GWS PG 03 Gyro set up
03-24-2003, 06:52 AM
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GWS PG 03 Gyro set up
Could the "experts" here give advice on how best to set up the GWS gyro?
At present I have the Stock Mini Dragonfly with the FEDA mixer/esc and am using the GWS indoor Rx, Jamara servos, 2X1020 Kokams and the aformentioned gyro. I also have a payload of some home made training gear made out of 2mm carbon rod and ping-pong balls.
I guess my best hover time would be about ten seconds so far - heck I AM still learning, this being my first heli of any kind. Part of my trouble, I'm sure, is that as soon as the heli takes off it yaws about 45 degrees, nose left. I then apply rudder to keep it all "straight", whilst juggling the other stick to get it to hover in one place (yeah, right!
). This rudder input upsets my co - ordination a bit and sometimes I'm a bit late on the right stick and the heli gets away from me as a result. I'm sure that I could extend my hover times if the heli didn't yaw on take off, and I didn't have the distraction of keeping the tail in line - which is why I ask the question.
So, lads, how can the gyro be set up succesfully enough to keep the tail rock solid between take off and hover AND in flight?
Your input would be MOST welcome - believe me!
Thanks,
Clive.
At present I have the Stock Mini Dragonfly with the FEDA mixer/esc and am using the GWS indoor Rx, Jamara servos, 2X1020 Kokams and the aformentioned gyro. I also have a payload of some home made training gear made out of 2mm carbon rod and ping-pong balls.
I guess my best hover time would be about ten seconds so far - heck I AM still learning, this being my first heli of any kind. Part of my trouble, I'm sure, is that as soon as the heli takes off it yaws about 45 degrees, nose left. I then apply rudder to keep it all "straight", whilst juggling the other stick to get it to hover in one place (yeah, right!
). This rudder input upsets my co - ordination a bit and sometimes I'm a bit late on the right stick and the heli gets away from me as a result. I'm sure that I could extend my hover times if the heli didn't yaw on take off, and I didn't have the distraction of keeping the tail in line - which is why I ask the question. So, lads, how can the gyro be set up succesfully enough to keep the tail rock solid between take off and hover AND in flight?
Your input would be MOST welcome - believe me!
Thanks,
Clive.
03-24-2003, 12:25 PM
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GWS PG 03 Gyro set up
Clive,
What you are asking for is a "heading hold gyro" and what you have there (the PG-03) is a simpler "rate gyro". So I'm afraid you can't achieve what you want using the PG-03.
I fly a Corona helicopter and while I have a PG-03 I actually splashed the cash for a CSM HLG 200 heading lock gyro (about £60) because I wanted to remove one variable from the equation while learning to fly. The HLG200 does a great job of locking the tail and I'd highly recommend it.
I got mine from www.modelhelicopters.co.uk but you can also get them from www.skylinemodels.co.uk
Cliff
What you are asking for is a "heading hold gyro" and what you have there (the PG-03) is a simpler "rate gyro". So I'm afraid you can't achieve what you want using the PG-03.
I fly a Corona helicopter and while I have a PG-03 I actually splashed the cash for a CSM HLG 200 heading lock gyro (about £60) because I wanted to remove one variable from the equation while learning to fly. The HLG200 does a great job of locking the tail and I'd highly recommend it.
I got mine from www.modelhelicopters.co.uk but you can also get them from www.skylinemodels.co.uk
Cliff
03-24-2003, 01:27 PM
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GWS PG 03 Gyro set up
Muchas Gracias Cliff.
OK, it looks like I'll have to get a HH Gyro for Xmas!
Can anyone explain in plain English (not technospeak) how a rate gyro helps? Also what does the gain pot do?
I'm not that daft, it's just that I would like to tap into anyone's knowledge who has practical experience of these things. I guess it would be valuable to others coming here for information too.
Just to give praise where it's due, the Mini Dragonfly is my first heli of any kind and it's robustness really surprises me, given the abuse that I am hurling at it. To date only one main blade has broken - new ones bought, The tailskid broke at its joint with the boom - replaced with a wire skid and two of the landing legs broke close to where they go through the main body - fixed with piano wire extensions.
