hezik

Ah, ok, yes that would explain.

I'm confused about people stating it would need more incidence?

Mine still has the wing fixed. I didn't measure wing incidence in relation to engine thrust line or fuse centreline, I assumed wing incidence was correct, fixated the plane in such a way that I read 0.5 deg on the wing, and then adjusted the stab to 0.

When flying this, with the default downthrust, it doesnt change behaviour on throttle changes.

However, it does pull out a straight downline, towards the canopy.

If I'm not mistaking, that has to be an incidence issue, and it would mean the wing would need less incidence.

I already had to do some filing on the stab adjusters to get it to 0.5/0.0 (wing/stab), to get it to 0.0/0.0, I'd have to do more.

Overall it's a beautifull plane and once it's setup correctly, I'm sure it's a great flyer (it already is), but the quality is poor.

Besides the stab adjuster pin being glued in wrong, leaving no room to actually adjust the stab, mine has a hole list of issues a 1500 euro plane shouldn't have.

nmartin

The forward hole has been enlarged vertically (slotted?) thereby allowing the bolt to move up or down (via the adjuster at the rear). The bolt is then tightened down in order to clamp or hold the wing on.

Cheers,
Neil M.

nonstoprc

My Feedback: (90)

Seems like one needs to find a reference line (e.g., the canopy base) first and then measure various angles in relation to that. The reference line should be part of the design.

Pulling to canopy could be either too much positive wing incident or not enough down thrust angle. In my opinion, the wing incident is more critical as we want no pulling regardless of the throttle position.

hezik

In an idle downline, up/downthrust cause pullout? (it's a real question, not a smartass remark)

I was under the impression that up/downthrust has to do with wether your plane changes attitude during throttle changes?

nonstoprc

My Feedback: (90)

Making it not pulling to either direction on down line is exactly the key. Assume the elevator is neutral, then the wing incident determines the amount of pulling.

hezik

Yes, that's what I thought.. but earlier on you stated:
?

(please note; I'm asking, don't know what the truth is in this)

nonstoprc

My Feedback: (90)

Yes, that is a general comment. I did point out later in the same posting that wing incident is more critical :-).

woodie

I added the wing adjusters exactly like Matt13 did in post #296. It is not hard to do, in my case, I had to move the adjuster down a little more than the small donut would allow for mounting so I just cut a larger donut to glue around the original one the give it more mounting surface. Still was easy to do.

Woodie

rcpattern

My Feedback: (45)

Neil,

Both of mine had a VERY slight pull to the canopy on uplines. For a reference, it was a 2% down elevator mix to WOT to eliminate this. I added adjusters, but it didn't seem to want to go away. I asked Andrew and he said he added some slight downthrust and as soon as I did that, the problem went away. My wings are now back where they were factory set. My stab has as much positive incidence that I can get in them (leading edge up) and my CG is rounghly 1/2" in front of where Seba recommended. I love how mine fly at this point. They have 2% pitch mix with left rudder, 0% with right rudder. 2% downline to low throttle and about 2% opposite aileron with rudder for knife edge. Both of mine are setup exactly the same and both fly very well with these numbers,

Arch

anders12

I used the same way as Hezik to adjust the stabs though i set the wing at 0.25 degrees. When doing this I noticed that one wing had a little more positive angel than the other. This wing was changed by moving the antirotationpins. An operation that took 10 minutes. My model is flying with completly neutral elevators and enginethrust set according to the nose of the fuselage. Vertical uplines are perfect and downlines have a very slight pull to the canopy. In 30 years of F3A-competition I have never had a model without a pull to the canopy in downlines.
This is indeed one of the most welldesigned F3A-models on the market. It flies extremely well. There are several new designs on this forum that are clearly inspired by the Wind S Pro. They seem to miss one of the most important features, the near midwing design. This is what gives the Wind S Pro it`s excellent knife-edge behavior.

Anders johansson
Sweden

tewalker01

My Feedback: (5)

Don,

If you can't find any pictures then I can take someand post them.

Additional information for those readers of this forum. I loaned Don my plane for a couple of months to do an evaluation and to trim it.
We discovered that theinitial setup of the plane definitely reflects Sebastiano Silvestri's flying style. Don added wing adjusters so that
he could experiment with the trimming process.I'm trying to learn how to do a better job of trimming a plane so Don's help was
greatly appreciated.

