Please Wattsup, don't take it that way.!!!, Chris one of the nices people you will ever meet.This guy will go out his way to help anyone.
I have been friends with Chris for a every long time. So please, don't take Chris's comments has belittleing.

jarvis, it's very kind for you to respond. He needs to realize as editor of the K Factor, he represents the NSRCA, and as such he should exercise some degree of caution with his responses here on RCU. The RCU is not some small organization out in cyberspace. Taking it a step further, if I'm not mistaken, he and other officers with NSRCA have been con-
cerned in recent years about the declining membership with NSRCA and pattern in general. It does not take very much thought or reasoning to decipher why this is such a problem! Thanks again____Everette

Point well taking

lol.. Ok. well, clearly you took my post the wrong way Everette. It's hard to read how a person is actually saying something online. I was merely trying to explain the full situation of my flights, and batteries as you asked about, and joked about selling you my batteries as something to laugh about. I was told not to use smiley's a long time ago as they come across wrong, so I didn't put any smileys in there.

Sorry it was read out of context. This is the whole reason I quit using online forums until a few posts recently. Things are taken wrong here which has also happened to you as I have read in other posts. You clearly don't know me, or you would know that's not how I was saying it. As Jarvis states, I am more than willing to help anyone, and I am usually one of the busiest people at a contest.

BTW, I am not the Editor anymore. I laid it down last month. I will update my sig. Forgot it was on there.

Sorry if it came across wrong. I will now go back to not posting..

Chris

Chirs, you have alot of valuable experience/info with the electrics, etc that alot of other electric pattern flyers can glean from. It is your choice not to post and I more than most can appreciate your feelings. I don't think you realize how much your posts alone has helped me in the last 2-3 years. Thanks____Everette

I learned long ago it's best to give people the benefit of the doubt when discussing things on line. Most people on these types of discussion boards are not intending to post in an offensive manor. I've been told that smiles are not good or that they are childish but I disagree. I generally will use them when discussing things with someone I'm not very familiar with.

Cheers,

Wiz

Everette,

That's a very kind thing of you to say! I really appreciate that!

Know this about me, if I post that I like something, it's because I do. Not because I am sponsored, or getting to test something. I say the truth about how I feel always. If I didn't like something, I would, and have said it as we all know. hehe. So I really appreciate knowing that my comments may have helped someone! I have learned a lot from the forums! And I just want to give back any knowledge that I may come into. Whether it's agreed with or not. I have really worked hard to try to gain respect after earlier on in my posting days at RCU learning a pretty good lesson. And was also one of the reasons I took on the Editor position. I wanted to give back! No longer the editor as work was pretty busy this past 6-8 months so I had to lay it down regretfully. I will someday return to working for the NSRCA as I believe in the organization and what it stands for. We can make pattern grow, I just know we can! And if not, well, I couldn't think of a bunch of guys that I would rather fly with than the current pattern guys from around this country! It's funny how you get to know someone online here, but when you meet them at the nats, they are so much more gracious, and humble. But really, the organization works hard in ways that no one knows. And they really do have our best interests in mind. I never realized till I worked there. It has been an honor to work for the NSRCA. And I miss it already! But I do really look forward to being able to get a KFactor in the mail, and reading it for once! I haven't actually read one for at least 3 years now. haha

Jarvis,

I ordered 2 more sets of the PU packs. So plan on dialing your throttle back! haha

Chris

Chris, Your response gave us all a little more insight into who you are, your opinions and just as important, your values and your feelings for others. You really did not have to answer my last entry but you did and I'm glad! I wish you continued success and look forward to your future contributions to this thread and the NSRCA. Thanks____Everette

Chris isn't the editor of the K-Factor - hasn't been for a couple of months now. One person does not make an organization...

i have read this thread many times and all of you reading with 21x14 apc prop about 6000rpms why i have read 5600 rpms with my set up? (6330- cc hv 80a - zippy 4000mah) Also mine apc 21x14 is 130gr not 109....

There a few things that can result in lower rpm, but the most obvious is batteries that cannot maintain voltage under heavy load. You said the batteries are 4000mah, but what C rating?

A few other things that can effect rpm are timing of the ESC, is the throttle end point set so the ESC see 'full throttle'.

