RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Thanks guys, that's why I asked! I know you hate when I do this, but a 15x10 was awesome on the Venus [sm=eek.gif] Different plane, but same size.

Velco, thanks for crunching the numbers, I appreciate it;)

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Any time :)

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Hello All

I am going to order the Wind S110e. I have a couple of questions though. Will Hitec HS5245's be the right size and performance for an in-the-tail (HS) installation? Also would they work on the ailerons as well? I ask this because I have 4 that are unused at the moment. I will be going with the recommended Hacker A50-16L setup with either a 4000 or 5000maH Turnigy 8S battery setup. I am waffling between the CC85HV or the CC Ice 75. The Ice 75 is attractive for the price but is limited to 8S but I do not see this as a problem. Has anyone had any experience with any of this equipement? I have read with extreme interest this whole thread and have decided that the Hacker is the way to go for me. I will be mostly using the airplane for practice AMA Intermediate and Advanced sequences and maybe a very slight chance of a contest or two next summer.


Cheers

MJ

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Hi Guys,
Just got my wind & plan on a 6s set up. I have read up to page 11 & see 6s is being used but eyes are tired :) so forgive me if my answer lies somewhere after page 12. Reading the reports from the 6s set ups so far power is low but in my opinion this is from motor choice as I plan on a 5320-18 which produces about 1800 watts on my other set ups with an 18x10. Using 1 6s pack - from the other weights Im seeing I should come in about 8,5 lbs with my choice of gear. My question is has anyone shoe horned one of these in there yet?

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

There are some pics in the thread with some Hyperion motors crammed in the nose. Looks like it requires some cutting. The one thing I notice about your motor is the mounting holes are a different diameter than the pre-drilled holes in the firewall, so you'll have to figure out a way to make it work. I have read through the threads a few times and haven't heard of an Axi stuffed in the plane yet, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There is some mention of it but no reports on whether or not it happened.

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7905478/mpage_11/key_/tm.htm#]See the Hyperion stuffing inside this fat bird here[/link]

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

hezik....

Do you have any issues with your Futaba 9650's on the ailerons? As my previous post indicates, I have some Hitec 5245's that I would like to use on this machine and the torque specs for the Hitec are a bit more than the 9650. Hence my question. If the 9650's are working well for you then the 5245's should work for me.

Thanks

MJ

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

No problems at all with the 9650's, they work fine. I would even put them on a 2m electric bird. They're not suited for a glow-powered plane, it will work but the gears will wear to fast.

On the elevators I also use 9650's, but that's about the biggest servo you can fit in the stab. If you want to use bigger, you'd have to mount them in the fuse.

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Thanks hezik........

This has convinced me to put the Hitec 5245's in the tail and ailerons as you have done with the 9650's. They should be very comparable in size,torque and speed. I am going to go with the Hacker A50-16L with a CC85HV and a seperate CC BEC. I have the BEC in a 3D Hobby Aspera and it works very well. I will not have a seperate rx battery. Looking forward to it all.

Cheers

MJ

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

I think speed is as important on the elevator servos as torque. I had slower servos on the tail of my Venus and faster ones in the ailerons - would have rather had them switched. I like to have the most precise control of the pitch of the airplane for precision loop radii. I'm looking at the Airtronics 94761's on the elevator and not even sure if they are fast enough for me at .12s / 6 volts. JR has a servo - 3517 - that operates at .09s, which is what my aileron servos are. Of course they're $90 instead of $60, but it might be worth it here.

With the JR DS821's (.15s) I felt like I had to judge the latency of the servo when exiting a loop/maneuver - it didn't feel instantaneous as I let go of the sticks.

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Is this plane competitive up to advanced? Am I better off with a full 2M ship? This plane looks great and the price is right, I just don't want to put myself at any disadvantage by it not being a full 2M.

I know it comes down to pilot skill in the end, but if all things are equal do the full 2M planes have an advantage over a plane this size in competition? I don't want to spend a fortune but I also don't want to lose for any other reason than my flying.

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

It's fully possible to fly high-level with this plane, but if you really want to end high, scorewise, you'd be better of with a 2m plane. This one comes close, but it's not a 2m bird.

I'll be using it to fly competition in P11 coming year. It flies P11 fine. To get into the top class one has to qualify over here, amongst other things by flying at least 55% of the maximum score. Though not official, I have flown 65% on the P11 schedule with the WindS 110 (so an average of 6.5 for each figure), and I'm not worldst greatest pilot, far from.

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

I only got the Wind 110 because I don't have the room in my apartment or car for a full 2M ship. If you can fit and afford one, get one. Technically the Wind 110 is a practice F3A plane. Bigger flies better.

