I am working on my first electric plane(s) and need to get setup for charging. I thought it would be cool to have a dedicated thread.

What are the best/right chargers AND what supporting equipment do I need (balance plugs and boards, adapters, etc)?

I have a pair of Neu 7.4v batteries for Rx and will be getting lipos from Hobby City for power. Will be running 2x5S for a 10S power system, and want the ability to monitor internal resistances.

Let me know if you need anymore info, and thanks for the help.

I think there was already a thread somewhere on this but never mind.

I think one thing to keep in mind is to look a bit in the future. More and more batteries are 2C or 4C. That means charging with 10A or 20A on a 5000mAh battery. I think the latest is that the charger input voltage should be 24VDC iso 12VDC, so be sure you find a power supply that can do that.

I am using now the iCharger 1010 (from hobbycity) with which I am very happy. For me that means I can charge at 1C a 10S 5000mAh package (=200W). I use 2 chargers and 3 packs. In that way I charge quicker then I can fly. Each charge takes about 45minutes.

People that charge at 2C or 4C use an iCharger208. This can charge with 350W. They can charge (with 24VDC input) a 5S pack in 15 minutes. You need 2 chargers and in theory 1 pack.

These are some options so you have to figure out what works for you. Hope this helps!

Volkert

I use a Hyperion DUO charger and charge 2 5S packs in synch mode which balances the 2 packs as if they were a single 10S pack. 5S packs can only be charged at about 8 amps since the DUOs are limited to 180 watts per side. So I charge at 1C. Usually takes 45 minutes to recharge the 2 5S packs. The DUO will show total pack internal resistance, but not the individual cells. You can monitor the individual cell voltage during charge however.

http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/eos/

Regardless of if they say you can charge at more than 1c. I allways charge at 1c. They are allways going to try to give the best spec they think they can get away with just to sell their products above their rivals. Even those that say 1c could be charged at a higher rate but would perhaps significantly reduce the number of cycles and although the cost is going down year by year it is still a saving worth making.

is overall internal resistance good enough, or is individual cell resistance that important? are there separate devices to measure internal resistance? i like the duo but didn't know if it was sufficient with respect to the resistance.

I am considering purchasing my second charger, next to Robbe Power Peak Infinity 3 which is 12S capabable, as I prefer to charge my packs evening before flying, so next season with some models on 10S one evening will be not enough to charge all the packs .</p>

So iCharger 1010B+ 300W 10s Balance/Charger is on my wish list . It is 10S capable and can measure internal resistance of individual cells, very neat. It is available at HK, full spec here. With 2 of these you are set OK for a long time. Dont't forget a good power supply, 20A min per charger.</p>

I really like the iCharger 1010B+. Check the link provided. It gives you the individual cell voltages, internal resistance per cell, you have the storage function etc. etc. If you have a good voltmeter you can check the calibration. Nice thing is also they are very active in upgrading the software. You can download it and upgrade via the USB port on the charger.

If you are not familiar with Hobbycity, be sure to create an account and log in before you select the charger. When I ordered my second one it made a 20$ difference.

Volkert

So the two 5S packs hook up in series, just like in the plane, and the two balance plugs will both fit in the balance board? Are there different balance boards for this charger?

yes, just like you say, you charge the pack as it is in the plane (I really prefer this because you don't need to brake the pack everytime you charge, prevents mistakes) and on the balancer board are two 5S connectors for the balancer connector of each pack. The board comes with the charger, it's all included.

So all I do is take out the pack from the plane, connect the two balancer connectors and + and - of the pack and press charge.

The balancer board on the iCharger takes the Zippy/Rhino packs connector directly.

Volkert

Hi Joe,

Why is it important to monitor internal resistance? Can you adjust something if you see a trend? Your battery will tell you IR is on the rise if it gets warm during the charge and the resting voltage off the charger will be a few points lower.

You didn't mention 'support' as a criteria. Will Hobby City be able to keep you flying when your equipment fails two days before a contest? Will your equipment interface with the average setup at a contest should you need help?

There are important things to consider beyond cost.

There are outlets for the 1010B+ in the US, it will cost you a few more bucks (literally a few bucks the charger is $164 at hobby king and $169 at progressive RC) but the support is there.

http://progressiverc.com/index.php?p...emart&Itemid=1

I have it's predecessor the 1010B and couldn't be happier, actually sold my TP 1010 and will at some point buy the 1010B+ just to have a pair of chargers.

