I am a F3A pattern flier since the 80's. Actually own a JR XP9303 radio, mintor 170 engine and an impact plane (not entirely finished), but I am seriously interested in electrics.
Does anybody would help by informing about the newest and the best on electrics for F3A pattern. I mean, the best quality/price on motors, batteries and controllers. Where to start ?. Is it worth to change to electrics, why ? . How much to invest to get started ?.
I am willing to convert the glow impact into electric.

Thanks in advance for your hints and comments
Regards

I would recommend the 46" Aspera combo by 3D Hobby Shop or the E-flite Diamante 25e I have both and they are both excellent. Read the threads on both in this and other forums. Ben at 3D Hobby Shop is a wealth of Electric setup information.

www.3dhobbyshop.com or 830-990-6978 Good luck and Electric is a great way to fly.

Hello Enrique,

There are a lot of ways to go. The best thing to do is to read the many informative posts on this website. You will get a feeling for the different products. First, you will have to decide which electric motor type you want to run. Hacker C50 inrunner type, or outrunner (dualsky, hacker, axi, plettenberg). The outrunner is lower cost and offers good performance.

Then you will need to select the matching ESC. The Jeti Advance OPTO 90 is a good first choice for most outrunners and is fairly inexpensive.

You will need a charger and balancer. The Thunderpower 1010 charger and Thunderpower 210 balancer are the most popular products.

Lastly, you will need to choose your batteries. You will need 10s packs. For that, you should look for packs of at least 4500mah. 5000mah is a good size to look for. You can get the packs from many, many sources so you will need to shop around. For the 5000mah packs, don't get less than 17C discharge. Try to use 25C packs if you can.

Other than that, you can find just about all the information you need to compare products and find a solution which will work for you. There are several topics related to electric Impacts so that would be a good starting point.

Steve

Enrique

There are certainly lots of choices today. I think first thing you have to decide is inrunner or outrunner. Inrunner, Hacker is your only real option.

For outrunner there are a lot more choices, from inexpensive to expensive.

Personally I use the Plettenberg Xtra 30-10 Evo motor, and Schulze 32.80KA controller. This is not a cheap way to go, its around similar price to the Hacker C50/Hacker esc. It is however the most reliable and best performing motor/esc combination for an outrunner and is specifically designed for F3A, so it works very well in this application.

For chargers the TP 1010C/210V combo is the best bang for the buck. Although the Schulze 7.32-12 is a new charger that is a little more powerful than the TP 1010, and has an integrated balancer. Its a lot more money but is a really high quality unit, with a lot more features.

I have both chargers, my 1010's serve as the workhorse to do the bulk of my charging, where I use the Schulze mainly for field charging as it can charge a 10s pack 20 minutes faster than the 1010.

For batteries, take your pick....tons of choices here, some good some not. Like Steve said, 4500-5000 mAh is your best bet for capacity.

Personally I still think the Thunder Power 5300's offer the best combination of performance, weight and proven longevity. Unfortunately, they are also the most expensive!

Hi,
I started with electrics two month ago. Best decision I have made. Could buy a second hand Synergy that had the mounting points for the hacker C50. So no decision to make about the engine. Controller Spin99. For charging the TP 1010C/210V and for packs the Kokam 4000 30C packs. In comparision to the FP5350 this packs gives some extra power. For the Duch B-level program I only need about 2500 mAh so the cpacity of 4000 is no issue. With three packs and two chargers I can fly non stop. with one charger and two packs I can do abouth 6-8 flights in a afternoon. Tried a MZ20,5*12W, PT21*14, APC 21*14 and APC 20*15. Liked the APC 20*15 best on the Hacker C50 14XL

Thanks to all who have answerd to this post !

Chad, frankly speaking I know nothing about electrics ! . Sorry for the question, what is inrunner and what is outrunner ?

Regarding batteries, I found the Thunder Power RC Pro Lite 5300mAh 18.5V 5 Cell Li Poly 5s4p 5300 , is that the rigth one to use ?. I guess I should buy at least two of them, how to recharge it at the field, I mean, by using the car's baterry ?. Is it true that a gasoline generator must be used at the field ? How long it takes to recharge such a battery (5300) at the field ?

There is not an electric F3A pattern plane in my country, so, I have no reference at all !. I think mine would be the first .

Regards
Enrique

Enrique,

The inrunner makes a lot of revolutions (about 40.000) and needs a gearbox to let the prop run at a usefull speed for F3A purposes.
Here the magnets run inside the cage with the electric coil.


The outrunner does not have a gearbox. The prop is fixed to the housing or the axis and makes the same rpm as the motor.
Here the hull of the motor with magnets run outside the coil that is in the center of the motor.