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Hi all,

I have some info that might be of interest to those that have not assembled their Wind yet. I got to a point yesterday in my assembly and setup to where I could do a preliminary CG balance check. Buddy B and I both noticed on several posts on this forum where folks were running their battery packs all the way back against the wing tube. Due to that post I made the decision to use the larger servos mounted in the fuse for elevator control rather than in the stabs. My plane is all stock with the following equipment installed:

Hacker A50-16L
APC 16x10 Prop
CC HV-85 ESC
CC 10amp BEC
JR DS821 Digitals for Ailerons and Elevator halves (wt 1.5 oz each)
Futaba S9151 Digital for rudder
Rhino 4S 4900 25C x 2

The only modification that I made was to install a hatch latch which is behind CG. On the check balance, with the battery packs all the way back against the tube, I could only achieve a 175mm CG point. The manual says that for F3A it should be 175 to 185mm. I had my receiver at the wing tube location temporarily, so I moved it to the turtle deck area and was able to achieve 180mm CG point.
The point I am trying to make here is that if I had installed the Futaba s9650's in the stabs like I had originally planned on doing and the manual calls for, I would have really been nose heavy as they are .6 oz each lighter than the JR's that I used. Joe, this may really apply to you since you are planning on going 10S, as your batteries most likely will weigh more than mine. I may end up having to install a seperate receiver battery in the turtle deck with the receiver to allow me to move the CG further backwards. I am going to wait until I actually fly it first to see how it performs and what it will take to get it trimmed right.
I also ran some checks on the incidences. I found .2 degrees difference between the two wings. The stabs and the right wing panel are at zero zero. Again the left wing is -.2 degrees negative to the stabs. So it most definitely will require up elevator to fly, as most of the posts have indicated. No easy fix for that other than CG, and that is not a very good option since I cannot move it any further back without building a platform to raise the batteries up to allow them to go further back. And even then they will only be able to move back about one more inch before they hit the rudder servo, so I do not feel this is a very good option at all.
This info might be a consideration to those who have not purchased their motors yet as the Scorpions are lighter than the Hackers. Also, there is one other option that I had considered even before I made the decision to install the elevator servos in the fuse. You could actually go ahead and install the elevator servos in the stabs and then install the rudder servo in one of the rear slots in the fuse for rudder control, thus doing away with the pull pull system. If I need further rear CG, I still might go that route as that would be an easy fix, just one hole to cover with Oracoate. That would surely allow you room to move the batteries around to adjust CG as there is plenty of room to go forward with the batteries. Also, shorter batteries than the ones that I have would help.
Again, just info for those who might be interested. I will post more info when I finish final assembly and get a few flights on it, including final weight, etc. I would like to take this opportunity to wish everyone a very Safe and Happy Holiday Season,

Larry.....

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

I have measured mine and both wings and stab are at 0 degrees. Keep in mind that with a wooden ARF, some minor differences are always possible.

I think this plane would have needed an wing incidence of 0.4 or something in that region.

However, the rest of your remarks are valid points. The idea to mount the elevator servo's in the stab and the rudder servo in the fuse in the 'fuse-elevator-positions' hadn't come up in me, is a good plan!

I have the batteries (5000mAh Zippy) against the wingtube and built the receiver and receiver battery on a small tray i glued in behind the canopy. If you take a good look at the manual, seba also put it there. I have tried an even more aft CG, but thet didnt make things better.

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Larry, great update - thanks for the heads up! I will try to build the plane before I buy the motor and batteries, however I have a hard time with discipline so I doubt that will happen. There will be a difference in the 10S setup however, as the Scorpion is 2oz lighter than the Hacker in the nose, and the receiver battery will add some weight behind the wing tube. That being said, I will re-plan things out before I buy the mini elevator servos.

House is on TV and it's my favorite show ever, so I might have to re-read your post and see what I missed:D

By the way, can you take some pics of the hatch latch install? I'm curious how it worked out. I have to use a tool to unscrew the canopy from my Yak and it drives me nuts - and that plane is glow:eek:

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Hezik,

Glad to hear that you tried a further aft cg and that it made no difference. I experienced this same thing with my Miss Wind. Moved it back as far as I could until it got real touchy and it never made any difference on the up elevator trim, so I took down the back of the top wing. That is why I am not going to do anything until after I fly the Wind. You are right, wooden airplanes are all different. I also agree that from the posts on this forum that it probably will need about .4 degrees positive incidence to get rid of the up elevator. We shall see. One other thing, I also find it very hard to get a good measurement of stab incidence with the anhedral (sp) designed in the stabs. Another reason to fly it before doing anything.
Let it be known to all that I am in no way complaining one bit when I post these things that I find with these planes. I am still totally amazed at how well the SebArt planes are built and perform. This is my third model from them and all are as good as I could ever expect a plane to be built. I am a pretty good builder and I don't think I could come close to the quality of these planes. Both the Miss Wind and this plane, everything fit without having to fudge or push or modify anything. The Wind stab and wing halves fit perfectly into the sides of the fuse, anti rotation pins align perfectly, all bolts lined up perfectly, everything is great.

