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need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

Old 09-16-2008, 09:39 PM
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raulcroes
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Default need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

Hello electric flight Gurus,

I'm interested in getting into electric flight, but I know very, very little about the subject. What I do know is this;
- the model would be a U CAN DO 3D (.46 size)
- and the battery would have to be LiFePo (A123).
- flight time; 8 to 10 minutes.
- I would like to be able to do basic aerobatics at slow to moderate speeds.

I don't have the slightest idea what size brushless outrunner motor, ESC, charger and/or propeller to use.
I also know that I will be dissuaded to use LiFePo, those arguments are also welcome as long they are backed by sound knowledge and experience. I'm not one of those brand name types although I buy most of my RC stuff from Tower hobbies.
Your suggestions will be highly appreciated.

Regards,

Raul G. Croes[8D]
Old 09-17-2008, 11:51 AM
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

Raul,
Hi, well first off I'd reccomend you getting access to a calc program like MotoCalc or one of the others out there. Will allow you to play with different combos of props/motors/ esc's/ batteries/ and airframes.

But anyhow. As it's a 46 class, you could look at name brand motors like EFlite, they now classify their motors by size. Or look at stuff like HTX from China, normally half to 1/3 the price of the name brands, and they are really good motors.

Let me get ahold of my bud Ken, aka "blisters" , he's a whizz at this kind of stuff, and can probably rattle off everything you'll need, off the top of his head.

As for the 123's, all I can tell you is what I've seen. I had a friend who had the Hangar9 Mustang (similar size to yours) powered by them, and I don't think he got more then 5 min out of his packs.

And I didn't like at all the cut off. At least on his, there was really no warning, like a lipo gives, on his the prop just stopped. Many, many dead stick landings.

But that's just my view.

One last thing, on my stuff, If it calls for a 46 I tend to jump it up one size, like to a 60.
I look at it as the motor doesn't have to work as hard to fly the plane, and you always have that little bit extra, just in case.
Old 09-17-2008, 12:39 PM
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Loubud
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

I'm with Glacier on this. Hobby Lobby has motor/engine conversion charts also. Once you know what motors are recommended for your plane, you can use those specifications to seek out other motors.
I also hold the A123's suspect. There is a thread on the subject. I haven't read it as I have no intention of using them. The reason is that, like Glacier stated, is the lack of warning when the 123's run out of power. The thread may know of a remedy but like I said, I haven't read it. When the power is gone, so is control of your plane.

Good luck.
Lou
Old 09-17-2008, 01:26 PM
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raulcroes
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

Thanks for chiming in guys,

Well that cutting off without a warning thing is something to consider. As I've said, I know very little (instead of just saying I don't know squat) about the subject. I just marvel at people that can just pull-out the spec's off the top of thier heads. amazing! Glacier, the HTX you are reffering too, is it the Hextronic motors that Hobby City sells? Can you suggest what brand of ESC would be a good value? I've seen lipo pack of all sorts but don't have a clue what is good and what not. I'm not one of those brand name or nothing type of people. I just want to get value for my money (aka cheap guy) Being a devorced father of two, who thankfully live with me, and paying a morgage for a house I don't live in does weigh heavilly on my wallet. So I have to be carefull of how I spend the green stuff. what I really like to know is how one goes about setting up a ESC. do you have to program it as to how many cell you'll be using and what type of battery??? where can I access this kind of information. Is there a tutorial somewhere??? I thank you very much for giving me info on this subject.

Regards,

Raul[8D]
Old 09-17-2008, 01:41 PM
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Loubud
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

Raul,
Congrats for getting your kids to be with you. The other part sux.
Ken, AKA Blisters, AKA Kate (by me) had a tight budget a while back and became a cheap parts tester of unknown brands and web sites. His discoveries has helped a gazillion of us get more bang for the buck.
I do my best to take his advice with only one small exception-lipos. I'm brand loyal in that area and pay dearly for it. On the bright side, Kate has figured out how to power 12 pound planes for a third of what I would have paid not knowing him. There are also others who spent time and money trying off brand electronics and have found exceptional success.
I have found good success with esc's from WWW.Lightflight.com. Dirt cheap. Hobby City has dirt cheap esc's also. These are basic esc's and do need to be programmed but it's simple. Hobby City has a programming card for the computer and makes life very simple.
Keep asking questions.
Lou
Old 09-17-2008, 03:25 PM
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raulcroes
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

