RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Silvestri doesn't fly the 110. He might have, a few times, but not constant.

For a flight of 10, it'll be ok.

If you want to fly more, you'll kill your engine. Hacker also confirms this. According to Hacker itself, even 18x10 is too much.

On a moderate day, temperature-wise, here, say 21 degrees celcius, flying with the 18x12 leaves my angine at about 65 degrees after the flight.

You problably wouldn't find that too warm, but it is. If you do that often enough, the magnets lose strength.

A programmable brake isn't a mircale thing. Sure it makes a difference if you have an ESC with a really programmable brake, like the Master Spin 90, or the Schulze, but it won't solve the issue with this plane.

The prop is too small to really brake it. I have looked for 18x10W props, or maybe even three-bladed props, but there aren't any in this size (electric).

The 110 has low wing loading, relatively small frontal area, relatively thin profile. So it accelerates.

I have not yet seen a video of this plane not accelerating.

Don't get me wrong, I love this plane, but I'm not blind to it's shortcomings.

Our Dutch F3A champ has flown mine and someone elses, both with different ESC. This is someone that made it into the semi-finals on the WK F3A. He came to the same conclusion.

They even advice the .50 size bipe over the 110 size, because of the acceleration. You can brake the bipe by using the ailerons.

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

@ hezik: I fully agree that a programmable brake is not a "miracle" thing but definitively can help. Can you also please explain more in detail movement of the ailerons on the bipe in order to create a braking effect. I am also flying warmliners so am quite familiar with "crow" brakes, is it something similar? I guess you have seen the thread about Wind S Pro and the photo where the wings of Wind 110 and S Pro are compared and how much thinner are the wings of the S Pro. I am looking forward to read some flight reports, lets not forget that Seba was using counter-rotating props on that thing, something not everyone has.</p>

As far as I know, from unconfirmed sources, magnets on most motors are good up to 80 Celsius, so not that much on a hot sunny day. On Scorpion motors and some Kontronik motors the magnets are made to resist up to 200 Celsius. I have recently ordered for my Kelly project a Scorpion HK 4035-400 (same size as Hacker 50S series) which should be able to produce 3400W continuous, let's hope its true coz I will really push it to the max!</p>


</p>

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

The brake with the biped is easy. On downlines they let the upper aileron go up, the lower aileron go down. I guess that would be about the same as crow brakes.

The WindS has an even thinner profile. Actually WindS110 is a wrong name, it's more the Angel 110. The WindS 2m is a completely different bird. Only the colorscheme is the same.

The temperature your magnets can handle, is dependend on what type of magnet is actually used. but about 80 degrees is indeed the temperature that these magnets start losing their strength.

Dont forget.. when measuring you're measuring the outside of the motor, after a flight. If you get it at 65 degrees celcius on this measurement, then it has come close to the 80 degrees in flight, or even surpassed it.

Also, you don't get more thrust with the 18x12. This engine is more efficient with the 18x10.

I don't like the 18x12 anyways, but that's also a matter of personal preference. I try to maintain a slow and gracefull flying style... with the emphasis on 'try' :)

I would even try an 18x8 Wide, if it existed.

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

I have a Hyperion Helios 90 with a Mejzlic 18x8 carbon fiber prop which is
wider than the APC prop, lighter also..................might work for you.

tommy s

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

How accurate are the weight specs on Hobby City batteries? Can any of you guys post some real weights?

Thanks.

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Well I can give you the exact weight for the larger ones I have:</p>

Rhino 6S 3700mAh 25C with 6mm bullet connectors: actual 597g, advertised 600g</p>

Turnigy 6S 3600mAh 30C with 4mm bullet connectors: actual 580g, advertised 577g,</p>

Rhino 4S 2250mAh 40C with 6mm bullet connectors: actual 248g, advertised 263g</p>

As you can see they are correct!</p>

Also I have just realized that Xoar is offering 18x9 3 blade E prop, and that might just do the trick with Scorpion 4035-250 on 10S.</p>

http://www.xoarintl.com/props/model-airplane/PJI-E.html</p>

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Tommy
What motor are you useing on your Helios 90e?
I received my Wind-110 and am trying to decide which motor to use, I have the Scorpion 4025-16 on the Helios but am looking at the Scorpion- 4035-??? I will be useing 8s Lipos and the lowest Scorpion 4035 rpm-kv I can find is 330 any info. will be appreciated.

