CaptainRandy

Thanks, I thought thatv was the case, but I inquired to someone on ebay if the plane had rudder control and they said YES, aslo said it had steerable nose gear.
I would rather have aielerons than rudder anyway.
Thanks for your reply. Randy

dbl8ts

Are you sure they were talking about the GWS A-10? I know several modelers have stated they would try to modify the plane to get rudder control in addition to the ailerons. However, to date, I have not read where anyone has actually done it or succeeded with the GWS version.

The GWS A-10 does have a steerable nose gear. However, most modelers have gone without it. Some actually incorporated the steering servo in their planes, but took the landing gears and servo out to aid in balancing (less weight). Others have left the steering in, but report that as the model gains speed on takeoff, steering is almost nil. The same after touchdown until the model slows considerably. Whatever you do, DO NOT get the EDF-50 version. There are more than enough horror stories in these threads about that version. Instead, get the EDF-55 version in 150, 300 or 300H. These versions incorporate 280, 350 and 370 class motors in the fan units.

Good luck!

CaptainRandy

Yes, I was sure about the GWS A-10, but I think the guy was just saying that it had rudders, he failed to say they were non functional. He did say that it had steerable nose gear, which I had not read anywhere, until I saw it in the assembly instructions on the GWS site. Sure wish I could print out those instructions, so I could read them over good before I buy.

You mentioned all the horror stories about the 50 version. I guess it is too under powered.
I will definitely order the newer 55, but what does that stand for?????

You also mention the different size motors 150 300 or 300H (280 350 370) these are the motor sizes correct ???

I didn't see any mention of these different sizes on the GWS site, who sells them? or where did you hear about them in different sizes???

I would assume that the battery packs would also have to change with the larger motors.

Which A-10 are you flying?

Thanks again, Capt. Randy

dbl8ts

[quote]ORIGINAL: CaptainRandy

Sure wish I could print out those instructions, so I could read them over good before I buy.

Do not despair. You can print the entire assembly manual (I di before ordering). Because I already have one, I have not checked the site recently to see if the EDF-55 insert is included, but it will not matter. The assembly instructions are the same, except the insert shows an area on the pylon where you have to remove some foam. The insert also gives instructions in case you would prefer to convert the unit to EDP (propellers). When you get the kit, trial fit the fan into the nacelle halves and press the assembly onto the pylons. The fan unit will leave a dimple to mark where you need to remove the foam. Don't get over zealous with the cut, repeat the trial fit to determine the depth. (Also, put two bamboo skewers throug the pylon from one side through the other then trim and glue in place; this gives strength and helps to prevent the nacelles from popping off during a landing). GWS failed to give this crucial measurement, but gives mm depths and lengths for all other cuts you need to make on the model. Go to the GWS site. www.gws.com.tw/english/english.htm and select "Manual." Once there, select the A-10. As you select the pages, you must print them one by one (sorry), but it will give you the opportunity to print front and back without wasting paper.

You mentioned all the horror stories about the 50 version. I guess it is too under powered. I will definitely order the newer 55, but what does that stand for?????

The EDF-50, EDF-55, EDF-64, EDF-75, et al stands for the size of the fan unit in mm.

You also mention the different size motors 150 300 or 300H (280 350 370) these are the motor sizes correct ???

Correct

I didn't see any mention of these different sizes on the GWS site, who sells them? or where did you hear about them in different sizes???

While at the GWS website, select products at the top of the page. From there, you will get a list of all of the GWS products. To investigate the fan units, select the EDF product line. There you will find all of the fan units with descriptions of the motors. However, the 300H is not well defined but lists the 150 (280) and the 300H (300, 350 or 370 depending on kit manufacturing date). To see the motor sizes, use your back button then select motors.

I would assume that the battery packs would also have to change with the larger motors.

Yes. GWS also has radios, ESCs, servos and batteries. Most modelers in the forums use other batteries, KANS, Kokams, Tanics, Thunders, etc.

Which A-10 are you flying?

Okay, here's the kicker.[sm=spinnyeyes.gif] Like you, I spent time asking question before buying. I spent two months on the Internet investigating the GWS A-10, the RC Group, Ezone and RC Universe forums. I had already ordered the EDF-50, but returned it the day it arrived after reading all of the negative posts while waiting for it to arrive. I then ordered the EDF-55 300H because it had the largest power unit which should get rid of the "underpowered" complaint somewhat. I received the 300H about two weeks ago. Everything is finished save the touch up painting where I sanded, installing the nacelles (tonights project - I just received the heat sinks today) and installing the radio gear. I have been trying to get some idea of which Li-Po batteries will work in this stock set up, but no one seems to have a good suggestion that will not possibly fry the motors, the ESC or ruin the batteries. (Most have made engine substitutions and/or used all kinds of batteries. I am new to electrics, so I want my first experiences to be positive.) Based on what I have read, I believe I will go with a 2S2P 1500 to 2100 mah Li-Po pack this weekend. At that time I will decide whether or not the landing gears stay.