Thanks Lou,

It sure helps having knowledgable people giving one advice. I saw a thread for the electrifly arf and I thought, if this get much more complicated I'll just buy that and start from there. The problem we have here is that it is very windy with strong wind gusts. But I have a feeling you guys will put me on the right path.

thanks again.
Raul [8D]
Old 09-17-2008, 03:33 PM
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

Raul,
We have a guy that has bought enough planes to start his own Hobby Shop and others that have bought other planes. Here's the link to where we hang out.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_63...tm.htm#7963983

Be certain to read Post 1, Page 1 first so you can see what the thread is all about. It helps to understand why we are all over the map.[8D]

Ask any and all questions there. Including planes and what you need to get from point A to point B. Lots of real smart guys there. Ages range from 15 years old to just old.

Consider this a personal invite.
Old 09-17-2008, 05:49 PM
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

Raul, I'll work out a decent set-up for you. But like Brad, said, I would stay as far away from the A123 LIFE cells as I could, especially if you plan on doing the occasional 3-D manuever. I crashed a plane because of those cells, no warning whatsoever on the voltage drop. They can handle amps really well and maintain a solid voltage through the flight, but when the packs are empty, that's it, there is no noticeable decrease in performance, it's just dead. Also they have the major disadvantage of being HEAVY. I had a 6 cell 123 pack, 2300 mah. That has the equivalent voltage of a 5 cell li-po, & the weight of the pack was the same as a 4100 mah 5 cell pack. Also, setting up the cut-off voltage on the ESC is a pain, if you can find an ESC that is freindly to those packs & chargers were hard to find at first but they're becoming more common.

SO, now with that in mind, I'll play with some numbers.
Old 09-17-2008, 06:30 PM
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raulcroes
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

Thanks guys,

You make me feel welcome. I'm glad that I may join your tread (hang out place), thanks for the invite.

ktaylor

I've heard that you are "the Master" so I won't argue with success. Thank you for taking the time to configure a set-up for me, much appreciated. I wouldn't want to try to reinvent the wheel so your suggestions will be followed to the T.


Raul[8D]

P.S. (if you notice I have a lot of grammar errors, pls. excuse me since English is not my language).
Old 09-17-2008, 07:14 PM
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ktaylor
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

Not really the master, I've just experimented enough that I sort of know what works.

ok, so going off of Tower hobbies, the plane weighs in at 5lbs, to 5 lbs 10 ounces depending upon your set-up. So we'll aim for 6 lbs of static thrust or more. And since you're not looking for speed that helps.

The HXT motors from Hobby City really give you a lot of bag for the buck. I have 5 of them, had 6, and only managed to destroy one of them. That one died due to the ESC getting wet & cooking the motor as it died. One of them I gave to Brad for his 60 sized Sopwith camel since he kept having no luck with the E-flite motor. That motor had been through 5 or 6 crashes & still ran great, it even went head on into a tree. They've changed the name of the motors from Hextronic to Turnigy now though. You can also get the motors through Nitroplanes, remarketed as Alpha Motors and save on shipping time from Hong Kong.

6 cell li-po power option. Fully charged that's 25.2 volts, nominal voltage is 22.2 volts. Since it's a .46 sized plane, we'll go with the [link=http://www.nitroplanes.com/mo466brmo.html]MonsterPower 46 (670kv) Brushless Motor[/link]

Put a 12x6 APC prop on it, it will give you about 8 lbs of static thrust, (more than enough for hover), pulling 55 amps. On 6 cell that's 1100 watts at full throttle. Pitchspeed is 67 mph.

