ToyFigure

Thanks R-Rudder. Will order the LiPoly batteries today.

BTW...MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY

Cautrell05

I went with 2 cell 1200 packs for mine. drops the weight down to 300g ready to fly. Mine was 350 out of the box. I am using the ms e230 one way main gear and one way bearing. I never counted the teeth on the stock main gear but the hornet 2 gear is 1/16-1/8 inch smaller. If your running the stock main gear you might need to go with a larger pinion to get the headspeed up.
Nick

swashplate

Hey try sliding main shaft up and down and if it goes, then you need to slide the shaft collar down, which tightens the mesh between the head boom gear and the main gear which does slip if they are loose. This really did the trick with mine. Hope it helps.
BTW stock gain/limit settings were great, go figure.

ToyFigure

I'm having the same problems with the tail rudder too. It just keeps spinning the heli around in counter colckwise direction (even when I had the empennage on the control all the way to the right). When I tried to give it throttle and the whole heli tilted to the right like I was trying to do a right turn with the right control stick. Tried to correct this with the right control all the way to the right didn't help.

Please help out a newbie to trim his first helicopter.

Thanks.

FlyingFish

My Feedback: (17)

So far from what I've read about the Dragonfly 22d, it reminds me of all the "cheap micro heli" horror storys I've heard about the Aerohawk!

However, the one good thing about the Dragonfly 22d is that it's so simular to the old Hornet FP Heli, that you are probably better off going seperates for reliable flying time. I may order a Dragonfly and tare it down and use seperate receiver, gyro, servos, ect....

swashplate

OK. I want to say a few things here, but I am no expert, so please if you feel the need to flame, flame me directly. First off I think that if you want to fly a sweet bird, the 22d is it, the sweetest forgery going. it is also a fragile, compendium of engineering don'ts. Why this dichotomy? It was born to be modded within an inch of its life. Don't expect it to be killer out of the box. It will really need to be tuned up allot. what does it take to get it tuned up without after market mods? PATIENCE[8D]!!!! Or you will turn it to into plastic bits in about 3 seconds[X(]. Truly though it is much more robust a model than the gws dragonfly, and if you use a peak charger instead of the lame one it comes with for the nmhs it CAN actually hold a full 10 to 15 minute charge.
1)The blades must be balanced AND tracked
2)the paddles MUST BE and track parallel with the swash.
3)the swash must be trimmed level at the servos first, transmitter second
4)you must trim out the tail pitch servo horn to be parallel with the bell crank so the tail pitch slider is nearly centered, and has enough room to even be adjusted by the trim on the trans tab effectively.
5)try putting the battery under the nose so you don't have to keep balancing it on its moving tail gear.
6)THE GYRO MUST BE TUNED TO YOUR SETUP, mine are: DELAY= all the way clockwise; LIMIT= all the way clockwise then backed up till its a few degrees before horizontal. Any thing else and it spins wildly, with this setting it is POSSIBLE (not easy) to control IF the rest of the heli is trimmed out.
7)the pivot post for the bell crank loves to come lose, don't glue it back unless you have glue you know will work. I learned a secret on another forum site that i will share now here, and it works on MANY BROKEN PLASTIC PIECES: FUSE THEM BACK TOGETHER WITH A SOLDERING IRON!! It has revolutionized my hobby experience. Broken parts can some times become... stronger.
The truth of the matter is that the combined margin of error between the cyclic, swash, the slop in the tail and the inferior gyro/radio equipment make trimming this heli extremely challenging for a beginner. The reason I went 22d was because it seems like it will be possible to really trick this bad boy out go collective and everything, sure that means like 500+ plus new transmitter, but i can do it incrementally, starting for less than a hornet, with no need to already own a trans. voila! um yeah, this is not so specific[:-], but I hope it helps.

ToyFigure

Thanks swashplate. I have looked at the gyro and noticed that the Delay and Limit are not at what you have stated here. Will try it and hopefully with enough tries I can have her up.

Thanks again!!

swashplate

Hey there all since i last "fused" tail gear box it came apart again, so drilled out the spot where the old post was and put in a coat hanger "retainer style" clip to hold on the bell crank. so far it has been so strong i had my first ever tail box slipage ( a good thing cause nothing broke at all)! FORTE! I also replaced the linkage to the bell crank with a more flexable styrene one from an old airplane linkage with the post seperated on one side to alow it topop open. made it fit by opening up the bell cranks hole abit. I cant stress how much patience this all takes, for some people they like to mod and fix it but i wanna fly! i have almost given up on this thing as dead so many times! Just to find out a quick fix is one drilled hole, one drop of glue, or a peice of wire, or duck tape, or some random thing that just takes a little thinking to get it going again

ToyFigure

swashplate,

Took a good look at my gyro last night and was trying to set the Limit and Delay. All I saw was two pieces of red tape covering the holes so I crank open the gyro case...then I saw the two silver 'botton' kind of thing that I can set them with a small screw driver.