OK!

Now, Why to use the inrunner motor (in F3A) instead the outrunner motor, or vice versa ? . Is it a matter of space, weight, price, power, reliability ?

Enrique

HI
Currently I have one plane with Pletteberg 30-10 Evo and one with Hacker C50 14-XL. With slightly different propeller-size, the flight performance is very similar. I can not explain why, but the Hacker equiped plane uses 10-15% less capacity from the battery per flight. If you have to pay full price for all the equipment, the cost of the motor/regulator is insignificant over time. Your main cost is related to the batteries. This is the same as with glow-engines and fuel. Since the Hacker solution presents a lighter load to the batteries, the batteries will probably last longer ....
The downside with a geared inrunner is some rather easy and fast maintenace (greasing of bearings in the gearbox) every 100 flights or so.

Hello Ola,

Thanks for your comments. Regarding noise, does the outrunner produce less noise as it has not the gearbox ?. Have you dB figures for both planes?


Enrique

I have restricted my selection to :

- Plettenberg 30-10 EVO motor, Schultz 32.80ka ESC
- Hacker C50 14XL motor, Jeti Spin99 ESC

Now, I am wondering : why to select one above the other ??.
Why the inrunner above the outrunner and vice versa ??.

Regarding noise, once again, does the outrunner produce less noise as it has not the gearbox ?.

Your inputs will be appreciatted

I’ve got two identical planes, one with an A60-20S outrunner and one with the C50-14XL. The A60 is turning an 18x12 and the C50 a 20x15. The C50 has considerably more thrust, and yes, more noise (you definitely hear the gears.)

The C50 tends to draw about 10% more out of the packs for a typical flight.

I believe the C50 will be the lighter choice and easier to install (I don’t know of any instances where an inrunner took the nose off of an airplane…I personally know of six outrunners that have departed!)

The C50 requires maintenance.

I’m very happy with the C50 so far but only have about 30 flights on it (compared to over 300 maintenance/issue free flights on the outrunner.) If grease is all it needs, I’m sold on the C50.

I’d recommend the C50 for ease of installation and lighter weight.

Power, cost, and weight are all about equal between a C50 and a Pletty Evo. The outrunners unload a little more in flight, and are much much quieter in the air.

The biggest difference is maintenance, my oldest Evo is now in its 4th season and has never left an airplane for any maintenance work whatsoever, any inrunner with gearbox will over time require significantly more time spent ensuring the gearbox is greased properly.

Also outrunners in general can tolerate more heat and therefore are better in very hot climates. They also can typically use a much broader range of propellers effectively, because they can unload better than a gear drive motor.

The biggest difference it maintenance....personally if I want to work on motors I will get a YS. IMO there is no advantage to going to electric if you have to grease gearboxes every 50 flights....its a failure point and people have lost rounds because of it. So why not just continue to run glow in that case? With my Evo, I have gone for 3 full years with not a single minute spent maintaining a motor....thats the advantage IMO.

Ditto what Chad said. Outrunner is much simpler and no maintenance. Of the outrunner choices, the Plettenberg is the best, and I have tried most all of them (Axi, Dualsky, Hacker, Plettenberg).

You have linked the Plettenberg to the Schulze. That is not a necessity.
http://www.f3alorenz.de/
Is the major distributer of F3A stuff in Germany. Recently the Schulze controller is removed from his site and the Plettenberg is sold in combo with the Jeti.
http://www.f3alorenz.homepage.t-onli...tm#plettenberg

I've noticed significant differences between geared inrunners and outrunners in terms of performance. Outrunners seem to do best near full throttle. As you advance the throttle from 1/4 to 1/2 to 3/4 you don't see much change. The outrunner seems do all of it's "work" between 3/4 and full throttle, consequently that's where you spend most of your time. The geared inrunner provides much better response between 1/4 and 3/4. Check of Neumotors inrunners.... www.neumotors.com .

For a more detailed look, see Ed Lyerly's build thread at

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ght=Inspire+90

He took a Fliton Inspire 90, started with an outrunner then switched to the inrunner. He details construction and flying results that you might find interesting. It's expensive, but for those wanting competitive pattern, you might want to consider it. If you're just interested in practice and seeing what's new, an outrunner will be much cheaper, planes too, with 60 and 90 size planes available for $200 to $300. (Designed for electric although glow planes modified for electric can be done but are heavier)

Jim

No offense, but my experience with outrunners of this size is that throttle response and power is linear and smooth from an idle through to full throttle. In fact 50-60% is where I spend the majority of the sequence with only minor application of power on uplines. I can assure you I don't spend any time at full throttle during a sequence.

