Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Has anyone gone with a different spinner on this plane? The supplied spinner doesn't look right.

mdjohnson

Hey Guys

I am still waiting for the release of the Vanquish 2M but am getting itchy thumbs. Can anyone give a detailed description of the quirks (if any....ha ha) of the Wind S110? A detailed unbiased flight report with the recommended Hacker A50-16L motor and 8S setup would also be veryappreciated.I am interested in this being a good practise Intermediate to Advanced competition backup machine as it will not break the bank and I already have some servos for it (Hitec 5085's). My goal is to do some F3A competition in the next couple of years after honing my skills somewhat........well, a lot.

Cheers

MJ

hezik

The biggest quirks:

1) it isn't 2m
2) it accelerates on downlines, at least with the standard setup it does
3) the A50-16L doesn't have enough power to keep constant speed in windy conditions
4) it has a slight rolling tendency knife-edge, but really small, say it rotated 5 degrees after 100m

You might start to think it's an underpowered bad flying airplane. It's not. She really flies great and on no-wind days it's not lesser than a 2m bird. Even in wind it still flies fine, but at a smaller wingspan and about 4kg AUW, it's logical wind has a bigger grasp on it.

mdjohnson

Thanks for your valuable input hezik.

A while back I had posted on this forum that I would wait for the 2m Vanquish but as I say I am getting a little itchy for a better and bigger flying Aspera type airframe. At the moment I am trying to decide and convince the Minister of Recreation and Finance (wife) that I indeed need two dedicated pattern airplanes. I thought if I could get the Wind and practise with it then when the Vanquish is ultimately released (I hope) that it would also be a neccessity. The Wind would also act as a backup machine if (enter favorite daiety here) forbid the Vanquish would come to grief. It has been my experience that all the airframes do "something weird" as they are all a compromise. One may correct  a fault in another but a new "quirk" is then introduced. As long as the quirk is not too weird. The answer is to choose an airframe that looks good and flies reasonably and learn the way it flies intimately (imho) Anyone else with an opinion on the Wind S110? Thanks for all.

Cheers

MJ 

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

I have read a lot about this plane before purchasing (there are a few threads on all the rc forums). The things that come to mind are:

1) No one with a Scorpion 4025 or 4035 motor has complained about a lack of power (one or two have talked about a marked improvement switching from Hacker to Scorpion).
2) The plane accelerates in down lines, which you can see by looking at any video on your favorite video hosting site. I plan on experimenting both with brakes and props.
3) Some have mentioned that the plane feels light or 'floaty' due to the low wing loading (also I think you can see this in videos), and others have mentioned that the plane flies well with the added weight of 10S.
4) Everyone is happy with the way the plane flies....everyone.
5) It is a 110 size plane; it is not a 2m airplane.

I have not flown mine yet. The quality of the plane is very nice, all the hardware is usable (and if you use it, the plane goes together very fast). My thorough research led me to believe that this is the most competitive sub 2M airplane I could get for under $1000.

Zebel

Here is my 2 cents.

1. The downline acceleration is true, Ihave not doneanything to help it yet.
2. The quality and looks are unique.
3. I am using4025-16 with2x 4S Rhino 4900mah 25cwith 16x12 prop and have way too much powerand can do unlimited vertical.
4. Ihavehad some of the pros fly my plane and theywere really impressed by its performance and believed it was very close to a 2 meter. Where Ifly is 90 percent of the time is windy. Iamsure with nowind it wouldflyjust like a 2 m.
5. As for the floatiness and low wing loading, this plane is a hybrid where it can be configured asa 3D plane if you order the 3D tail option or make it a pattern by making it a bit heavier.

All in all, this plane flies really well even in the wind, Iam very happy with it.

hezik

Unlimited vertical is not the benchmark for F3A flying. With the Hacker verticals are also unlimited.

Now try to fly a looping in 20kts winds and try to keep a constant speed. Start downind at the bottomside of the looping. You'll see that you lack power in the last 45 degrees. It will make it, but not with constant speed.

A 16x12 is a bad prop for this plane, in my opninion. It's a small prop and it will make the acceleration problem bigger.

I'm flying a 18x10 prop on the Hacker. If it existed, I would be flying 18x10 Wide, for extra braking effect.

The acceleration might be solved with a good ESC with a good brake. The Master Basic OPTO 90 sebart includes standard, has worthless brake settings. The Spin 99 might improve this.

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

The key to more speed in a head wind is more pitch, not necessarily more power.

