New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
06-01-2010 | 06:11 AM
#1301
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
The fuses are set.Why that programming software complains is beyond me. John try this . As far as what pins are input or output Nothing has changed.
Code:
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
06-01-2010 | 12:19 PM
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From: , UZBEKISTAN
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
ORIGINAL: Bigboat
I was see all over the years people have problems with the flybacktransformer and components.
The components will be burnout if the ocsilator stops, or in some cases the flyback didn't do anything.
If we take a normal transformer, something like 220/6 Volt and we put a puls on the 6V, we get 220Volt at the other side of the transformer.
We can also put a frequentie on the 6Volt side we need and not we can(n't) get.
At low rpm we can put a lowrate of pulses on the transformer, at high rpm a highrate of pulses.
If there are no pulses from the hall, we can stop the ocsilator and safe batteries.
Maybe we can put the position of the gasservo into the pic.....I don't know why yet, but it's possible.
The last copple of years we learn and see we make some mistakes into the past.
If we make a new CDI-concept, we must do it without the mistakes and not try to fix the mastakes.
I was see all over the years people have problems with the flybacktransformer and components.
The components will be burnout if the ocsilator stops, or in some cases the flyback didn't do anything.
If we take a normal transformer, something like 220/6 Volt and we put a puls on the 6V, we get 220Volt at the other side of the transformer.
We can also put a frequentie on the 6Volt side we need and not we can(n't) get.
At low rpm we can put a lowrate of pulses on the transformer, at high rpm a highrate of pulses.
If there are no pulses from the hall, we can stop the ocsilator and safe batteries.
Maybe we can put the position of the gasservo into the pic.....I don't know why yet, but it's possible.
The last copple of years we learn and see we make some mistakes into the past.
If we make a new CDI-concept, we must do it without the mistakes and not try to fix the mastakes.
Hi ALL! I think it is the best idea for last 3 years of this project!
After many trys to build normally working CDI hardware and soft, i started thinking like you.
And i can write software for 16f84a for this new schematic.
Just tell me what frequency transformer need for best performance.
I think we need to switch off hv generation when thiristor opens, and when capasitor fully charged, to save battary. And we need to use mosfet field transistor.
Lets try to start new CDI project together!
06-01-2010 | 09:13 PM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Charlie.. this is getting frustrating... I copied and pasted that hex code into wordpad..simple enough...When I scrolled to the end of the file on the screen, there is the same line of text I was getting before.. something like "read more http://rcuniverse blah blah blah".. It's screwing everything up. also, the straight line format is gone..it bunched it all up into one paragraph..no end of line markers etc..
I figured I'd remove that garbage line at the end and save the file anyway..Renamed it with the hex ext. and proceded to load it into PicProg4u and it tells me the same thing as before..configuration word not set or missing..Either way, it was not successful.. Programmed the chip and nothing..chip remained blank..
I guess I need to set the configuration word myself.. What values or settings should I turn on or off. Watchdog? Brownout, etc..as it loaded, they were all turned on and it locked up..no activity from the chip. Very frustrating to say the least! If you have a working hex file, can you zip it up and email it to me.. Maybe the forum is screwing things up by using the code tags or something.. I get garbage in the first line and also the last line.. not visible on the forum but tagged to the file when you copy and paste it.
What I am going to try is to load the old testfunc4.hex file into the programmer, and then look at the configuration word it has set. copy the results down and reload your code and set it like the other working hex file.. It might work..not sure. I'll let you know..
John
I figured I'd remove that garbage line at the end and save the file anyway..Renamed it with the hex ext. and proceded to load it into PicProg4u and it tells me the same thing as before..configuration word not set or missing..Either way, it was not successful.. Programmed the chip and nothing..chip remained blank..
I guess I need to set the configuration word myself.. What values or settings should I turn on or off. Watchdog? Brownout, etc..as it loaded, they were all turned on and it locked up..no activity from the chip. Very frustrating to say the least! If you have a working hex file, can you zip it up and email it to me.. Maybe the forum is screwing things up by using the code tags or something.. I get garbage in the first line and also the last line.. not visible on the forum but tagged to the file when you copy and paste it.
What I am going to try is to load the old testfunc4.hex file into the programmer, and then look at the configuration word it has set. copy the results down and reload your code and set it like the other working hex file.. It might work..not sure. I'll let you know..
John
06-01-2010 | 11:38 PM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Well, that didn't work at all..so I tried loading your file and it says no configuration word in hex file. When I tried programming my chip with it, it tells me that the code is protected and it only writes the first 4 bits to the chip and the rest is blank when I look at it. So I erased the chip and reprogrammed with a known working hex file. The other 2 hex files that always worked still program correctly and function correctly in the timer boards. I am baffled!
Anyone have some ideas as to what's going on?
John
Anyone have some ideas as to what's going on?
John
06-02-2010 | 12:52 AM
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From: AK, NEW ZEALAND
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Hello "how_eee" and welcome to the project.........it would be of great help to us all if you had time to write some software for the CDi circuit project
please ask "Bigboat" for all the details and info you need....or he will post them again when that side of the world awakes haha
Regards
Brett
please ask "Bigboat" for all the details and info you need....or he will post them again when that side of the world awakes haha
Regards
Brett
06-02-2010 | 05:33 AM
#1307
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
hi John,
I must say it has to do with your programming software Here is a pic of the fuses.As you can see code protect is off.