Buddy B

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

gaRCfield

Where did you locate the Scorpion 4035-250 I havent found one listed anywhere.

Buddy

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

http://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalo.../s-4035-250KV/

Isn't 250kv a little low for 8S?

Also is that 3-blade E-prop actually 9" pitch? I thought the pitch would be somewhere between the 6 and 9 listed. Sounds a bit low for pattern flying.

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

[link=http://hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9020&Product_Name=3_Blad e_EP_Propeller_16x8_/_407x204mm]Turnigy Electric 3 Blade[/link]

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

gaRCfield

Following are weight's of Hobby King Lipo packs That I am useing
1. Rhino 4s 3700 mah 20c with Deans Ultra plug =405 Grams
2. Rhino 4s 4900 mah 20c with Deans Ultra plug = 495 Grams
3. Turnigy (with Zippy cells as are the Rhinos) 4s 5000mah 30c with Deans Ultra plug =535 Grams

I plan to use 8s configureation on the SeBart Wind 110. The Hacker motor that many are useing on the Wind 110 is a 270kv motor running on 8s
I am new at e- powered and was trying to match the Hacker A50-16L with a Scorpion 4035- ??? because I have had good experiances with Scorpion any
comments will be appreciated.
Buddy

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

[link=http://hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8216&Product_Name=XR_Typ e_D_Beechwood_3-blade_Sport_Propeller_17x8]another cheap 3 blade electric prop[/link]

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Guys are using the Scorpion 4025-16 on 8S and really liking it. Read back through this thread and you'll see it, and also in the other RC forums - many say it performs much better than the Hacker:
http://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalo...its/S-4025-16/

This will be my first electric too. I only know what I've read (which has been a lot).

Thanks for posting weights!

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Joe . . I wouldn't get too concerned with weight on this plane . . it can handle a heavier wing loading with ease. My friend uses 10S 4900mAh Rhino's in his Wind 110 . . AND . . when there is more wind, he fits a wing tube with LEAD in the center of it. It flies fantastic.

He is a high ranking F3A pilot and does a lot of testing and experimenting with his planes, and would not do this if it didn't make it fly better ! He started with 8S and stock weight . . I flew it and thought it felt too light, even though it still flew nice (my opinion). Now, with more weight and more power, it penetrates better, holds a line cleaner, and requires less correction through manoeuvres.

If using 8S, keep it light . . but for competition, 10S and more weight seems to be a reasonable improvement.

Anyway, best to test it for yourselves and optimize the plane to suit.

PS. He added the canalizer and the wing fences and did testing. Intitially thought he had found some improvements, but removed them and has gone back to the 'clean' airframe, as he found too many adverse affects which he didn't like.

JB

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

More on the Xoar 3-blade electric propellers:
http://www.espritmodel.com/index.asp...OD&ProdID=9725

Wish they were pitched higher and the price is absurd. Nearly the same cost as a Mejzlic, which for some sick reason I'm starting to consider.

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

I found the XOAR EP props to be most affordable, not that expensive but when I saw the price of the little 40 sized 3 bladed props I wanted to faint! Heheheeheheheee

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Buddy B

Scorpion 4025-16 on the Helios 90.
Lucien says the 4035-250 is new for Scorpion and he hasn't received any yet.
I ordered one which he said might be a while getting here to the USA.
I'm in the middle of converting the OTOP to e-power. I've been looking at it for
a couple of months just sitting there with no engine and couldn't resist converting it.
I think the electric conversion will improve it's big shortcoming which is it's a slick
design and is hard to slow down in downlines. Maybe the bigger prop and braking
will make it better, we'll see. I always liked how it flew, just got tired of fighting with
the touchy YS engines.
Glad you and Larry finally got your Wind 110s......it took long enough.

tommy s

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

word.