I hope this helps.

CaptainRandy

dbl8ts,
Wow, are you kidding? Does this help is an under-statement.
You have given me more info than I was able to find after many hours searching the internet and forums. There sure is plenty to learn when starting out in electrics. I too, don't want to make too many costly mistakes.
I ask a lot of questions at my club flying field also.
Thanks for the great tip on printing out the instructions also, I will do that right now.
I just received a plane by SIG, it is a Bristol Scout that I was a bit disappointed with.
It wasn't very expensive but the quality I thought was very very cheap. I will build it anyway and just fly in in front of my house. I don't think I would even bring it to the club field.
The A-10 looks like something I really want to fly, and I have seen one fly at an electric fun-fly, so at least I have some idea of what it looks like before hand. I would never order a plane sight unseen again, unless highly recommended by others.
Thanks again for all your time in responding to my questions, I will try to keep up on what's going on with these A-10's so that if any new improvements come along before I order, I will be right on top of it.
I get a little impatient when I think I want something, so it probably won't be too long before I order one. Maybe it will take the sting out of my last mistake with that Bristol Scout.
You have really helped a lot.
Capt. Randy

dbl8ts

Dear Captain Randy:

No problem. I am a believer in sharing information in this sport with ours. My 8-10 year hiatus was because people whom others shared with and educated, could not be bothered helping others who are just as they once were - confused and not understanding the ins and outs of new technology.[:@]

I am not familiar with the plane you are working on, but I do have a suggestion. Before flying my A-10, I will brush up on my skills with a nice little park flyer. It is the Hobby Lobby Mini Telemaster ($29.90 plus shipping). It flies with a brushless 280 class motor, brushless Jeti 18 3P ESC, rudder and elevator control with steerable tail wheel. I have not yet decided on the batteries (probably something in the 1100 mah range). It is a build from balsa and plywood, and goes together very easily. It is also capable of a few tricks unlike some of the smaller wire trainers on the market. I am a Telemaster fan from way back. In fact, I have a 40 sized (Telemaster 66) fuselage completed over four years ago, but had to stop building when I moved from NE to IA (condo with a workshop to an apartment). I moved to KC in 1999 following major surgery and had to stop working. In December, I decided to reenter the hobby after setting up my workshop in the basement of the home we had built.

Again, I am glad I could help with what I have learned in the past two months. Let me know how your A-10 turns out when she's done. Try a search for A-10 EDF-55 300H at: www.rcgroup.com/forums/. There and here at RC Universe are where I learned a few things in between all the modifications ([:'(]) others are making that I do not understand and/or cannot see financially ()for an $82.00 plane as flimsey as the GWS A-10 airframe.

Blue skies and fair winds my friend!

CaptainRandy

Hi dbl8ts,
I too have not done any building in about 10 years, Had to give it up as there was no help in the area and my buddy put 5 planes back into kit form in a matters of minutes. That was after spending many months building. He got discouraged to say the least. I just sold my three planes, and only flew one of them, Kind of sad.

Anyway, I am happy to be back at it again. I do have a Slope Diver ( Accitipter Badius ) glider/plane that I bought as my first plane. It is really pretty good little trainer and I have had good luck flying it the very first time. I must say that I have practiced quite a bit on the Great Planes trainer program for the computer. That really helped a lot.

The Slope Diver had the wrong kind of radio equipment (mode 1) so I bought a new Futaba 4 channel and it works great. Plane only has rudder elevator and speed, but flies great.

I have taken it to my club field a couple of times. I have to show them 3 take offs and landing in a row on two different days, to get my wings to fly solo at the field.

I don't mind as I would't want anyone fling near me that really didin't have control.

I also love to help others and one day I will be in a better position to do just that.
These forums are really great for gathering info, both pro & con.

If you lived closer to Ga. you should try to attend the Southeast Electric Flight Festival
June 17-20 in Americus Ga. My wife and I are going to drive our RV and be there for four days.

We just came back from Top Gun in Lakeland , Florida.

Keep em up,
Randy

RCMustang

Guys,

There is only one way to fly the GWS A-10 and that's brushless. http://www.e-flightline.com sells a brushless upgrade for the A-10 that is unbeatable. I have one. Yep, it's expensive, but it buys you serious performance! Imagine doing repeated Cuban 8s with the GWS A-10. Yep, I can. I saw above a few folks asking what brushless buys. Basically you get power, efficency, and the motors basically don't wear out. You get that by paying about $50 per motor and by buying a $50 speed control for each motor. That's right, you can't combine two brushless on one controller (reliably). That's because brushless motors use a feedback control system that must be tuned to each motor in order to maintain maximum efficiency.

