Hi,

I'm pretty good with a torch, and not too bad with a Mig welder, but I have never done Tig. The question is, would this welder be any good for home/shop use like welding aluminum up to say 3/16" or so thick, or would a guy hate himself for buying it shortly after getting it home?????

Here it is: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91811

Thanks!
AV8TOR

You would hate yourself, you need ac to weld aluminum and it looks as if the largest tungston is 1/16 I look at several welders and asked everyone i could , ended up getting a miller syncrowave 180, still hasn't paid for itself yet ,building mufflers. I also tried mig aluminum ,worked fine for heavy gauge but not muffler material

Checked the link you listed, but Harbor Freight site indicates that number is invalid. I looked at the equipment they offered for sale and didn't see any with the capability to weld aluminum in the stock configuration.

I'm not sure of your level of knowledge of aluminum welding, but you need a power supply with A/C output, equipped with high frequency for starting and cleaning of metal as you weld.
Also required is a regulated supply of shielding gas, usually argon for aluminum. Most dedicated TIG machines will have these features as standard equipment. High frequency converters are available for machines without that feature and the regulated supply of shielding gas can be as simple as a gas bottle with a flow valve plumbed direct to the torch.

Since you're handy with a gas torch, you might like to know that aluminum was welded with that process until the invention of TIG. The use of an oxygen/hydrogen mix is preferred and a flux is applied to the welding rod during the process.

Good luck!

DT56

Thats correctamundo, I'm a journeyman welder, but got out of it 25 years ago. I'm looking for a tig machine now for the same reason. Looks like it costs a grand to get your ticket punched. Some really nice stuff out there now at a fraction of the price it was when I moved on.

Gas welding aluminum is a high level skill about like glass blowing.

Enjoy
Steve

Ok guys, thanks for the info!

Take care,
AV8TOR

Hi Guys,
This is interesting because I have an AC Lincoln welder and never thought about trying it with the hi frequency adapter,for Aluminum. I haven't kept up with welding to know the hi frequency adapter was even available, but thanks to you I do now. Up until now I have been using the Aluminum welding rods that are used with a Propane or Mapp torch. This is tricky to learn but you can do it. This type of welding works best when you keep the welding part of building a muffler to a minimum. I machine the parts and keep the fits as close as practical with beveled edges where the weld goes etc. This stuff won't often flow like normal solder does. Patience and cleanliness like when soldering copper pays off. You can no doubt do a nicer looking job as with commercial mufflers using better (expensive) equipment, but you can do a decent job of it with these crazy rods. This stuff is very heavy, so use it sparingly, and brushing with a stainless steel brush really does help, it has something to do with Ions. I saw it demonstrated at a Flea market and on TV so I tried it. Now I like it, its another modeling tool now. Have any of you tried it?

There are ways to get an A/C TIG for a bit less if you don't mind older equipment..

Hunt around for an old Miller or Airco Heliarc box.. You can find em for $250-$300 sometimes.

I had a 1957 Miller TA-252BP TIG AC tig welder.. great unit but it's the size of a refrigirator.
It ran 10-400amps.. single phase 220v with PF caps. remote foot control and gas/water valves with post flow timer..
I have pics of it here
http://www.pontiacs.org/modules.php?...view_album.php
I has to sell it when I moved to CO.. The company wouldn't pay to ship it.

They turn up on Ebay from time to time.. also watch local equipment auctions.
There's always a welder or two on the block.

Uh yeah.. Don't get a 3 phase unless you have 3 phase power.. phase converters don't work well on welders.

Anything over $500 and I'd spend the extra $$ on a nice light inverter model.

One thing to watch out for on the older stuff is that they use a spark gap to generate the hi freq. Not only do they generate enormous amounts of RF interferance, but the points a quite expensive if they have to be replaced, if you can find them at all. The old stuff works great, but your dealing with trying to find parts for obslete equipment.