I'd use 2 of these battery packs, http://64.33.154.92/blackdogrc/lipo3...ABF40003s1p20c I have some of them in 3 cell and 5 cell. I've put a fair amount of abuse on the 5 cell packs, & am very pleased with them, the 3 cell packs are still new. Devaun (the shop owner) doesn't charge for shipping. With those packs, if you flew at full throttle the whole flight (probably not going to be doing that with a U-can do) you'd have a 5 minute flight, but if you fly normal, some full power & mostly 1/2 - 3/4 power, you'll have your 10 minute flight time no problem. If your radio has a timer, set it for 8 minutes so that you have an idea of when to start thinking about the normal landing stuff.

Here's a speed controller that would work well, http://lightflightrc.com/HTML/products/70A_ESC.htm You will need to use a receiver battery. There are high voltage Esc's that have the ability to power the receiver & servos built in, but most only have a 3 amp rating. If you start pushing your plane into some 3-d maneuvers you can exceed that 3 amp & oops, look there's some smoke. Never let the magic smoke out, things go bad when that happens. Plus if you want to run a 6 volt system, you're limited by the ESC, so it's easier to just use the receiver battery. Oh, and also more reliable, the battery gerates no RF noise like the UBEC can, & so long as you remember to charge the RX pack, you're good to go.

Hope that helps. Oh, and the numbers of amp draw & flight times, no gaurantees of that, but it gets you really close to the ball park. And with English no being your native launguage, it is mine & can't always use it correctly either.
Old 09-17-2008, 07:16 PM
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ktaylor
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

Raul, don't go ordering just yet, I just noticed you're from Aruba, I used those stores thinking that you're in the USA. I'll find the same package for you from Hobby City, same stuff just different packaging or brand names.
Old 09-17-2008, 07:49 PM
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

motor
http://tinyurl.com/4kfh5k

battery
http://tinyurl.com/4ne2qc

ESC
http://tinyurl.com/3rj4sx

Charger
http://tinyurl.com/4xaqzn

This will let you charge both packs at once with the previous charger
http://tinyurl.com/4j3rp3

This will let you hook both packs into 6 cell configuration in the plane.
http://tinyurl.com/4r7u76
Old 09-17-2008, 08:54 PM
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

Thanks for jumping in and listing what Raul needs to get flying Kate.

Raul,
Brad is "Glacier Girl". Your thread was found by AJ from the Badius thread and posted a link asking for someone to help you. The Boys, as I refer to them, are some of the best people I've ever had the pleasure to meet. When they say you are Family, you are Family. Best part is it's a Family of choice.

Might be a good idea to keep this thread going at least until you have all the parts you need and your plane is flyable. There are a lot of people that will read the thread but not post because they want the same information you do.
With any luck, many will find a way to get their plane in the air because of this thread. It's a good thing when that happens.

Oh, don't forget to post your progress as you build your plane. I'd like to see how it goes.
Old 09-17-2008, 09:53 PM
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raulcroes
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

The only thing that I can say is "God bless you guys" I've gotten more information than I ever thought was possible. When you say your gonna help, you mean it! Wow, I'm impressed. I finally know what I need to buy and where and what to reasonable expect performance wise. The feeling of reassurance is very comforting. I was afraid of spending money on things that were not compatible nor properly configured. Now that's in the past. I'll have to pull out the calculator to add the stuff up and to verify if the cash is there or if I'll have to wait till the end of the month to get "the early Christmas presents". Thanks a million and thanks for the invite on your thread, I'll be chiming-in very soon.

respectfully,

Raul G. Croes (a very happy man right now!)[8D]
Old 09-18-2008, 08:15 AM
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Loubud
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

Raul,
It will all work out well. You only need to buy the charger once and lipos just now and then. Planes are a different story. May crash and need another one if it can't be fixed. Or, you may get hooked and decide you need 25 new planes.
I don't need any thanks. Just AJ for finding you and Brad and Kate. Kate gets a bunch of praise. Knows how to put together some real power on a budget. And all of my planes do well with his recommendations.
Old 06-30-2009, 08:50 AM
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

Great thread guys! You've told me where I can get good, inexpensive equipment as I am a glow to electric converter. Thanks again!
Old 08-15-2009, 06:12 PM
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aeajr
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.

> EVERYTHING YOU WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT ELECTRIC FLIGHT
> http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7100376/tm.htm
Old 08-15-2009, 11:49 PM
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Default RE: need help configuring an airplane for electric flight.



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