I fly mine with a 3S Tanic 2200 back and get about 10 minutes of flight time. Speed is about 40+ mph and vertical is not a problem. I would definitely not say it is unlimited or even near that, but if I want to climb, it's not a problem! My fans are based on the Himax 4100-3600 brushless motors with Phoenix 10 brushless controllers. I highly recommend the setup. Believe me, I know what the stock A-10 with EDF 50 fans flies like. It's great to look at, but leaves alot to be desired when it comes to a performance envelope. I flew mine that way for a year before I broke down and upgraded. You will not regret it.

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

Ok I cant take credit for this - the guys at the hobby shop did it first .
Look at the front bottom fuse . Cut out the bottom forward section of the fuse exactly at the panle lines. This will open a compartmnet forward of the original battery pack .Its all hollow in there. THis is where you will put your 3 cell 11.1volt Lipos(thunder power $79 .They fit perfact and you wont need weight . Your speed control is now moved forward and the connection is now made in the original battery compartment . I switched to Maxx Products wheels, used plastic straws for struct covers , and just like in my first A-10 I glued the steering wheel and lost the steering servo that was useless . yes it will vier but just a liitle on take-off .
Now for the good news , you will get at least 2 -consecutive 10 min flights on one charge at med throtle , you have to stop around 10 because it will get got . I have gotten 4 - 6 miniutes flights .
I would have nevr bought another one based on the first A-10 -that was underpowered , pitch sencitive , and in my opionion a piece of crap. My opion on GWS in general , is tobuy every plane with no power system and add your own .THey are all under powered .
Also go to Michales craft stores , go to foam section , buy foan they use for flowers -its gray and or green .This stuff can be standed easire then premium balsa and makes great parts for these planes , like nose cones , pilots , ect .Its $4.00 bucks for more then you will ever need.

ericthetree

My Feedback: (11)

I just put mabuchi rs36 motors in my A 10, anyone have knowledge of what kind of speed controller I will need, these motors put out great thrust using twin blade props that I cut down. I want to use Li-Poly batteries to save wt. . any help is appreciated as I am new to electric planes.

Helipro

Heres what im running in my A-10 ED55 300

480E 15 amp Speed Controller
9 Cell AAA 800 Mah NI MH

Flight time is around 7 to 8 minutes
Always Oil My Motors after every Flight.

15 flights and still running hard.

Heres the video to show you the performance
http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1136925/i/pics/A-10.wmv

Thanks,
Jeff

dbl8ts

Hot Landing!!!!!!!

I enjoyed the video. Can you tell us more about your set up; i.e., are those stock engines, did you use heat sinks, did you use a nose wheel servo - if so, was it effective, CG location, throttle settings used, how do you get at your motors to oil them? Additionally, have you done any testing before hand to determine amps drawn and voltage?

I am curious, because I am about to buy my batteries and I was set to buy Li-Poly. Did you have to carve out any foam to get the nine cells in the battery area/nose? Did you build the pack yourself? I could not tell from the video, but have you tried loops or rolls with your A-10?

If yours is indeed a stock set up, it is the first video I can recall of such, and the plane flies well with the set up described.

Again, nice flying aircraft! Good piloting job (although daring) on the landing (I thought sure you would hit that building or the tree beside it).

Helipro

I had to cut some foam out of the inside of the battery compartment.
The batteries where built buy a friend of mine that owns a Battery Store
Im using a Trinity Oil Tube to oil the bushings in the motors from the rear of the pod.
This is Stock no mods made it fly the way it does my CG is at 2 inchs from the leading edge of the wings.
I dont have a scale to weight it. When i do i will post the weight.

The A-10 has a nose wheel in the front and im using 3 servos total.
The Duct Fans are Stock 55's with no heat sinks.
Stearing kinda sticks on take off just have to line it up and give it full throttle.
I lost the front wheel on landing and was trying to keep the nose up from scraping the ground.
I also found out that i Did'nt have the collar on tight enough and the wheel spun off on landing.

Something that helps with the motors is breakin them in for 4 hours with 2 D cell batteries i do that with all my electric stuff.
If you take care of your motors they will last awile with out any problems i also fly electric helicopter, Boats, Cars, Trucks.

If you would like any more information just let me know. I also fly the new GWS Spit Fighter with the same batteries and she fly perfect.