Steve

well, heres my 2 cents..... after welding for 10 plus years, mainly tig, and teaching others to weld(local college) one of the biggest things is to stick with a name brand...ie: Lincoln or miller. with those brands, parts and support are readily avalabile.I personaly have a miller 185 mig welder and a lincoln 175pro tig welder. they both work great! Remember, you get what you pay for A tig welder is defanitly versitle.... it will weld mild steel, stainlesss, aluminum, titanium, copper...all with the same shielding gas , just have to flip a swich ac/dc depending on what material your "zappin" up.

Thanks for all the answers/advice guys...

Now, while I have the welders attention, how do you remove brazing flux???? I've been brazing things for years, but never brazed anything that was going to be painted before. I braze my various mufflers together, and if you don't get all the flux off, it corrodes through the paint and looks like hell after a while. I've tried chipping it off, wire brush on a grinder, etc. That stuff is tough!! Any ideas??

Thanks,
AV8TOR

PUT IT IN A PAN AND BOIL IT.
FARMER TED

That 1957 Miller looks a lot like a 1983 Miller Gold star 330 that I have in my shop. It has a max output of 435 amps. If my memory serves me it cost me around $3000 new. I paid for it the first month I had it. Never had a problem with it. Still works like new. Best tool I ever bought. I can't do the beautiful welds I did 15 years ago but its not the welders' fault. Ha You can weld .010" aluminum with it if you are current...by that I mean that you weld several hours a week. I weld maybe 2 hours a year now and I wouldn't try anything less than say .040".

If you a going to do some serious aluminum and thin you need to think remote foot pedal amperage control, water cooled torch because they are about 1/3 or 1/4 the size of an air cooled one. The cable is also water cooled and is so flexible making intricate work a breeze.

since you are an instructor, I have a question. I happen to already have a Carbon Dioxide tank with the regulator, left over from a Pizza Shop and soda pop use. How compatible is CO2 for use with welding and is it a good substitute for Argon. I would like a Mig for occasional use on auto body panels and a Tig would be nice too, but awful expensive for just making small parts like mufflers. I am thinking now only about a Mig system and have looked at the Harbor Freight systema also. (Is Chicago Electric their house brand?) This is more that one question now, maybe we can bring this thread to life again. We have a Harbor Freight in our area now and I am wondering who is buying their welding machines? I don't know anyone that has one to give an opinion, does anyone know someone with one? The people at Harbor Freight only know about selling and that is why I didn't jump at their prices which look pretty good at first glance, but what about service as brought up previously in the thread.

you can call tech suppoet for harbor freight. The co2 will not replace argon but will work on a mig welding mild steel. The cheep migs do not weld aluminum very good , if you buy a spooler for the hand you might get by but your welds will never look very good on thin material, I am no welder but I fought the mig thing for a long time and finally brokedown and got a tig. I still have my mig although it is not a harbor freight model it is a 220volt 170 amp with gas , it still will heat up after welding quita bit and shut down till it cools would work good on car bodys but 16 gauge steel gives it a good workout. A freind has one of the 110v units it is almost good enough to throw across the room every 5 minutes

I'm no welder, but it's nice to know that I'm not the only guy who is occasionally tempted to throw a POS tool across the room. Just the other day, I had my GP Triton charger in my hand. I was mad, and I was looking real hard at that concrete wall in the basement. I didn't do it, but I was sooooooo close to chucking that thing.

I've done some mig welding on mild steel. I do okay with it. I've been tempted to buy a Tig machine several times, but the ones I wanted always cost close to $1000, and I don't think I can sell enough mufflers to ever pay for it.