Terry

matt13

That is correct, I copied the arrangement from another modeller, the wing adjusters were fitted through the original pin holes first to capture the factory incidence, then both the forward and aft holes were enlarged up and down with a file.

The engine thrust line ajustment sounds worth a try, I have a couple of other adjustments to try first, I have never taken the time to properly trim my Pattern models before. This time I have done a lot of practice over the last session, and I feel ready to move up a class,so I'm reading trim articles and will play the trimming game more than I have before, should be fun:-)

I find that I have a very small amount of up elevator trim for hands off tracking, it was pointed out to me that if I increase the wing incidence a bit more, then the up trim will not be required, there is only one way to find out I guess!

So far I'm happy with the rolling and up lines, but yes it pulls slightly to the canopy in left or right knife edge and in long power off down lines. I have no mixes at all.

rcpattern

My Feedback: (45)

Matt,

Try the downthrust trick first . I played with the adjusters and they did help some, but as soon as I made the thrust change...problem solved. I had been thinking about it, but was talking to Andrew Jesky and that is what he did on his and it also immediately fixed the problem. Andrew really likes to fly different planes, so he was playing with a Wind. From every conversation I had with him, he really liked his. All he and I added was 1 washer to the top of the motor to add down thrust and the pull to the canopy went away.

Arch

matt13

Ok I will give the extra down thrust a try and I will let you know the results.

These models are the best value for money I have seen in Australia for a long time, the importer sells them for $1699 which fills a gap here between the Wind 110, and Oxia models ($3500 to $4000). The quality as reported in earlier posts is noted, and I don't disagree, but it is a lot of model for the money over here. Has anyone got one of the all composite versions yet?

woodie

OK, finally found a picture of the rear wing adjuster I installed in Terry's Wind S. As I said before, I had to cut another donut to fit around the original to allow enough room to move the adjuster down enough to get desired incidence.

Woodie

Brenner

Here's a picture of John Martin's Wind S Pro with his new Contra Drive installed. (John said I could post this ..) The gold spinner is perfect match for the yellow paint scheme, and I love how the lines of the spinner blend in with the profile of the fuse. This is a very good looking plane.

Currently John only has five or so flights on the system. He says that he will report out on RCU when he has a little more stick time.

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

Stop it Brenner! I can't afford your drive system right now, and you're making me have irrational thoughts of selling off my kid or wife to get it!

Brenner

Hey Doug,

Not to worry, we won't have any more Drives available until May, so you have lots of time to save up.

Brenner ...

rjtw

Sexy!
Brenner, any chance of getting the contra drive down to a size which would fit the Wind S 50?  I'd snap one up immediately.

hezik

After about 70~80 flights on mine, i must say that all pin-hole connections have gotten some room on them. So the forward and aft 'wing pins' got some room of movement, and so does the wing tube itself. Offcourse this is easily fixable, but still it's another quality issue.

Also, the fairings of the gear are pinned to the fuse on the aft side, and the fuse isn't supported in any way where those pins enter the fuse. This results in the holes slowly getting bigger and bigger. I fixxed this by applying a drop of epoxy with microballoons over the hole and redrilling it.

I did mount the original hinges, but really regret that. Those hinges downright suck, they already had some room of movement before mounting them, but it's progressive, the more you fly with them, the more 'loose' they'll become. I already replaced the ones in the vertical fin with robart hinges, but there's no way around it, I'll have to replace them all.

That's no rocket science, but still it's a job that should not have been neccesary. So my advice to any new buyers is to ditch the hinges that come with it. Even if you think 'ahh they'll be fine', trust me, after a while they won't.

Although it's a good flying plane, I'm still not completely in love with it. It's a plane that needs some speed, it really doesn't like to fly slow, it'll start acting up when you do.

In wind it's not really stable, maybe the wingfences will correct this, but as soon as wind starts blowing, it'll start rolling left and right on gusts of wind.

Also; the CFK wings are now available, did anyone see what they cost? 880 euro for 2 wings, is totally nuts. If you want to replace the wings and stab with CFK ones, that'll set you back rougly 1100 euro. 100 euro less than a white wood version (complete) costs.

Putting all this together, the lack of quality, the bad hardware, the fact that it wears fast, the fact that new CFK wings have an absurd pricetag..