Thanks to all for the inputs. Now I have a clear picture on motors and ESC's. Still need help regarding battery recharging at the field. What power source do you use to rechage the batteries at the field, I mean, the car's battery or a portable generator ?.

Regards

Either a deep cycle 12V battery or a small generator like the Honda EU1000. You don't really want to charge off your car battery.

You will need either a generator or high quality deep cycle battery. It really depends on how you want to run your practice sessions. I like to fly 6 flights in a session, that's 6 flights of 1 P-09 or (starting this week) 1 F-09 each flight. I take 4 flight packs with me and I use my Optima deep cycle battery to charge two of the packs at the field. It works out just right, I have little time spent waiting around for a charge. I found that if I have two or three packs then I spend time waiting. If you have 4 packs and a deep cycle battery (like the Optima, others don't last long) then you are good for 6 flights a session. If you have fewer packs or if you want to fly more than 6 flights in a session then you must have a generator. I find I get only 2 charges out of my Optima battery, so any more flight time means you must have a generator.

That's how I do it.

If i may chime in...
Even the largest deep cycle , 112Ahr, battery will only allow about 4 charges of 10S 5000mAhr packs..Sorry.
A generator is a great idea, but then you are depending on a large and usually costly 45amp 13.8v power supply to plug into the generator. HOw many of us pattern flyers go to the field with out replacement parts? Humm...i think nobody. A little too costly to keep two of everything1
I recommend a large, but not too big deep cycle battery, good quality 15 amp marine battery charger and a small generator!
I know its a lot to bring to a contest, but lets look at it first.
The honda inverter type generators are great, and cost about $1100.00. Well worth it, but now we have a large power supply that we are pushing very hard everytime we charge our packs. I have seen these large power supplys simply go POP !! without warning. Now we have no way to charge anything.
If we have a good size Deep Cycle battery (90.00 or so at Batteries Plus) with aforementioned wal mart smart charge charger ( $65.00) and the Honda generator, or a cheaper one if you want.

Now we have out battery that we can charge our packs off of of we are only going to the fieled for a flight or three. On contest day we can bring our battery and if we have 110V power at the field we can use our smart charger to keep our deep cycle battery at or near a full charge all weekend. If we dont have 110v at the field we can then breakout our generator to run our deep cycle battery charger to maintain our Deep cycle battery and fly all day and night if necessary until we run out of gas in the generator... Also we can get say 2 charges off our battery before fireing up the generator and there fore not having the generator running for the fullday during charging.

Hope this wasnt too wordy, just my two cents!

I fly an Oxai Beryll...
Hacker C5014XL
Jeti Spin opto 99
Fightpower 5350 17C F3A packs in 10S configuration
Spinning a 20.5x14 apc prop

charger is a Hyperion EOS0610 Duo
power supply is 20 amp regulated Powertech brand
we have power at our club so no need for battery or generator.

Next are some of the specifications of the Honda EU1000 generator:

1000 watts (8.3 A) of Honda inverter 120V AC power
Super quiet - 53 to 59 dB(A)
Lightweight (less than 29 lbs. !!)
Eco-Throttle - runs up to 8.3 hr on 0.6 gal. of fuel
12v - 8A DC output

As can be seen , it has a DC output, 12V 8 amp. , most probably the DC voltage is not as clean as the voltage of a DC power supply. I am wondering if the DC output of the generator is good enough to feed the TP 1010C charger for the Lipo battery .

Has somebody used this generator in DC output mode, I mean, without using a DC power supply conected to the 120 Vac output , to feed the charger at the field ?

I guess that this generator could take up to two TP 1010C chargers to charge two 10SP lipo's simultaneously. Any advice on this ?

Hi

I had the same problem as you and for long was the only one flying electric F3A in my country. It is expensive, so the simple advise is go and look at what the top flyers in the world are using and copy that. They have for the last three years and longer done all the development so do not go and re-invent the wheel. You will get a lot of cheaper products out there but in the long run it will work you out more. Before you however decide on any product (motor, battery, controller) BE AWARE that if the dry weight of your plane before you start adding equipment is not about 2250 grams, you will not get you plane under 5000 grams by buying the lightest equipment out there (wheels axles, swithches, receivers etc). People do not always take into account the weight of those extras (servo extension leads, battery connectors, prop weight etc). Don't be fooled by claims on the weight of some electric planes and only finding out that people have to fly the planes with batteries that can hardly made on schedule. The best and lightest pack out there is the TP 5300 and according to me still the best. You do not need 25 c packs etc that come in at over 100 gram more in weight. I have made over 200 flights on TP 5300 packs (three years) and still have more than enough power to fly the P09 and F09 schedules with these packs.

Burt