I've been flying a plane that is the same size and basically the same weight with a 15x10 (glow) and it was enough prop diameter. I had tried a 16x8 and was dissatisfied with the flying speed of the airplane, most notably coming over the top of a loop into a head wind. The Wind is a very sleek design and I have a strong feeling that 16" or 17" diameter props will fly the plane well.

A 10 pitch prop is the absolute minimum I would use on anything this size or greater. I'm going to start out testing a 17x12e and see how it works. I bet the 16x12 with the (light) Scorpion 4025 is an awesome setup.

If you have more speed coming through your looping maneuvers, the acceleration on down lines will be less noticeable. I think this in combination with a good breaking setup will work very well.

I wish the freaking winter would end so I could prove this.[:@]

hezik

You didn't read my post the way it was intended.

I don't want 18 inch because of the speed, I want it for braking purposes.

So I'm not saying the 16x12 is too small because of lack of speed, it's not, 12 pitch is too much. It's too small because a 16 inch prop brakes even less than an 18 inch.

If the engine can run 16x12, don't get 16x12 but take 17x10 or even 18x8. 8 inch pitch still gives you enough speed.

It's always a compromise. If I were to outfit the hacker with a 16x14 prop, for instance, it might be possible to fly a constant speed looping in strong headwinds, but for level flying you would only be able to use idle throttle or max 10~20% throttle, or you would be pylonracing.

So.. with the Hacker one has to compromise and in my opninion the lack of braking in downlines, outweighs the lack of 'looping power' in strong headwinds. I rather have my plane go to slow at some points in windy conditions, than always too fast on other points no matter what the winds..

I have logged about 450 flights on my WindS to date, and I think 16x12 is a wrong choice. You'll get too high a speed in normal flight and lots of acceleration in downlines. Overall your speed will be a lot higher than mine. This is offcourse also a personal matter; which flying style one prefers. I prefer slow and closeby. Or at least, that's what I'm trying to do..

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Is everyone happy with the thrust line of the motor? Just curious...

TruTurn FAI spinner looks great; saved a few grams, too.

tIANci

My Scorpion 4035-250 is happy with the XOAR 18x12. She can prop hang too, if necessary. As for the trust line I need some help here. How do I know my rudder is STRAIGHT when there is no counter balance? I suspect my thrust line is an issue and not the rudder but how does one be sure on that front? I mean if the rudder is say 3-4 degrees out to maintain a straight vertical then its obvious on the rudder but if its like 2 degrees how does one see it without the counter balance?

JonT

I added approx 1 deg additional sidethrust as I was carrying rudder trim, it's spot on now. This is with Hacker set up and APC 18 x 10. Love my Wind!

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Does the rear support make thrust angle changes difficult? How did you guys go about shimming the motor?

Tianci, I'll have to dig up my resources to find the formula, but basically you fly directly away from you and pull up into a vertical climb. The plane may pull to the right or left, so you correct with rudder trim until it climbs very straight. When you land, you measure how many degrees of correction are in the rudder, and adjust the motor to off set this. I think it might be 1/2, so if the rudder is off 2 degrees, you add 1 degree of side thrust. This is from "Peter Goldsmith's Trimming Chart".

It looks to me like there is a lot of right thrust, don't see much down thrust. With every single plane I've owned so far I've had to reduce the side thrust.

Another option is to remove the side thrust completely and add a throttle>rudder mix in your radio. The side thrust is a function of speed and not a constant correction.

Edited to correct numbers.

Jeff Boyd 2

Hey Wilson . . I have always done it like this;

Fly the plane directly away from you and into the wind (calmer is better); Pull to a vertical with wings level. Use elevator only . . no other imputs.
If the rudder is off, the plane will yaw immediately after the radius in the direction the rudder is out. An incorrect thrust line will show up further into the upline as a gentle (usually) deviation in the direction of the current thrust line (i.e. deviates to the left = more right thrust required).

Anyway . . seems to work for me

JB

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Wilson what kind of amps are you pulling with that 18x12??

hezik

Side thrust: first trim your plane (rudder) so that it flies straight. Then pull it vertical, do whatever you need to do to get it to fly straight up vertically and once you've reached that point, release all controls. It should continue straight up. If it veers to the left or the right, adjust your sidethrust accordingly.

Besides adjusting sidethrust, you might also just put a throttle->rudder mix in your transmitter. I prefer the first (adjusting sidethrust) but they both work.

For downthrust, just fly level and straight lines, both level as inverted, and make random transitions from full power to idle. The plane should continue straight on with every transition. If for instance it starts climbing the second you put it to idle, then you need to decrease your downthrust.

