Dear Studduck

I was here at the beginning of this thread
about 2 months ago I took the time and re-read the whole thing again, and I gained some insight.

As far as not enough time, we all have 24 hours everyday. Perhaps at almost 18 I myself was a little impatient.

Studduck

I think you missed what I was saying. but no prob. I geus I did not see what was in your post. but from one post you see people as in one way. My post was not to be bad to you in any way. but it looks as if you took it that way. I am sorry for that. But from one post you lable us all.

Paul

I only had to read the first four and last 4 pages and i felt comfortable to start a conversions. Great sucess on a 21cc weedeater engine and a 42cc poulan chainsaw engine.

i want to apoligize for going a little off the deep end. ive been known not to be a morning person. but thank you everone for the clarification. i normally have puite a few old weed eaters on hand so im tempted to play with a hole bunch of them then write a how to if it hasent been done yet. and once again im sorry for being so harsh/rude. and thanks again

It is not funny for people, who are on this tread for at the few years (this thread is ober four years old) to answer the same question over and over again. I bet I can count at least 10 answers in this treat to exactly the same question. I gave it at least two times.

Here they are:

My posts:
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5868092]Post #: 1319[/link]
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5871472]Post #: 1326[/link]
and few more...

Av8tor's posts:
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3523708] Post #: 372 [/link]
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4441850]Post #: 723[/link]
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4711685]Post #: 791[/link]
and many more...

There are also posts by aero nut, Ralphbf, KI8FR and few other guys. Read this thread carefully, and you will find may answers to the questions you are giung to ask.

I do not understan what is wrong with asking a quetion about gas/glow. there are 2 things about it. One is you get the info off had some people that has did it. and it is fun to put up a post and have some one answer is. I was just making a joke about a post that I did not read it and get all the info in what was being asked. I though some one was giveing us ideas on how to make it work we av8tor has perity much did it. I am sorry for that I was not making a joke to hurt.

But the last post by RysiuM I kind of lost what you was trying to say. Can you kindly word it agian. I cant tell if you talking to us or to the some one other then us. Sorry about that. lol

Short version is: RTFM

Long version: RCU Board is not a good tool to create a Knowledge Database but but we have it in this thread. Lots of knowledge, experiments, results, recommendations and mistakes. It is long manual, almost 2 thousand posts, but it is worth to read to understand where we came from and what we (as a gropup) accomplished. There is no realy one word: "10/10 2:1". It did not work for me, duh... but works for many others. I use "15/18 1:5" but I explained in detail why. You have to read this Manual to understand. Yes, I was lucky - I joined the thread when it was only 7 pages long (my first post was 154), now the reading is enough for days. But I can assure everybody, it want get any shorter

Now the answer to KI8FR question: I would recommend to READ first then ask questions (like I did [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3118789]"It took me a while to read all pages"[/link]). If someone wants to cut corners and get everything explained in one post, he will be missing a lot. Even posts describing a failure (like mine in example) bring out the knowledge and let everybody learn from mistakes already made.

Ok got it now. Thanks.


Paul

Perhaps Aeronut could edit his first post and add a basic outline.

With the working formula and some key places to read.

It would help new comers find their way.

Just a thought......

Our "Gas/Glow" projects, experiments, etc. are getting so big that maybe we need a whole new section in RCU!!

You know, they have the "Gas Engines" section, the "Conversion engine" section.... maybe we need a "Gas/Glow" section.

It's not only us that are interested. At one point Keith from BME contacted me and was considering including the Gas/Glow option in his company's offerings. It might have happened, except he got busy with other problems...

AV8TOR

RCU locks posts that are older than month or so, and authors can not edit them any more. I understand the idea to not allow to screw up the forum when someone changes his mind or get pissed, but on the other hand some threads are live for a long time and some old posts may need to be editied if author needs to update the information (in example replace dead http links).

Maybe Aeronut needs to contact moderator, and he (moderator) can unlock the post for editing.

"Gas/Glow" section. I like that.

i admit that i was ignorant when i stumbled upon this tread but this is probably on of the most interesting subjects i have ever found. right now im trimming the fat on my test engine and i am hopeing to get some sparkle within a week givin that my local hobby town carrys the correct glofuel.

I do too. This way, we can spread different aspects of gas/glow in different topics instead of burring it up in this one-mile-long thread.