Cheap flying...well kinda flying
Clive.
OK, it looks like I'll have to get a HH Gyro for Xmas!
Can anyone explain in plain English (not technospeak) how a rate gyro helps? Also what does the gain pot do?
I'm not that daft, it's just that I would like to tap into anyone's knowledge who has practical experience of these things. I guess it would be valuable to others coming here for information too.
Just to give praise where it's due, the Mini Dragonfly is my first heli of any kind and it's robustness really surprises me, given the abuse that I am hurling at it. To date only one main blade has broken - new ones bought, The tailskid broke at its joint with the boom - replaced with a wire skid and two of the landing legs broke close to where they go through the main body - fixed with piano wire extensions.
Cheap flying...well kinda flying
Clive.
03-24-2003, 02:14 PM
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GWS PG 03 Gyro set up
Hi,
The Feda comes with this GWS PG-03 and it shouldn't yaw after take off if it is set up correctly.
Please go here http://www.gws.com.tw/english/service/service.htm. On this page you find page 1 and 2 of the Gyro manual.
This should help you.
Furthermore, in case you need this, we sell the Feda crash guard and a crash kit. We have a special offer for the crash kit (free worldwide shipping). Check here: Amersfoort Airport.
Good luck!
Kind regards,
Jan-Dirk Schuitemaker
The Netherlands
The Feda comes with this GWS PG-03 and it shouldn't yaw after take off if it is set up correctly.
Please go here http://www.gws.com.tw/english/service/service.htm. On this page you find page 1 and 2 of the Gyro manual.
This should help you.
Furthermore, in case you need this, we sell the Feda crash guard and a crash kit. We have a special offer for the crash kit (free worldwide shipping). Check here: Amersfoort Airport.
Good luck!
Kind regards,
Jan-Dirk Schuitemaker
The Netherlands
03-24-2003, 03:07 PM
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GWS PG 03 Gyro set up
I have a PG-03 in my Hornet. Eventually you will learn that a very slight amount of right rudder on take off will keep the heli on heading. You'll not even notice yourself doing it.
In the meantime, why not just point the heli 45 degrees to the right to staret with? Also, avoid sudden throttle-collective movements to the extent possible. Spool up to the point that the heli is light on the skids. At this point, correct the heli's heading while it is still sitting on the ground. Point it a bit nose right. Then, proceed to lift off. If you find that the heli ends up too far nose left, then point it right a bit more in the beginning.
To answer your questions:
1. A rate gyro simply provides opposite rudder input whenever it senses yaw. Thus, at the end of a piroette, the gyro will stop the tail spinning once you let the rudder stick go neutral. However, if the rudder is not trimmed, the tail will then begin to slowly drift. Similarly, if you raise the throttle-collective stick, you will see the heli yaw left from the increased torque. One you become more experienced, you will be able to counteract this with revo mix. A rate gyro is definitely helpful to have because it tends to stop the tail's movement.
2. The gain pot set the gyro's sensitivity. Setting the gain to high will cause the tail to "wag," i.e., oscillate to-and-fro in the hover. Too low a setting will will cause the gyro to be ineffective at correcting for yaw (like the gyro isn't there). You want the gain set just below the point that causes "wag". You probably won't bne competent to adjust the gyro gain until you can keep the heli in a steady hover. Until then, you can achieve a rough setting by running the heli up in your hand (holding it by the skids, above "face level" :stupid: ). Run up to hovering throttle and observe what the tail is doing. It shouldn't be pulling in either direction of yaw. Adjust rudder neutral on your tx until it seems about right. Then increase the gyro gain until you feel wag. Reduce it about 10-15% and start flying. A good initial setting on the Hornet is about 40%, but your milage may vary.
HH gyros are great and will solve all yaw problems, but there's something to be said for learning to fly the tail. I started off nitro with a 401 HH gyro. As a result, I had to learn to fly the tail for the first time on my Hornet. It's made me a much better pilot. Eventually I'll put a GY240 in my Hornet, and then I'll probably forget everything I've learned abbout flying the tail.