Will try to set the gyro as you've stated and hopefully I can get some improvement out of it. Have had this heli for a week and no luck whatsoever trying to keep the tail from spinning in circles[:@]

swashplate

Yeah for me was hop-crash-break-pullouthair-jerry rig-hop-crash-break-pullouthair-jerry rig-repeat, it is slowing down a bit...But like i said before, this is not a top of the line "fly out of the box" (like they ALL say) model. So you will really have to be patient and persistant, AND be ready to scrap it/ mod it into another dimension. I have two of the nmh batteries, and one of them will only make enough power to make it hop/spin/crash violently so I'm really thinking of getting some lipos. the other thing is that even once its hovering (which i can get it to do for about 5-10 seconds max) the radio twitches the tail around quite badly. Im looking around the house for a small ferite, but im not sure that will do it, because the "twitching" is so intense it seems like the whole signal gets botched.
any way seperates for it would be reasonable cause you only got one esc and no mixer to deal with. It just gets EXPENSIVE real quick once you start. As much as i would love to trick it out all at once, what i really want to do is get me a real transmitter and put the hornet collective upgrade on it. i think the bell hiller mechanism is kind of like the holly grail of gadgety widgets for me, and once that trans mitter is in hand, i belive my life will be centered around earning money for DUZI upgrades.
more notes:
1)what direction is it spinning?either could be gyro, but one way or the other IS VERY INDICATIVE OF DIFFERENT THINGS:counter-clockwise means the tail prop is not producing enough thrust/pitch thus the linkage is either too long or not functional, or one of you blade grip pins is missing, or the servo horn is too far back. clock wise means too much trim/pitch/ too short linkage or servo horn too far forward
2)the gyro is realy sensitive (and quite drifty even when "perfect")so adjust it in micro increments (once you have maxed them both clockwise and got the top one and backed up to just a bit before horizontal (if any body has better settings i would love em)
3)Make SURE that you have all the peices still attached to your rig and all linkages are free and all meshes are tight, they like to go flying off, come loose, get lost ect, especialy the TINY ones of which there are MANY. blade grip pins, bell crank retainer, main mesh, tail box mesh, check them all. make sure they are ALL there and not broke

Good luck!
ps could try and post a pic of my indestructable bell crank clip if any body is interested. how you post a picture?[:-]

R-Rudder

Try to increase the DELAY clockwise a little at a time.

ToyFigure

Last night I set the Limit all the way to the right (clockwise) and the Delay to the max then backup till almost horizontal like what swashplate had suggested and it seemed better then before (althought I still can't get it off the ground but the tail spinnings seemed reduced).

I'm going to play with the Delay tonight and see how it goes but it sucks since I have to crack open the gyro casing in order to get to the dials [:@]

Thanks guys!

butthead222

I have had the same problem I ran out of "throw" for the tail trim so I shoetened the pushrod by bending it at the s bend by the body crude but effective. The problem I am having after just five battery packs is intermittent operation or responce to the radio. It will not respond to the controls mostly to the throtle. Will still run with the throtle shut off???

butthead222

Please help....I have just received my new Dragonfly 22D. I live in Korea so getting anything is very hard and takes time. After 5 or 6 charges through the heli the motor !QUOT!ran!QUOT! away. With the throttle closed it still ran. Now it seems to have a mind of its own. I tested it this morning and would run up the throttle about half let it run for a few seconds shut the throttle and it still runs. But only sometimes not every time. If I squeeze the 3 in 1 board it stops. Are my worst fears true? If I need a replacement board which way would I go??? Thanks for any help. By the way it flew much better than my first heli a Jabo 2 which flew alright I just got tired of waiting 6 weeks for replacement tail motors.

swashplate

Butthead (just had to say that...):
Are you sure you have a full charge in the transmitter and heli batteries? Cause the radio goes haywire for me when the heli battery goes down. Also the nimh batteries need to be fully discharged before they are charged again. I do this by letting it run down and then when its low i put it through the motor directly to drain it all the way down before re-charging. Also mine came with two batteries and only one of them will hold a decent charge, so maybey you have a defective battery that will not alow a full signal connection. If the problem goes away when you squeeze the board maybey you could open the reciever box and look for a loose solder conection, possibly from a crash, that you or one of the tech guys over there could resolder. Possibly you have interference from your proximity to broad-spectral radio emisions, possibly some of those could be filtered witha ferrite bead. Also make sure you have the antenna all the way out!
Good luck!