I used to be a Journeyman sheet metal worker. I had to weld galvanized sheet metal more times than I'd care to admit. Nasty stuff. You need enough ventilation to simulate a tornado, just to keep from passing out from the fumes. I would always drink milk before, during, and after welding on that stuff. It helps keep the headache to a dull roar. If you don't drink milk, the headache is enough to make you contemplate a swan dive off the top of a very tall building with a paper parachute.

well I can tell you to sell enough mufflers to pay for a tig setup at these prices would take a very long time and a lot of mufflers, My tig was 1500.00 plus the gas 30.00 every few mufflers , welding rods don't remember the price per #, stainless brushes every so often, tungsten 3.00 each plus collets for every size, lots od electricity, acids to clean the mufflers the aluminum to make them with .saw blades to cut the aluminum and the list goes on , so there is not much profit in them alone. I have lots of time and no money so I don't have to do it for profit it is a hobby for me but is nice to make enough to buy more material to make some more.

Thats only if you don't work full time as a welder I never bought a single filler rod nor stick nor brush nor gloves LOL!
Jokes aside..At work we weld stainless steel mostly but also do some aluminum.We have syncrowave miller 250 amp welders .As it was said..to weld aluminum you have to have a high freq A/C. Your tungsten should be sharpened like a crayon instead of like a pencil.
It's dangerouse to have high freq AC if area damp or high humidity around you such as wet floor or wet gloves cuz u can get a pretty big shock .As far as torch goes...You need to talk with welding supply store in your area.I once needed to fix my friend's aluminum boat and ***holes at work didn't let me bring it to work and fix it.So i bough a rods,i think it was like 28$/lb rods covered with flux.
All you do is clean the welding area,wipe it with acetone and brush it with stainless steel brush.Make your flame less oxidant.By that i mean ajusting your torch where you will have some unburned flame over the hottest zone .Then go ahead and weld.It doesnt flow as stainless,It sits there rather like a playdough. If you really interested i can find out a brandname of the wire i used sometimes next week .
pm me if you need any info.

I missed something, we went from a tig to a gas tourch , it isn't much cheaper to go with a tourch and gas with those filler rods is it? I have never managed to get the weld I wanted wit those special rods like a tig does.
You also have to be careful with the gas tourch , it can really burna person or building .

And it wouldn't make any visual difference if you had to grind and polish welds afterwards.
As of being careful with torch...If you think you are at risk of burning yourself or burning a house down welding is N O T for you.

To av8tor... You remove brazing flux by washing it off with water. All fluxes..well most of them are phosphoric and fluoric acid based . Most of them i ever dealt with are water solubable so after weld cools down just take a wet rag to it .Or if size and circumstances allows you -drop the part in a bucket with water for a day or so.You can also chip it off with chipping hammer leaving ugly marks on the metal but i prefer water

why would you have to grind and polish the welds ? Does that make it stronger? Will the tourch setup weld 2 pop cans together without burning thru? I ask this cause i am not a welder but am learning and this way I can see if i need to invest in a tourch the one i tried it said to use map gas, it wasn't perty.

Sometimes you have to make a welds look nice cosmetically thats why grinding...No it doesnt make welds stronger .

No,rods won't weld two cans together.Nether can I after 7 years of tig welding. I've heard of stories of folks welding bottoms of aluminum cans together but i never seen one welded.Are you planning on welding aluminum cans together?
The reason i suggested rods is simplicity and affordablility. If you want to spend a few grand just to build a few mufflers -there is a cheap alternatives-aluminum-flux-rods.If you want to make a living doing tig welding then by all means go with highest priced tig rig you can afford.
If you read my previous post i only welded a hole in the bottom of a fishing boat with those rods.It wasn't prettiest weld but it held up and i think today near 3 years later it still there

I was to a real big flea market last summer and seen a person welding aluminum parts of all kinds. They was selling rod that was $20 a pack. I think the torch was a map gas like the ones you can buy at Wallmart. Have any of you guys seen this done? thanks Capt,n

I think they call that rod Alumabraze or something like that. Someone gave me some but I have never tried it.