Methanol is hard to find around here. I was just wondering what the percentage of methanol was used in a typical gallon jug of automotive window washing fluid, usually seen everywhere for a $buck or so. I first thought of distilling it, but also wondered about placing a large cloth bag of silica gel (found on Ebay cheap) in a clear gallon mason jar with the fluid. After a while, the silica gel would absorb most of the water (some sources claim 99.5%!) .

http://holographyforum.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2979

The silica gel could then be dried and reused for the next batch. The jugs I've looked at don't give a percentage of the methanol content, but list methanol first as the major component.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/me...ter-d_987.html From this chart, one would assume a methanol concentration of close to 50%, possibly showing an economy potential of $2 gallon for the methanol.

I often wondered how popular the distillation of ethanol from E85 is getting....for drinking purposes? I don't consume alcohol anymore, having enjoyed a long "career". $4/gallon for 200 proof booze would make it attractive for sure, just monitor the distillation curves like a hawk. I'm sure the goverment chemists would soon find a chemical additive to discourage this practice....but it would be difficult to imagine which compound they would employ.

http://www.alcohol-injection.com/for...tle-3-421.html

I am also thinking of the feasablity of running gas /glow with two tanks...the main tank supplying conventional 40-1 mix. A smaller tank of water/meth with maybe a metered T connection at the carb...incorporated a check valve at the water/meth(washer fluid) tank to prevent backflow. The thrust of this threefold, keeping the plug glowing...reduce costs ... and maybe a slight boost in power from the water/meth.
I suggest a stock R/C remote needle valve to meter the flow from the "aux" tank to the T connection.

Just pipe dreaming again....don't know whether the metering aspect would create it's own nightmare or whether the concept is valid...I'll try to set it up when I get time.

Once water and methanol mix they become one and the water cannot be seperated from the methanol.

i havent heard of useing silica gel to clean up the methanol but you can distill both easy for methanol all you need is a simple pot still. dosent need to be food grade cause you dont want to drink it . methanol is the root of all the myths that moonshine will make you go blind. methanol is easly made useing puliverized wood (newspaper works good.) sugar water and yeast. ethanol on the other hand is a grain alcahol. it is normally made useing corn but wheat works too. just need that natural sugars and starches of grain. potatoes will work too justs takes longer to ferment. corn makes a whiskey potatoes makes vodka dont ask me how i know [:-] now it is chemically impossible to produce a 200 proof (100%) alcohol. and dont try to distill it from e85 to drink it will still contain trace amounts of petrolium distilates the ones that vaporize at the same temp as ethanol. (about 73 degrees C.) ive played with converting my old bug to ethanol ill try it on a glow and see what i can come up with because ethanol cost just under a dollar to produce a gallon. not counting the cost to fuel the fire. but its not that hard if you do the research and practice. ethanol requires a more complicated distillation process to produce the higher proof. but it is still an easy recipe. sugar starch (grain) water yeast. want to know more message me.

chemistry was my best subject.

and you can seperate methanol from water with the magic of distillation. use wiper fluid dont have to wait for fermentation. but fermenting at home is still cheaper. 2.00 a gal or 60 cents a gal which do you choose.

Remember that it is methanol that we want for glow operation. I tried ethanol, (E-85) but could not get it to work properly.

Having said that, OS engines has developed a glow engine that does run on ethanol. I don't know what their secret to getting it to work is, but they mention head changes and a special glow plug I believe.

Methanol is needed to make the glow plug work, (a catalytic reaction) in the engines we are working with. If anyone figures out how OS got ethanol to work, let me know...

AV8TOR

Does it have anything to do with SmartPlugs - we talked about it here some time ago.

you know what guys!!!! I have not recalled of any of us trying E85 with glow fuel in the same proportions that we use Gas/Glow[sm=50_50.gif] maybe that would be another alternative for those who can get E85 and who knows maybe it works better, just make sure to stick with our one part 10/10 glow fuel and two parts E85. Does anybody whants to volunteer??[sm=72_72.gif]
if some does let us know how did it go.