You can get boards for the 1010B+ for just about every balance connector and they don't cost much. I have three different boards that have let me charge any lipo I've come across.

I just ordered a 1010B+ 300W . . it has fantastic reviews, and there's a full product test over on another well known forum .

If it performs as stated and expected . . I will be ordering another one or two . .

Not saying you CAN'T get good support 2 DAYS before a contest (although I have never experienced it), but I prefer to be my own support . . I found I can usually rely on it .

JB

So Joe the setup I have is:

1x: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=6879 (This I use at home, at our flying field we installed a 75Amps 12VDC power supply)
With this I can charge at 5Amps (which is about 15Amps on the primary side)

2x: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...alance/Charger

6x: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=7654
Now they are rated 2C for charging; when I bought them they were 1C. That is why I have 6 packs (=3 sets). I guess you could have two packs when you charge at 1.5C.

If you charge at higher then 1C you would need a heavier power supply: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9205&Product_Name=25A_14 v_DC_Power_Supply_for_Chargers_(350W)

However, since the packs cost 65$ each, I would still go for 6 packs.

In this way I can fly as much as I want, there is always a charged pack ready when using two chargers.

When I started I bought two packs with one charger and one power supply and bought four more packs once I had my plane almost ready to fly, just to spread the cost.

Each pack has flown over 50 flights with no degradation sofar.

Volkert

Hi Joe,
The prices of the Hobby City stuff is quite compelling. I will probably buy Flightmax for my next set of packs due to the price and they are lighter than the Zippy's. Some like to stagger pack purchases both for budget and life span. Remember packs will deteriorate whether they are used or not. Starting out you will probably want three sets min and buy two new ones each year thereafter. Hobby City does a have a number of very cheaply priced adapters too. Their packs use the jst-xh connectors.
How do you plan on using your equipment? Will you be charging at the field? Is there power available? How much do you plan on flying each day? I really don't get much out of more than 4 or 5 flights a day. That coupled with the cost and noise/fuel of a generator I opted for a Marine battery for field charging. I can get about three solid charges before it start to fall off, although I haven't really tried more. Nothing special just a walmart $80 model. The downside to that is the amp draw is too high to run two chargers. At one point I had five sets of packs and would just fly without charging. The hassle that came out of that was I only had one charger which made it tough to charge everything and go to work the next day.
Look for the biggest highest Volt power supply you can. I have two out of and IBM 235 server you used to be able to get them very cheap but now they are harder to come by. Also, only 12V. If I had to do it over I might just bite the bullet and get the Iota 55.
I have two of the Cellpro 10s and they are Ok. Around $180 when you catch their sales and a little over 200w. Not the most accurate, lacks a discharge function and service is fair although some have had problems. The seperate IRs is a nice feature in case one cell is going in a pack but I don't pay close enough attention nor do I think the numbers are that accurate for the small variations I have seen. The 1010B+ looks compelling as does the Neu although at first glance it may be the same just rebadged.
Some miscellanious ramblings hope it helps

Happy New Year

I think the individual cell IR numbers are important. Example- I had a pack with all pretty average IR numbers of about 7.0 and within about 2-3 flights had a cell go up to over 13 and took the pack out of normal service. The entire pack's average would not have gone up that much and may not have been caught. Since I had to know how soon the pack would go, I put it in a test plane (also 10S setup) and flew 2 short easy flights before the cell in question puffed up completely and failed. Had this been in my main pattern plane, I could have lost it had it failed at a bad location in the flight. I guess the point is that your packs will probably tell you something before they fail, you just need to be watching for the signs.

Thanks for all this great info. I was looking at the Cellpro, but the Progressive RC site just makes buying the i1010 and balance boards all too easy.

So what I've learned is that the best thing for us to do is balance the two 5S packs together as if they were one 10S pack. So, ideally a charger that can charge one 10S pack is fine, and if it has a balance board with two separate 5S balance plugs, that's perfect. The batteries get wired together in series for charging, just like they are wired in the airplane.

I was getting confused as to how to get the different balance plugs to the charger; I was under the impression that each charger would have it's own balance board, and adapters would be needed between the batteries and the charger's balance board. ProgressiveRC's site shows that different balance boards are available specifically for the i1010 charger.

I like the idea of the internal resistance readings because it will let me experiment with monitoring the cheap packs I get this year, and compare them to a 'better' pack(s) I might get next year. I've been wanting to do some more useful things with my computer, so maybe I'll log the condition of the batteries over time/charges.