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Ok I have put some numbers in motocalc simulating Wind 110 on 4035-250 with 3 blade Xoar 18x19 on 10S 4900 Rhino, for the total weight of 4,2 kg and what has come out is encouraging!</p>

Couple of numbers: 70A with 2,5 Kw which is OK for the motor.Max. speed a bit low, 80km/h, due to pitch 9. Throttle at 66% for cruising.With a programmable brake on ESC with this prop the speed in downlines should be greatly reduced. Prop with the pitch size 10 would do better but unfortunatelu it doesnt exist!</p>

Other notes from motocalc:</p>

With a wing loading of 72,3g/dm&sup2;,
The static thrust (9319g) to weight (4195g) ratio is 2,22:1, which will result in extremely short take-off runs, no difficulty taking off from grass surfaces (assuming sufficiently large wheels), and vertical climb-outs. This model will probably be able to perform a hover or torque roll.
At the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed, the excess-thrust (4576g) to weight (4195g) ratio is 1,09:1, which will give very steep climbs and incredible acceleration. This model can easily do consecutive loops, and has sufficient in-flight thrust for any aerobatic maneuver.</p>


</p>

So far I have had experience with APC, TGS, Aeronaut and Turnigy light electric props and by far the best Amps/performance ratio is with TR light electric props (probably the same as Xoar). The only problem is that they are extremely sensitive having very thin tips.

</p>

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Velco ... I like mine with an 18x10 ... its sweet, maybe with an 18x10 3 blade she will be able to help a bit in the downline braking, if there were one. :)

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Mejzlik has an 18x10 3-blade, but it is not designated 'electric', also a 16x11.

I think that 16x11 sounds pretty good; not sure how it will measure up regarding amperage, wattage, etc. Can someone run that on a reliable calculator?

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

tIANci ... I have learned to use motocalc more for comparison then to calculate real life numbers, therefore if I keep everything the same as in my previous simulation just changing the prop to 2 blade 18x10 this is what comes out:</p>

At the best lift-to-drag ratio airspeed, the excess-thrust (5227g) to weight (4195g) ratio is 1,25:1</p>

This is, from my point of view, the most important info we can get from motocalc. We actually can feel this as the "reserve" of power we have from a certain combo. So comparing this combo to a previous one, yes it would feel better then the previous one but not that much, but with less braking effect. Anything better then 1,05:1 is very good. This is my conclusion after countless hours [8D] spent in motocalc analyzing all possible combos used by the Pro guys!
</p>

And as the last thing, hypothetically if there would be an 18x10 3 blade, then the result is fascinating 1,39:1 for 70A static. If only at reasonable price ...</p>gaRCfield ... 16x11 looks also very good 1,36:1 but lets not forget that reduced diameter and increased pitch will worsen the braking effect (and that is why we have started all this discussion :)) resulting, probably in worse braking effect then with 18x10

Mejzlik 3 blade 18x10 is 90$ +, sorry, too much for my taste

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

The 16x11 is a 3 blade, so even though it's less diameter doesn't it still have more surface area for breaking? And it sells for about $62:
http://www.desertaircraft.com/page.php?Page=Mejzlik

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

16" for a plane this size? You will need the RPMs for the desired thrust and will that cause the plane to fly faster on the uplines and even on level flight compared with an 18"?

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

The numbers I have posted for 16x11 were for a 3 blade prop.</p>

OK, now to have it precise, I have again put some numbers in motocalc and 16x11 3 blade will generate marginally less braking effect then 18x10, probably not noticable in the air. So it s not worth the investment especially compared to this baby http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9361</p>

Lets not forget that when comparing things in motocalc all I can simulate is the difference between the same type of props not the difference between APC and Mejzlik as I have never owned a Mejzlik prop, most probably the best props and most expensive props available. Here in Europe things usually cost in numbers the same as in the US, "the only" difference is the currency, Euro against the $. Check it out here http://mejzlikmodellbau.inshop.cz/inshop/</p>

Last night I wrote here about all my experience and results between APC, TGS, Aeronaut Cam Carbon (I don't know if they are available in the US) and Turnigy Light Electric props. And just before posting it I lost it [:@]! Lets give it one more try ;):</p>

Last summer on Element 30 I was experimenting with different props of the same size(12x8) and the results were shocking; from 40A to 53A. Also the performance was always matching the power used. Then I tried 16x10 TR Light Electric, extremely quiet, thus effective, on my .50 size Yak. There was almost no change of sound even under most extreme 3d maneuvers! Before that I had 16x10 TGS, a better performer and more power demanding then APC 16x10. Well TR needs 10% less power for almost the same performance as TGS and APC.</p>

I am writing all this coz prop and bat can make a huge difference to your plane. I don't want to tell you how bad was Element with Kokam H5 30C 3200 with Aeronaut 12x8 prop compared to Flightmax 30C 2650 and TGS 12x8 prop. I am waiting for TR 12x8 for a final judgment on TR props. I don't want even to try APC and TGS on my Angel!</p>