If I were to buy a plane now, It wouldn't be this one anymore. I'd either buy the new Krill Spark EVO (the 400 euro more is more than worth it) or the MTL Gaudius, which has the same pricetag but has a WAY higher quality.

anders12

My model now has 309 flights. It is in condition as new. I replaced the hinges from the beginning. The holes for the antirotation pins where treated with a thin layer of medium CA-glue and shows no sign of play.

I am totally in love with this airplane. It suits the current FAI-schedules perfectly. As for speed I would not want too fly any slower than I do, but then again Sweden is a windy country. Which brings me to windy and turbulent conditions. The Wind S Pro models I have seen all excell in this area. They are extreamly stable and penetrates the wind very well. An airplane with such good aerodynamical trim, stiff airframe and little drag just have to behave well in wind.

So Hezik once again I beg to differ!

Regards Anders Johansson

hezik

Which is your perogative. Note that most of my critisism concerns visual aspects of the airframe.

Are there any ribs visible on the outside of your fuse? On mine, all ribs are visible. Do you have any dings/damages on your fuse. In total there are like 35 dings/spots in mine. What does your fuse weigh? Mine is light, so I'm happy with that.

I recently replaced aileron hinges by Robarts, and that improved the situation a lot.

Do you have the wingfences mounted? What do you compare with? Have you even seen a Lorenz Gaudius in real life?

Today we had our first contest in the netherlands, with 15+ kts of winds, and she performed better than I expected. I came in 5th of 16 pilots, flying the P11 schedule. The airplane was not the bottleneck in this, I wouldn't have flown it better with another aircraft.

How bit are the openings between wing and aileron? Planes like the Gaudios or the krill, these are less than 0.5mm. On the WindS pro it's like 2mm at least on both sides.

You have to put it into perspective. I'm not saying it's a bad plane, what I'm saying is that, for the same pricetag, you can buy a plane that is way better finished.

Also note the large difference in weight between different WindS-ses. On the fuse alone I have seen IRL a difference of 150 grams, and reported on fora even bigger differences. Also, if you check any forum, lots of people report the same as me. Even in this thread, if you were to count, I think more ppl are unhappy with the quality. Most are happy with how she flies, tho.

anders12

Since I painted the fuselage myself there are no dings or dents. Only one rib can, just barely, be seen on the outside. You need correct light an looking in the right angle to see it. My fuselage was rather light, can`t remember exactly. I added 85g of paint and clearcoat though. Total weight of the model with 5200mAh 35C batteries is 4780g.

I have no wingfences. The Gaudius is one model I`m looking forward to see at the Nordic championchips this summer. I compare the Wind S Pro to all models I`ve flown and seen in action during 30 years of national and international competing.

Last season I placed second at the Swedish Championships flying The Wind S. First place was won by my training friend also flying a Wins S.

The way the rudders are hinged is the thing I like least on the model. I would prefer to be able to seal the hinges. I can`t say I notice any drawbacks i flight though.

Off course everyone is entiteled to their opinion. Since most complaints regards the finish of the model I´m lucky since I did the painting and covering myself. I`ve read a lot about the wind S Pro on different forums. It`s quite obviosly not a model of Oxai quality. A lot of the complaints are nitpicking about problems that are easily fixed. I have built two models and seen four being built other. So I have som firsthand experience. That the flying proprierties surpass the building quality is a statement a can agree upon.

Rehards Anders J

wagen017

Is anybody flying the full composite by now? Any comparison with the original one?

Volkert

hezik

I spent some time trimming mine, and what I noticed, is that the factory-setting for the wing doesn't seem to be 0. I started out the way most people describe in this topic, fixating the plane in such a way that the wing had a .5 incidence, and then setting the stab to 0. That resulted in a plane that would slightly climb out of a vertical downline (pull to canopy). After experimenting with thrustline and CG, all that was left to try, was to change the incidence. First I set the stab to 0. This fixed the clibming out issue, but it flew 'horribly', didn't feel right.

So I set the stab back so that if the wing reads .5, the stab reads .0. After that I lowered the incidence in the wing to about 0.25.

That's a whole difference.. the plane feels a lot more 'locked in' and just flies a lot better.. I was surprised that such a small change, had such an influence.

Am I the only one who came to the conclusion that the incidence on the wing should be lowered?