I think the idea came out from captinjohn but has not been continued for no particular reason (it started [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=4095331]almost two years ago[/link]).

than [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=6505573]18 months later[/link] wingspan99 tried it having some results, but the discussion faded away. Now I see there is another topic about it [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=6479059]I converted a glow engine to run on E85 [/link]. I guess I ned to have some reading. There is not much difference for me as E85 is still not available for bublic access within 500 miles from Sacramento [:@]


Edit: After reading this thread (I converted a glow engine to run on E85) I don't see much benefit from replacing gasoline with E85 in the gas/glow mix. The main reason I see is the carb setting issue. E85 needs to run much richer, and at the end you may end up with replacing original carb with th high-flow one and your milage will go to drain. It will be still better than running pure methanol, but not as good as gasoline.

RE: I converted a glow engine to run on E85 - 10/22/2007 2:47:29 PM


wingspan99




Certified




Posts: 493
Joined: 12/12/2001
From: Colorado Springs, CO, USA
Status: offline I got the plugs today, thank you. Those plugs labeled HOT I'm hoping will give good results in the ASP 108 on the E85/GLow mix. If they do work well, I may try increasing the ratio to 3:1, using more E85 with less nitro and I'll just add more oil to get at least 15% synthetic. My Morgan synthetic oil is supposed to arrive on Thursday, that's when I'll be trying both types of plugs. My tach should be here about the same time.

One thing I've been reading about lately is the addition of anti-static agents to fuels. They break the surface tension of the fuel, allowing better vaporization of the fuels from what I can tell. Incredibly small amounts are all that is needed, similar to a single drop of soap breaking the surface tension of water in a bucket. One thing a lot of folks have been experimenting with is acetone in gasoline to do this. Of course there's patented and branded versions like oxytane (.com). The acetone is harsh and can swell most gaskets at least a little, but the ratio used is 3 ounces of acetone to 10 gallons of gasoline. That's 1:433. Reports of increased gas mileage by 20% are not uncommon, and smoother operation and slightly more power at top end. It makes sense to me, fuel is not completely vaporized before combustion takes place so some of it gets wasted or burned late in the power stroke. Some experiments with E85 and Oxytane on a 5hp Briggs motor indicate that the mixture gets richer after it's added to the fuel, and so a stock carb's needle mixture control range is sufficient without re-jetting. That would tell me it changing the stoich of the fuel. I know some glow fuel manufacturers used to add acetone to their fuels, probably for the same reason. I don't know what to think about all these claims made by magic-in-a-bottle manufacturers, so I'm going to just say hmmm, that's interesting. I'm going to try 0.2% acetone in my bike motor's fuel tank on gasoline and see if the mixture goes richer. I've heard the acetone reacts with ethanol to produce ketone, I need more research on that, although acetone is already a ketone. There's so much misinformation and confusion about fuels out there. Sometimes I think an hour spent trying a few things is worth about a week of asking what works, just like the gas/glow thread.

_____________________________

Tom in Colorado Springs, CO

This was the last post I could find by wingspan99! What do you think Rysium. Capt,n

I have many thoughts
1. I don't have E85 station near by so the experimenting with E85 remains a "theory" area

2. Gas glow benefits for me mostly with the fuel economy - engine+fuel is lighter in the plane. Mixing E85 is pointless for me, as does not achieve my primary goal.

3. I'm approaching all "fuel additives" that supposed to create power boost or better fuel economy the same way as (like we said in Poland) "a dog approaches a hedgehog" . I have assumption, that if something needs to be in a gasoline for better engine treatment, probably it is already added at the refinery. The same is with "oil additives". You may get better power, but you don't know, that you may hurt your engine.

I'm still driving my 95 Tacoma (4x4) with 2.7 inline engine. This truck has almost 240k miles and the smog test (mandatory in California) never changed for all these years. On the cheapest gasoline in town (Arco 87oct) I have 21mpg every time. There is no light truck with better mileage. The only thing I do is oil change every 5k miles (whatever brand Toyota Service puts in there).

I recall, AV8TOR already experimented with acetone (over 2 years ago), and Walbro carb did not like it at all.

I was about to experiment with OS 3500 converting it for Walbro and gas-glow, but I sold the engine before I started the project. Maybe it would make sense to modify some small RC engines (I have few old .40 size) to run on gas-glow would be good idea. having 15 minutes of flying from 2oz fuel tank . But I guess, I would have to modify the carb for proper fuel-air mixture.