Woodie
Team Acme LG

If battery is the root of cause, you may verify it by a Watt meter.
Just checked mine; the Power Unlimited 10S 4900mAh 20C LiPo (40 flights) reads ~37.4V, ~67A, ~6000rpm at full throttle.
My other TP5300 10S 20C pack (153 flights) is ~36.2V, ~65A, ~5800rpm at full throttle.
These readings are just for reference since condition of my motor and test equipments may differ from yours. At least demo the idea how battery loading voltage affects the rpm. Hope this will help.

Luke

The batteries are new only four flights and the c rating are 20

Does this brand of battery need several cycles to "break in" before they reach peak performance?

I think it is a good idea to break in EVERY brand of battery. From everyone I've talked to, this seems to help with length of life as well as performance.

Arch

Is this the one?
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=9365

Bought it recently myself for its low price. It does have an internal resistance that is relative high. I expect this to be the main cause.

Yes this is the baterries i buy this baterries not for the low prices but for the low weight.

May i ask what is the rule of thumb to break in a pack? When is it done?

4 flights at 4 min. then I will fly 4 flights at 8 min. and do not go above 1/2 throttle. After that wide open

OK. no more than half throttle, 4 flights each at 4 min and at 8 min (1/2, 4, 4, 4, 4, 8, 8, 8, 8)

Played with CC ESC HV 85's settings today.

With a partially charged fully break-in Turnigy 10s pack, I found max current drawn is a function of the motor mode setting.

Motor ModeMax=========Amperages
OutRunner==============55A
12mhz===============62A

So it looks like high sampling rate can lead to max amperage increase (and thus higher RPM?).


A second experiment is done afterwards to figure out the max amperage with a fully charged well break-in Turnigy pack.

Motor Mode========Amperages
OuterRunner=========71A
8mhz-============70A
12mhz============72A

It seems that CC HV 85 is more than enough to handle fully charged Turnigy packs without worrying about hitting current limit.


I plan to test fly the plane with the 8mhz motor setting to see if there is an increase in "power", particularly when the battery is partially discharged.

Switching frequency will not change power delivered to the prop, in fact switching is a loss in the system, so you want it set as low as possible. With our motors 8 kHz is more than enough. It may look like more amps, but it is just going out in losses (heat) in the ESC and never getting to the motor.

Timing has an effect on amp draw, but incorrect timing induces additional losses/heat in the ESC, and less RPM and/or amp draw at the motor.

This is why knowing the RPM is so critical when testing, as that is the only way of comparing the "power" the motor is outputting for a given change.

For example, if you change the switch frequency, and you see a 2A increase and no gain in RPM, then you know the 2A are being lost between the battery and motor (likely in the ESC) as heat.

I did not measure the RPM because it was pretty dark.

I did feel the motor was running warmer after the sample rate change. So there is something going on with the motor.

2/18/2011.

Was able to find some time to play with the ESC (CC HV 85) settings more. The same two Turnity packs (5A 10s) are used without re-charging.

Pack# 1 (capacity at about 90%)
Pulse rate: 12KHZ
Current: 68A
RPM: 6200


Pulse rate: 8Khz
Current: 66A
RPM: 6100


Pack #2 (capacity at about 60%)

Pulse rate: 12KHZ
Current: 62A
PRM: 5900-6000

Pulse rate: 8khz
Current: 60A
RPM: 5700-6000

=========

Also compared with a partially charged Blue pack under the same pulse rate setting. It looks like the Turnigy pack is stronger as it can deliver more current (hence higher RPM) even though it voltage drops more. The only minus about the Turnigy packs are the extra 4 oz weight.

Blue pack:
Voltage: 38v
Current: 55A
PRM: 5700

Turnigy pack:
Voltage: 37.72v
Current: 62A
RPM: 5900-6000

============

ESC settings:

Fix point
throttle response 6

break strength: 50%
delay: no
brak ramp: very fast

Cutoff
3.1 v/cell
current limiting: insensitive
cutoff type: soft

Motor
start power: 35
timing: 7
PWM rate: 12 hkz <== this is modified to 8hz and "outerrunner motor" during experiment

firmware: 3.2

What model Plettenberg motor did you test? Thanks

Have been trying to find some information on this impressive motor:
Do we know, for the Himax HC6330-210 F3A:
number of turns ?
number of poles ?
number of stator arms ?

Thanks for your help