In the meantime, why not just point the heli 45 degrees to the right to staret with? Also, avoid sudden throttle-collective movements to the extent possible. Spool up to the point that the heli is light on the skids. At this point, correct the heli's heading while it is still sitting on the ground. Point it a bit nose right. Then, proceed to lift off. If you find that the heli ends up too far nose left, then point it right a bit more in the beginning.
To answer your questions:
1. A rate gyro simply provides opposite rudder input whenever it senses yaw. Thus, at the end of a piroette, the gyro will stop the tail spinning once you let the rudder stick go neutral. However, if the rudder is not trimmed, the tail will then begin to slowly drift. Similarly, if you raise the throttle-collective stick, you will see the heli yaw left from the increased torque. One you become more experienced, you will be able to counteract this with revo mix. A rate gyro is definitely helpful to have because it tends to stop the tail's movement.
2. The gain pot set the gyro's sensitivity. Setting the gain to high will cause the tail to "wag," i.e., oscillate to-and-fro in the hover. Too low a setting will will cause the gyro to be ineffective at correcting for yaw (like the gyro isn't there). You want the gain set just below the point that causes "wag". You probably won't bne competent to adjust the gyro gain until you can keep the heli in a steady hover. Until then, you can achieve a rough setting by running the heli up in your hand (holding it by the skids, above "face level" :stupid: ). Run up to hovering throttle and observe what the tail is doing. It shouldn't be pulling in either direction of yaw. Adjust rudder neutral on your tx until it seems about right. Then increase the gyro gain until you feel wag. Reduce it about 10-15% and start flying. A good initial setting on the Hornet is about 40%, but your milage may vary.
HH gyros are great and will solve all yaw problems, but there's something to be said for learning to fly the tail. I started off nitro with a 401 HH gyro. As a result, I had to learn to fly the tail for the first time on my Hornet. It's made me a much better pilot. Eventually I'll put a GY240 in my Hornet, and then I'll probably forget everything I've learned abbout flying the tail.
03-25-2003, 06:10 AM
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Thanks!
JanDirks,
Thank you for the links. I'll visit them later.
Adam - "Helicopterhead",
Great explaination - got myself a coffee and read it a couple of times until It sunk in. Thanks for your time and effort.
Looks like the forum contributors came up trumps yet again! :thumbup:
Clive.
Thank you for the links. I'll visit them later.
Adam - "Helicopterhead",
Great explaination - got myself a coffee and read it a couple of times until It sunk in. Thanks for your time and effort.
Looks like the forum contributors came up trumps yet again! :thumbup:
Clive.
03-25-2003, 09:56 PM
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Cliff,
You said you fly a Corona. Did you get that in the UK? If so, where from (if you don't mind me asking)? I would quite like one but I've only seen them on US sites and I don't want to get stung by import duty like I was with my Skylark.
Cheers,
Carl
You said you fly a Corona. Did you get that in the UK? If so, where from (if you don't mind me asking)? I would quite like one but I've only seen them on US sites and I don't want to get stung by import duty like I was with my Skylark.
Cheers,
Carl
03-26-2003, 02:05 PM
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Carl,
Sad to say but the nearest place to the UK to get a Corona is actually Austria. At least it's in the EU so there's no import duty but their prices (http://modellbau.burndorfer.at/) are MUCH higher than the US prices - like Euro 280 for the basic kit (in the US this is $199, while E280 comes out at about $298 or £190).
That's why I got my Corona while I was visiting the States (Vegas in fact). I paid $340 for the kit that includes the motor/controller and three HS-81 servos). In fact most people say that it's best to get just the bare kit for $170 from www.roffeetvhobby.com in the States and then added a Kyosho Atomic Force motor and some 35A controller separately (or brushless if money is no object).
It's almost unbelievable that there is this BRILLIANT helicopter kit available and no importer/distributor/retailer in the UK has spotted it yet!
