces a max throttle current draw near 60A. Care will also be necessary in providing cooling airflow - as thinner air cools less efficiently.

Earl
Old 05-30-2006, 01:07 PM
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Default RE: TP 4200 vs. TP 5300 LiPo Batteries

Hey thanks guys!!!! all your feedback is incredible.

That article was pure gold BrunoH, it confirms what Earl also suggests, we should have an advantage using electrics vs. glow engines in highlands.

Also some messages I´ve received have made me question about my Hacker option. It seems AXI motors delivers more power than Hackers, can anybody confirm this? If you were I, and have a white paper sheet to begin with what configuration you´d choose?

Magne, I wonder if your flying style uses more high throttle, or it´s just because the heavier plane. If the first is the case I should expect that consumption in my first flights, since glow flight here needs use of full throttle most of the time. Neither way my first option seems to be 5300 just to have room for error.
Old 05-30-2006, 01:10 PM
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Default RE: TP 4200 vs. TP 5300 LiPo Batteries

BrunoCH, what motor and prop are you using?
Old 05-30-2006, 04:41 PM
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Default RE: TP 4200 vs. TP 5300 LiPo Batteries

ORIGINAL: EHFAI

Hi Xavier

I'm still a newbie to E, but have 150+ E pattern flights so far with the F3A C50-14, Acro-90, 5400 Falcon 5S2P(2), and APC 21x14E. Like Magne I fly at sea level - but my results are a bit different. I see typical power consumption of 3300 mAh (rarely above 3700 mAh in the worst conditions) for P-07 flights of 8 to 8.5 min. Flying style can greatly affect power consumption - more full throttle - more power consumed. I suspect that lower pitch props encourage more throttle to maintain desired speed. Anyway, my results suggest the 4200 packs could work and provide the desired weight saving. Higher % discharge might shorten pack life - but there're no clear data with the newer packs on this.

Another consideration is that a motor (with things being proper) will turn about the same rpm/v @ various loads with current draw and heat output varying. At altitude the prop will need to be increased in pitch / diameter to provide desired speed / thrust at power loads experienced at sea level. A starting point might be to find a prop that produces a max throttle current draw near 60A. Care will also be necessary in providing cooling airflow - as thinner air cools less efficiently.

Earl
Hi Earl

What rpm do you spin on that setup with the 21x14?
Old 05-30-2006, 04:52 PM
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Default RE: TP 4200 vs. TP 5300 LiPo Batteries

Hi Chad, maybe you don´t remember me from Ireland 2001 WC. I´m looking for a change to e-pattern, and I had it very clear to have a Hacker until I began to research, and AXI appears on the move. What motor do you use or would recommend? Thanks.
Old 05-30-2006, 07:54 PM
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Default RE: TP 4200 vs. TP 5300 LiPo Batteries

Glad I could help [8D]

I use the Hacker C50 14XL and APC 21x13WE, average comsumption of about 3600 mAh for a P07 flight.

I have no experience with the AXI and I might be wrong on this, but based on the numbers I´ve seen it is not more powerful than the Hackers.
Old 05-30-2006, 08:09 PM
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Default RE: TP 4200 vs. TP 5300 LiPo Batteries

Chad

Static it turns 5650, max level flight is 6050. (Haven't compared volts in both conditions - increase could be more batt warm-up than dynamic prop load.)
Old 05-31-2006, 06:44 AM
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Default RE: TP 4200 vs. TP 5300 LiPo Batteries

Hello.

I do not want to start a discussion about if AXI is better/more-powerfull then Hacker/Plettenberg.
Just share the info I have from my setup:

AXI-5330/F3A
APC 20x13
TP-6000
ZNline Evolis about 4.7Kg

With this setup in windy conditions, I use also about 3500-3700mAh's for a P07.

I think the AXI is just another good motor for F3A, a bit heavier then the Hacker/plettenberg but also a lot cheaper. And if you read around on the several forums on the web I think most people are happy with the AXI's.

One thing that I would like to change is to have a dynamic brake on my speed-controller. Now the props is spining up a lot on the downlines. I think a motor with gearbox will brake a little bit more without the assistance of the controller. I think this is something to do with the outrunners. So in some weeks I will switch from the Hacker P90 to a CC-85HV.

Good flying ;-)

Winfried
Old 05-31-2006, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: TP 4200 vs. TP 5300 LiPo Batteries

Have you tried 22 x 11 prop? Jason`s dad recommended me that for the Hacker.
Old 06-01-2006, 08:26 PM
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Default RE: TP 4200 vs. TP 5300 LiPo Batteries

Never tried the 22x11, but I did fly the 22x12 until recently. With the 22x12 the plane flew very slowly, good for flying at constante speed but as soon as the wind started blowing, I found myself using full throttle for almost the entire flight and still wanting the plane to go faster. Now, with the 21x13 the plane has a bit more speed and it´s easier to fly in windy conditions. If I could go back, I would get a higher rpm power system, like a Hacker 13XL with 20x13.
Bear in mind that I fly at or near sea level, so my experience may not apply to your circumstances.

Bruno

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