I still have a little more research to do I guess - I don't know what guys in D1 are using yet (for support, etc), and to answer Anthony's questions:
I plan on having 3 sets of batteries to start, and would like to charge once or twice at the field. There is no power available, and the only guy that flies heavy-duty electrics charges off his running Dodge Ram; I think he uses a pair of chargers. The 5000mah batteries should give me insane amounts of flight time if I want it; people are reporting only 3000mah for a 9min PXX flight. Since I've moved up to the 120 size/pattern planes, I tend to fly about 4-5 flights in an average day - 5 long flights is pretty exhausting!

Quite a few in D1 are using the Honda 1000 or 2000, and a couple other cheaper options (which seem to be louder and not as high output on the whole).

3000 mah for 9 min of PXX sounds very light. P or F are generally 5:45 +/- 30 seconds (box entry to box exit....add 45 to 90 seconds for TO and landing) and are 3000 mah minimum (close, slow, light winds), and can use 4000 (out, fast, big). Masters, from what I've seen, is closer to 7:00 +/- 30 seconds and can certianly go well over 4000 mah if out, big, and fast.

Regards,

Dave

I concur with Dave on the flight times. I usually fly a schedule and then 2 or 3 manouvres for rehearsel and land. Total flight time about 7 minutes max. I usually recharge about 3500-4200 mAhs.

Volkert

Interesting. I guess this is why it's a good idea to start with just a couple of packs to see what works. I was thinking of borrowing a pair of 5S packs just to get an idea of flight times and see how the plane feels.

For what it's worth, it's a 9.5lb model running on 10S, so maybe the amperage is lower? I figured this would be one of the benefits of running 10S over 8

Either way I guess that's a different thread... I will look into some generators, but something tells me that's beyond this season's budget[&o]

Joe,

For equal power (watts), the amps will be lower on 10S. Lighter planes should use less mah for equal flights, and 9.5 lbs is certainly a full 10% lighter than the average electric - I'd think that would translate into a 10% reduction in mah used for equal flights for patterns with big verticals - probably only 5% tho on less demanding patterns.

Regards,

Dave

Hi Joe,
I spent a little time on Progressive's site. Lots of good info there. If I wasn't already commited I would probably try the 1010B+. Most charger manufacturers, that don't sell batteries, will sell adapter boards that fit the jack in their charger. Each battery company uses a different balance plug to make things confusing. What iCharge has is a board that will fit into their charger and one particular battery type. The plugs also change with cell count so that board will fit everything from 2s through 6s. The cool thing is it looks like the iCharge adapters also allow you to plug in multiple packs! So to charge two 5s packs you only need one adapter or three 2s packs , etc. With my FMA I had to get an adapter for each pack although their adapter boards fit two kinds of batteries.

So when you order your charger you will need to order the adapter board for the batteries you intend to use. If you have several brands of batteries then you will need several boards. Hope that helps it was a lot of typing.

Sounds like your practice routine is similar to mine. I have seen several guys charge off of a running car and probably will work fine to get you started. I don't like the wear on my car and since I fly alone most of the time I want to make sure my car will start when it is time to go home. A local guy did short a pack while it was charging under the hood and burned his car to the ground. Which is another reason why I use the marine battery for field charging and always take it out of the car. Picked up a little fire extinguisher that will also live in the van just to make me feel better.

Anthiny,

I have the iCharger 1010B which is the predecessor to the 1010B+ and you are correct about the balancer boards. I charge my 5S packs as one 10S pack by plugging the balance tabs into the board in the appropriate slots.

A 1010B+ is in my future as it has a built in USB port and supports logview as well as firmware upgrades. I had to add a USB adapter to my 1010B (and the manufacturer supported useres doing this) so I could update the firmware but it does not allow me to use logview.

Pete

What kind of connectors should I use on my batteries and ESC? There's Deans, and the one that's two wide blades (not sure of the name) that seems a little easier for larger applications...

a lot of people use these Dean's plugs

http://www.wsdeans.com/products/plugs/ultra_plug.html

I always understood Deans are rated until 50 Amps. I use 4mm gold connectors. Hobby King is a good source for them. Some use 5,5mm but I think 4 mm does the job.

Volkert

http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=67&Product_Name=4mm_Gold _Connectors_10_pairs_(20pc)