Hover Dude

hi all
i guess i have to join the "spinning club". well for my 16 birthday i wanted a heli so i ordered the hummingbird 22d. i recieve it on tuesday. first thing i noticed when i switched it on and increase the throttle was that the thing kept yawing. even with the yaw trim at max and me doing all i can to stop it spinning at full power the tail rotor does not produce enough thrust to stop the heli spinning. i was thinking about removing the whole tail rotor system and using a direct drive or ducted fan for the tail. would this work? any help is appreciated.
thanx
hover dude

swashplate

It diffinately can produce enough thrust to over come the torque of the main rotor, the question is is the tail rotor servo holding the pitch of the tail rotor in the correct range for the manual and gyroscopic input to be effective. In your case the answer would be no. Remember these Inferior modles (22d, jabo, ect) will need more initial tuning than their original counter parts i.e. hornet, dragonfly. Dont run off and commit your self to Many hundreds of dollars those two escs mixers, duct system, reciever, gyro and transmitter will cost you before you at least get it tuned up. most spinning problems arise from servo linkages and gyroscope settings being outside of flight tolerences. limit too high and or delay too short for gyro. start and stop possitions too far in one direction or other for linkages or servo horns. Also check gear meshes and pitch pins on tail, its the in the details. Read the rest of this and some other threads on this site, maybey some hornet ones. Dont give up. What direction does it spin? A solid tail during hover is an engineering FEAT no matter how you look at it, so keep in mind the intricacy and complexity of the multiple dynamic systems involved and forget what it say about RTF this "out of the box that". Try to under stand the relation ship between the location of the control input(your thumb) and the resulting out-put (tail thrust), and then follow chain-reaction and consider what can change it, soft link between tx and rx on to direct between tail servo horn and bell crank. In here you have alot of control and that is where you should start. Try to give thetail pitch on the output shaft slider as much room as possible when the tx is on and the tab trim is centered. then go for the gyro, I now have my delay in almost the same position as my limit so i think it varies with your set up and temperature.
Good luck!

swashplate

Well all was well : hovering, tail realitivly steady, boom, one last crash, tail out put shaft snapped at the retainer clip groove[:@]. Next one will be titanium[>:]. No flying till then but, glad to try to help you guys with specific questions get in the air...[&:]

johnnycool

My Feedback: (8)

Swash and others,

I'm also a newbie with a 22D on order (my 1st heli). I enjoy reading about problems with this machine (no offense) and appreciate the info so that when i get mine, I'll be ready to correct.
If there are specific items that most people need fixed or replaced, being a prototype machinist, I have access to materials and machines to make trick parts. As we all go forward , be sure to let me know if I can help make it easier on all of us.

Later,
Johnnycool

swashplate

YES![8D] Hey now that sounds like a mighty fine propo. Right now I'm now seriously thinking along the lines of a bare bones 22a (between the carbon blades, and collective mechanism its Very tempting) to upgrade. I agree with myself on thinking duzi-tricked hornets fly better than ANYTHING HANDS DOWN. That is why i got the 22d (to up-grade). But the esky fp head on the 22d is WEAK. I love this hobby and have wild asperations, but not so much spare $$$. Now I dont want to jump the gun here, but with my entreprenuerial asperations getting the better of me, I think it would be very wise to considder your route. Good thinking I say. These types of parts are quite easy to make with the right know how ( I made a two speed worm gear transmition in solid works one time, so the little parts look easy, but I dont do that stuff any more...so i dont realy know), and it seems like the mark up is quite good. its the over head costs that are killer. You did say prototypes so limited production i guess, but there does seem to be a market is what im saying. Anyway, enoughbabbling.
You should check out the heli-hobby hornet upgrades, and also you should check out the hornetII up grades (and martins video section) at www.duzi.cz cause those are not cheap! There are also some british shoppes that have cnc parts but with the dollar falling against the euro they all seem spendy! I was thinking a redisigned one piece servo mount main body out of aluminum could be sweet but quite complex. There is another guy here on rcu that has machined an aluminum body for his 22d, tail box as well, i'll try to find that post.
Happy Hovering New Year!!!!!

EDIT-
heres the link to the other post:
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2331416/anchors_2331416/mpage_1/key_22d/anchor/tm.htm#2331416]22d update (home machined)[/link]

Hover Dude

i am really considering a direct drive tail. i have changed the settings on my gyro and it seems to be working (at least i think) and the tail gear seems fine too. For some reason though it is not producing anywhere enough thrust and the heli is yawing. i dont think changing the tail to direct drive would be that hard all it would require is a speed controller (which i have) and a motor. all i would have to do is plug the esc where the tail pitch servo was. it wouldnt even cost much. am i missing somthing, because this solution seems like a very easy way to solve the problem.
hover dude

swashplate

Good luck with that! I dont realy know if it would work, but i doubt it. A decent tail servo would be more likely to be helpful. Next would be a HH gyro and a good tail servo. But realy if it works out let us know! Any body else tried this?

Hover Dude

i managed to stabilize the heli. due to my lack of flying skills the heli hit the coner in the wall and now the reciever board is not working right. i took the case of and there is no damage that i can see but for some reason it is not working at all. where can i get a replacement? or maybe now is a great time to get separates? do i need a mixer for the heli. all i think i would need is a gyro, reciver and a speed controller. this really sux
hover dude

Hover Dude

one more thing. the hornet does not seem to use any mixing so i would not need a mixer right for my drangonfly22d

Hover Dude

I know i am going to sound stupid, but i am a newbie. what i earlier thought was a messed up mixer board turned out to be a broken servo. i have replaced the servo and the heli is working fine.