Your mileage may vary and don't expect to get it right right away. This takes some time and some flying to get right.

tIANci

Hezik/JB ... noted ... will try to sort it out.

gaRCfield ... about 65A only.

Jeff Boyd 2

I meant that it's how I determine if it's thrust or rudder (not just a rudder check . . sorry not very clear there ). If it's deviating early in the vertical, it's probably rudder . . if it's later then it's thrust. It's an ongoing process of checks really . . and I usually check things every few flights to make sure nothing has changed. It's amazing how much of a schedule is affected if something goes out [:'(] !

Naturally, "eyeball" the rudder from the top and back as it it should look inline with the fin . . it's the starting point. If the plane is built true, it should be fairly right straight off with only a couple of 'clicks' to get it sorted.

JB

tIANci

JB ... understand what you meant. Anyways, been busy with work and have not even had the time to go flying at all. Been like 2 months now. Hmmm ... probs in late March I shall be in the mood to fly again.

CPT Moonlight

Work is no excuse for not flying, if you went flying you would do twice as much work, and your boss would give you a pay rise???

Happy flying
CM

tIANci

CM ... OK OK OK! I hear you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hahahahahahaa ...

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

Just about finishing up....

RTF weight = 4.3kg/9.5lbs

Receiver mounted behind servo tray, all batteries (2x power, 2x Rx) mounted side by side against wing tube/wall, balanced at 180mm.

Scorpion 4035-250 motor
Zippy Flightmax 5S 5000mah 30C battery packs (x2)
Castle Creations ICE HV 80A speed control
Neu 2S 400mah lipo Rx packs (x2)
Tech-Aero PLR5-E regulators (x2)
Tru-Turn 3" FAI aluminum spinner
APC 17x12e propeller
Graphtechrc.com Carbon Fiber landing gear
Dubro 2.75" foam wheels
Great Planes Venus .40 landing gear
Robart 1/8" Hinge Points
Hangar 9 Titanium 4-40 push rods
Hangar 9 HD 4-40/2mm ball links
Airtronics 94761 digital mini servo (x2 for stabs)
Airtronics 94780 Monster Torque servo for rudder
Airtronics 94772 digital HS servos (x2 for ailerons)
DuBro HD servo horns (airtronics)
Sullivan 3/4" steel control horns for rudder


I think that's all the changes. I should have a pic over the next day or two.

hezik

Well.. erm.. so you invested a reasonable amount of money in leightweight stuff (spinner/titanium rods/gear/etc) and came out 300 grams heavier than a stock version.. Mine weighs 4000 grams AUW, stock, with Hacker, 8s 5000 zippy 30C, 1000mAh 2s receiver lipo. 4x Futaba 9650 (ail/ele) and 1x Futaba BLS 451 (rudder).

not that that'll be a big problem, she can handle the weight, will even fly better in windy conditions and it'll make your spin entry a lot easier.

P11 has an inverted spin entry.. last time I decided not to help it and just keep full down.. it just lost altitude but didn't fall into a spin :P

If you wanna save weight, you can swap the 5000mAh for 4000mAh. That'll knock 200 grams off the total. You won't need 5000mAh.

With the 8s setup I can fly P11 twice on 5000mAh, if it's not too windy.

Another tip.. swapping all the screws for alu versions will save you like 40 grams.

btw.. you have 2 landing gears?!

Jetdesign

My Feedback: (8)

I went with the spinner simply because it looks better/right (roughly same weight), titanium rods because they are way stronger (roughly same weight), and CF gear to save weight and out of personal preference.

I will wait to fly the plane before I buy any more batteries to see how I like it. Can try 4000mah and 20C if I need to drop weight. 4300g does not sound too terrible for a 10S setup and it is always windy here in New England (and at the Nationals from what I hear).

I was hoping to come out at a max of 9.5lbs and I did it, even with bigger wheels, pants, and hardware. The reason for 10S was to avoid a plane that was too light on the wing with a floaty feeling to it. A plane this size and with this wing loading should handle 9.5lbs just fine. Worst case scenario is my Yak gets an electric update and I try 8S in the Wind. Wouldn't be a terrible thing.

ODD

My Feedback: (78)

I ordered a Wind 110. Can someone please let me know the size of the aileron servo wells to help me decide what servos to put in.

I am planning to buy for the Wind the T-Canalizer and wing fins that comes with the 3D Stabs. If any one is interested in the 3D stabs, please let me know.