Thanks,
Jeff

dbl8ts

This may sound strange to you, but remember, I am new to electrics. Using your break-in method, do you hook the motors to the batteries and allow them to run continuously, or do you break it down to X number of minute runs until you have a total of four hours on the motors? I started running mine yesterday with a single "C" cell I had laying around, but I could not keep them running without sitting and holding the contacts to the batteries. This morning, I went to Radio Shack and purchased a double "C" cell holder and ran the motors continuously for about twenty-five minutes. It is odd how many times the motor pitch changed during the twenty-five minute run. I will run them again tomorrow morning when I have more time to spend at my work bench.

Again, thanks for the information!

Helipro

I let them run 4 hours straight and im oiling the bushings about every 1 to 2 hours.
Each motor should be broken in sepreate not together.
I use D cell battereies because they have a higher discharge rate.

Thanks,
Jeff

Newmanator

I have had over 30 flights now with my A-10. 3s2p 11.2 Thunder. No probs with the motors, I do manage the throttle though.

What a joy to fly!

antomo

just over 30 flights with 3 cell Lipoly 1500 and one of the motor failed.
The problem was that the back brass "bearing" (i do not know the correct word) destroyed.
Possible if i had put a drop of oil every few flights.......

viper21

My Feedback: (9)

Has anyone considered going with a pair of Vasa 55 carbon fiber fans and a pair of Himaxx 2025-4100 and a TP 3S2P 4200 pack and I have a Kontronik 3SL-40-6-12 BEC that will run both motors and has a BEC so it will save tje weight and I have heard the Himaxx's are really good ducted fan motors. I am thinking that the Vasa fans would really make a difference>
Viper

E*nealio

My Feedback: (10)

check out www.e-flighline.com/ and loook at their a-10 vids and that will answer every question!!!

viper21

My Feedback: (9)

E*nealio, I did exactly that on Tuesday and ordered an A10 with their EDF 55's and Himax 2025-3600 brushless motors. I bought the glider version since its white and I am airbrushing mine anyway, not sure which color scheme yet maybe green and tan camo. Anyway I got excellent customer service from Jeff and his dad. Jet went out of his way to save me some money by selling me the glider version and throwing in the landing gear for free and a set of real wheels the white rimmed foam tire wheels. I cant wait to fly the little jet I am planning to fly it off the local high school track. I am using one TP 3S 2100 Lipo of which I have a couple and some 10 cell Hecell packs in between Lipo flights. And a single Kontroniks 3-SlB-40 BEC ESC too control both motors should work well.
Viper

E*nealio

My Feedback: (10)

one controller on 2 brushless motors? I always thought that would through of the motors and make one go and the other jitter and not work and end up frying up the esc!!!! If you have a problem I would go with two pheonix 10's. I run a pheonix 25 and its a must with li-po b/c you dont want to go below 3volts per cell really......Its a little less really but to be on the safe side i went with a 9 v cutoff on my TP 3s 2100!! Good luck with the A-10. I always get glider versions and put a little thicker landing gear on em. Those wheels are great and i got my stuff from e-flightline in less than a week. hope you have fun with the Hog!

viper21

My Feedback: (9)

The Kontroniks 3-SLB-40-6-18 ESC can run two motors and it works well most Kontroniks ESC's will run two brushless motors. I have another use for it though so I think that I am going to go ahead and buy two Phoenix 10's I should have bought them with the plane from Jeff.
What size wire did you use for your landing gear and will I need to drill out my wheels for it. I have the white plastic and foam wheels.
Thanks Viper

LDM

My Feedback: (15)

well I am trying mine this weekend with the stock 55s and a 21oo lipo . I have the battery as far forard in a specail compartmnt in the nose -access via magnets on bootom of fuse .Hope she is better then the first version , GWS has my money for 2 A10s and now the Lipo batter at $71.00 . I can only hope she is somewhat of a flyer !

viper21

My Feedback: (9)

Go to this website and scroll down to the A10 and right click on the Video and you see the A10 combo I have two Himax 2025-3600's in EDF 55 fans and twin Phoenix 10's and one 3S TP 2100 lipo. Its an awesome combo and I cant wait to fly mine with landing gear and a steerable nose wheel. http://www.jims-rc-flight.com/index.html
Joe

E*nealio

My Feedback: (10)

What size wire did you use for your landing gear and will I need to drill out my wheels for it. I have the white plastic and foam wheels.
Thanks Viper


I dont have the size on the top of my head and cant even remember what size they were. They are installed on teh planes and loock to be 2x or a little smaller than 2x the size of the gws wire...........They gws is way to flimsy, They have them so thin b/c the people who dont have brushless will have a lot of weight in landing gear to get up in the air. My guess is 1.5mm wire but that is a rough guess. Good luck with the hog[quote]ORIGINAL: viper21