Joe,
I will post some pics of my hatch latch installation, but it was pretty simple to do. I too dislike taking out screws to remove the hatch. All of the years flying 2M fiberglass fuse pattern planes with hatch latches spoiled me rotten. Again, very simple mod... I have a new camera so I will have to figure out how to take a close up pic first...lolol. One other thing I thought of with your proposed setup. You mentioned using fiberglass gear. They will be ahead of the cg too so that will also make you a little lighter in the nose. If you need more aft weight you can always change from stab mounted servos to fuse mounted very easily down the road. Just a thought...

Larry...

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Here's just a crazy random thought:

What if one were to install little trim tabs on the TE of the wings, inboard of the ailerons like little flaps? This would increase lift and create drag, and essentially change the AOA of the wing to a more positive attitude, and allow for the removal of the up-elevator for level flight.

I have also thought about a velcro strip on the leading edge, though haven't thought it through enough to figure out what the result would be. I know people do it to create turbulence over the wing which enhances the response of the ailerons (making them less sensitive?).

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Turbulators.. no idea how and if they work. I can imagine they're designed to disturb the boundary layer?

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Yeah the velcro strap is a 'turbulator' I guess. reading about turbulators, it seems the point is actually to reduce drag, not increase it. i think rc guys use it because turbulent air over the aileron feels 'softer' kind of like expo.

still wondering what the downside of trim tabs would be...

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Hi Guys

I know with full scale aircraft that they put "vortex generators" on the first 1/4 of the wing to essentially do what you guys are talking about. It is to re-energize the boundary layer to delay the seperation that happens normally with a relatively slow speed airfoil at about 3/4 of the chord distance. The placement of the generators is critical and is determined with wind tunnel testing. It also varies from airfoil to airfoil. I think arbitrarily putting a piece of velcro on the leading edge is really cut and paste technology but maybe worth a try. Who am I to say? Don't forget we are dealing with quite high renoyld's (sp)? numbers here and the effectbetween full and model scale can be very different. Maybea better and proven way would be to put a "trip" of 1/8th wide tape at the thickest part of the airfoil and build it up to .030 or .040 thickness. I have personally used this with a high performance sailplane airfoil and it gave me at least a 10% gain in lift and controllability. Some say BS but I have the gongs (trophies) on the wall to prove it. I was not that good of a pilot!! You might have to do this on the top and bottom of the wing to make it symmetricalto have noadverse effects both upright and inverted. Once again, it might be worth a try. Only my opinion based on previous experience.

Cheers

MJ

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

i wish i could run 3d stuff in fluent [&o]

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Joe ... you are getting too many ideas! Heheheheheee ...

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

It's all this stinking down time! I'm just starting to move so I can't really play with my plane. No simulator, but I just bought the new Airtronics 10ch radio which should be here in a few days. Nothing to do but think about my plane! But you're right, I'm going nuts and need to stop :D

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Joe ... I am keen to get the new 10ch. I need it for my MsWind ... the 9X cannot program a bipe properly. I use that as an excuse to justify getting a new toy. :) Anyways, start building her, the plane can be ready in 2 evenings.

RE: Sebart Wind 110
 

Larry,

My Wind 110 was put together exactly as the instructions showed..., JR 3421sa's
for elevators inside stabs, JR 9411sa's for ailerons, JR 8611 for rudder, Castle
85HV mounted on ply piece as instructions showed, Hacker motor with rear support,
Power Box Digi-Switch/regulator mounted in supplied hole, APC 18x10e prop with
Tru-Turn spinner, receiver just inside rear deck, Flight Power 1345 mah receiver
battery forward of, just touching wing tube, stock landing gear with MPI aluminum wheels,
MKD tailwheel, no added weight anywhere.
With two Rhino 4900 mah batteries the airplane balances with the batteries about 1/4 inch
in front of the receiver battery almost exactly in the position as shown on the Sebart
instructions. My elevator may have just a hair of up trim but not enough to notice. The only
things different than Seba's are the Tru-Turn spinner and the MKD tailwheel.
The airplane is not very CG sensitive, It flies the same with 3700 or 4900 mah batteries
and I've moved them forward and back and it makes little difference.
Good luck with yours.

tommy s

PS: If you want your landing gear fairings to stay on use just a couple of dabs of "Goop"
and they're not going anywhere.