CaptJohn, The rods you saw being used with a Propane torch or a Mapp torch are the ones I talked about earlier in this thread. I have the hang of using them now and can weld up mufflers that stay together. I haven't done Mig or Tig but I have done gas, Actelene, Prestolite, Propane etc., so I watched the guy at a Flea Market myself, and then I knew it wasn't just a promotion to sell something, I just messed with it until I got the hang of it. But, now I have been researching Mig welders myself. I have been looking at a couple of Clarke brand welders a model 130EN 130 Amp wirefeed, which is a 120 volt input for $400 plus s&h and a model 180EN wirefeed and 220 volt input. Both have carts and the conversion kit for gas and the 180EN is $500. I have an electrical background so I took notice of the duty cycles, the 130EN is 30%@90Amps and the 180EN is 25% @ 130 Amps. The 130 Amp model would no doubt be suitable for what I want, mostly thinner metal welding. (I already have a Lincoln 220Amp stick Welder.) I still would prefer a 220 volt input model. I saw these Clarkes in a Northern Tool & Equipment catalog. They aslo have a website. I would think these are a grade up from the Harbor Freight Welders without being too high priced. I watch the Hot Rod and Bike building shows on TV, some of those guys have real talent, using their Mig Welders, and I am beginning to want one. In looking through catalogs, I noticed that with the Flux wire Welders, that don't need gas, the spools of this gasless flux wire is noticeablly more expensive, so the gas would probably be cheaper in the long run. It seems that you get more splatter with the gasless wire also, as some of you might be able to confirm. I would use a Mig for Car body repair and similiar thin steel, but didn't one of you say that a Mig isn't the greatest for welding model mufflers and TIG is better? Anyone have any comments on the Clarke brand of Welders? They have aluminum, mild steel, and stainless steel wire for these in 3 different diameters, and now who knows how useful Mig would be for Aluminum for model use?

Mitty, I have seen a guy weld Aluminum Pop cans together with the Aluminum propane gas welding rods that I now use. Its a trick, but he did it, you need to be quick and in this case most of the heat goes to melt the rod and then you very quickly sort of smear it on the cans with the rod, its nuts to see, because the propane flame will burn through the thin Aluminum cans as fast as you can blink. I make mufflers with these rods, but I use .060" thick Aluminum as a Minimum, because as you know a muffler will have the manifold section that bolts on to the engine and the main body will be thinner and you need to account for this, as you know, when spreading the heat of the flame around to get the various thicknesses of material up to the necessary temperature of these crazy rods. Different Aluminum alloys act differently as you can guess with these rods as in all welding. Sometimes, only sometimes, the rod metal will flow like solder, but don't expect it to. What amazes me sometimes is that you can melt this rod metal on To Aluminum and then brush it off with a stainless brush or a rag or whatever and there will be no residue, it all comes off. With lead solder you will always see a thin coating of the solder remain. These rods can test your patience, but it can be done, but again, you are working with something that is pretty hot and you sure don't want to get careless, distracted, etc. I keep the necessary welding of my muffler designs to a minimum and I have the hang of fusing the Aluminum and the rod metal alltogether into very stong joints. A drawback is that the rod metal is heavy, so I grind any excess off for looks and to remove the weight. It seems that the process is not always exactly the same as the last time you did it, because of differences of the Aluminum that we scrounge up. One trick I picked up is small but useful at times. If you weld on one section of a muffler and then let it cool down before doing a later weld, it seems as though the first part will need to be brought up to a higer temperature than when welded, before it will melt again, and I use this to get a second weld done without melting the first. This is where the persistance and the observation of a modeler comes in handy. I also use a Stainless welding rod with the coating removed to poke and push the molten rod metal around where I want it, it gets crazy at times, but I get determined to get my mufflers made. I just made two Pitts style mufflers, one for an OS .20 and an Enya .19, you can't buy this size in a Pitts muffler. Yes I have screwed up a couple in the learning process. If anyone wants to seriously try doing this, I'll try to help. I have another post in the Lumiweld post that might help to explain this welding process.