Cliff
Sad to say but the nearest place to the UK to get a Corona is actually Austria. At least it's in the EU so there's no import duty but their prices (http://modellbau.burndorfer.at/) are MUCH higher than the US prices - like Euro 280 for the basic kit (in the US this is $199, while E280 comes out at about $298 or £190).
That's why I got my Corona while I was visiting the States (Vegas in fact). I paid $340 for the kit that includes the motor/controller and three HS-81 servos). In fact most people say that it's best to get just the bare kit for $170 from www.roffeetvhobby.com in the States and then added a Kyosho Atomic Force motor and some 35A controller separately (or brushless if money is no object).
It's almost unbelievable that there is this BRILLIANT helicopter kit available and no importer/distributor/retailer in the UK has spotted it yet!
Cliff
03-26-2003, 03:04 PM
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You may want to try and fabricate or purchase a training stand that allows the helicopter to freely pivot on center. This will allow you to trim your tail rotor settings and adjust the gyro gain without lifting off.
The one I used had 2 nylon discs drilled through the center and were joined with a nylon bolt for the pivot. The lower disc was drilled for 5 carbon fiber arrow shafts with practice golf balls on the ends. The upper disc had 4 short CF arrow shafts for attaching to the skids with tie wraps. Very simple. Sorry, it was loaned to someone, who loaned it to someone else, etc., so I don't have any pics.
You definitely don't need a Heading gyro to fly. Save this purchase until you have advanced to the point of doing aerobatics. As HelicopterHead mentioned, you'll be a better flyer if you know what to do with the tail instead of relying on the HH gyro.
The one I used had 2 nylon discs drilled through the center and were joined with a nylon bolt for the pivot. The lower disc was drilled for 5 carbon fiber arrow shafts with practice golf balls on the ends. The upper disc had 4 short CF arrow shafts for attaching to the skids with tie wraps. Very simple. Sorry, it was loaned to someone, who loaned it to someone else, etc., so I don't have any pics.
You definitely don't need a Heading gyro to fly. Save this purchase until you have advanced to the point of doing aerobatics. As HelicopterHead mentioned, you'll be a better flyer if you know what to do with the tail instead of relying on the HH gyro.
03-26-2003, 05:59 PM
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Cliff,
Bah, it looks like I'll have to wait for someone to sell their corona on ebay or something then
I'll have to get in touch with Midland Helicopters (www.modelhelicopters.co.uk) to see if they're aware of its existance.
Cheers,
Carl
Bah, it looks like I'll have to wait for someone to sell their corona on ebay or something then
I'll have to get in touch with Midland Helicopters (www.modelhelicopters.co.uk) to see if they're aware of its existance.Cheers,
Carl
03-27-2003, 09:28 AM
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Hi,
The Corona doesn't get very good talk here in The Netherlands, and it seems not to be availble here too! A better try should be the Eco-8!
Regards,
Jan-Dirk
The Corona doesn't get very good talk here in The Netherlands, and it seems not to be availble here too! A better try should be the Eco-8!
Regards,
Jan-Dirk
03-27-2003, 10:20 AM
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Litemachines also has distributors in Germany and Australia - maybe you have some friend or relative down under that could get it for you? I got my LMH from Modellbau Burndorfer, and while their prices may not be competitive compared to the US, their customer service is great.
(I paid € 580,- for a 121 w/ brushless Kontronik motor, speed controller, 3 servos and piezo gyro.)
(I paid € 580,- for a 121 w/ brushless Kontronik motor, speed controller, 3 servos and piezo gyro.)
03-27-2003, 05:48 PM
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Jandirk,
Funnily enough, I've been thinking about getting an Eco-8. I figure I'm going to get one more electric heli and then that'll probably do me (until the next one of course)
Aracan,
I do have relatives down under, but I haven't seen them in about 15 years or so and I wouldn't know how to get in touch with them either
Cheers,
Carl
Funnily enough, I've been thinking about getting an Eco-8. I figure I'm going to get one more electric heli and then that'll probably do me (until the next one of course)
Aracan,
I do have relatives down under, but I haven't seen them in about 15 years or so and I wouldn't know how to get in touch with them either
Cheers,
Carl