I must say it has to do with your programming software Here is a pic of the fuses.As you can see code protect is off.
06-02-2010 | 07:35 AM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Charlie..
I got it to program now.. the thing I am having problems with is it is very unstable.. One time I fire the circuit up it works in test mode..the next time it doesn't.. and will spark erraticly..not sure what that is.. but it does eventually work.
John
I got it to program now.. the thing I am having problems with is it is very unstable.. One time I fire the circuit up it works in test mode..the next time it doesn't.. and will spark erraticly..not sure what that is.. but it does eventually work.
John
06-02-2010 | 09:36 AM
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From: , UZBEKISTAN
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
this is my version of soft and hard in attachment.
description:
;*Modified by how_eee 27.04.2010
;
;*Fixed many errors in program and added new features.
;*Fixed portA initialization and moved hall input from pin2 to pin1
;*Fixed time to check that engine stops - now it really 0,5 sec
;*Changed test jumper examination. now it works correct
; In test mode thiristor open time 0.0005sec instead of 0.002 it gives more time to charge capasitor
; In normal mode it is 0.0001sec (dwell)
;*Add first spark flag. first retard time set by map jumper. Now there are 3 different maps (curves)
; Current map selects by map sel jumper on pin17 and pin18.
;*Position of hall sensor is 32deg before top dead center
;
;*This version tested on my rc aircraft (katana 1,8m) with gas engine "SWOOL CHAINSAW" 42 cm3
; Everything works correct! bun not perfect - problems with hardware (not enough voltage, bad hv capasitor, etc)
description:
;*Modified by how_eee 27.04.2010
;
;*Fixed many errors in program and added new features.
;*Fixed portA initialization and moved hall input from pin2 to pin1
;*Fixed time to check that engine stops - now it really 0,5 sec
;*Changed test jumper examination. now it works correct
; In test mode thiristor open time 0.0005sec instead of 0.002 it gives more time to charge capasitor
; In normal mode it is 0.0001sec (dwell)
;*Add first spark flag. first retard time set by map jumper. Now there are 3 different maps (curves)
; Current map selects by map sel jumper on pin17 and pin18.
;*Position of hall sensor is 32deg before top dead center
;
;*This version tested on my rc aircraft (katana 1,8m) with gas engine "SWOOL CHAINSAW" 42 cm3
; Everything works correct! bun not perfect - problems with hardware (not enough voltage, bad hv capasitor, etc)
06-02-2010 | 10:36 AM
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From: Alkmaar, NETHERLANDS
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
I see you pickup the old version of the CDI.
We skip this version becourse the table-value must done by hand.
You need a lot of calculation for the right timing to get the degrees.
Why do you feed the TIL111 from the HV-side, this will be distroy the TIL111.
The cristal can be a 4MHz resonator, cheap - small and allways working.
We skip this version becourse the table-value must done by hand.
You need a lot of calculation for the right timing to get the degrees.
Why do you feed the TIL111 from the HV-side, this will be distroy the TIL111.
The cristal can be a 4MHz resonator, cheap - small and allways working.
06-02-2010 | 10:49 AM
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From: , UZBEKISTAN
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
i prepare table value with MS exel and withiut hand calculation.</p>
lets return to new hardware. what frequency PIC need to generate for transformer?</p>
06-02-2010 | 11:25 AM
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From: Alkmaar, NETHERLANDS
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
The frequentie depent of the engine you gone use.
A Zenoah need high frequentie and a chainsaw low.
I think we need 100x the rotations per second the engine run to load the capacitor(s).
High frequentie giving also trouble, the transformers can be saturate.
I think we must use the flybacktransformer we use now without the feedback wind.
Becourse we make the PIC frequentie, the transformer can't be saturate anymore.
The capacitor must also be changed, two small capacitors are faster loade the 1 big one.
A Zenoah need high frequentie and a chainsaw low.
I think we need 100x the rotations per second the engine run to load the capacitor(s).
High frequentie giving also trouble, the transformers can be saturate.
I think we must use the flybacktransformer we use now without the feedback wind.
Becourse we make the PIC frequentie, the transformer can't be saturate anymore.
The capacitor must also be changed, two small capacitors are faster loade the 1 big one.
06-02-2010 | 03:42 PM
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From: Alkmaar, NETHERLANDS
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
From the Germanforum http://www.power-spark.de/index_en.html
06-02-2010 | 07:19 PM
#1314
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
those seem nice Rob. A little spendy though.
John,
Is the test function really necessary? it seems more trouble then its worth. Why not have a separate tester to test the spark with?
John,
Is the test function really necessary? it seems more trouble then its worth. Why not have a separate tester to test the spark with?
06-02-2010 | 07:36 PM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
The test function is really a frill some people will enjoy. I use it alot to test new CDI boards for spark.. I think Nyemi is still going to add it back into his program. I made some new curves and am trying them out one at a time..takes forever.
If how_eee can edit our present code to get everything working, that would be a huge plus for us.
Charlie, I wonder if I took the program software suggestion and switched to a 16f628A chip, if the test feature would work? If I look at the device status, it tells me "not reccommended, try 16f628A". I am using 16f628 chips.. Maybe I'll try the other chip and see what happens.
I really don't want to go back to an older board with crystals etc.. Hopefully this will all get straightened out soon. I don't mind building a new version of the timer board...it just has to be simple to do..
John
If how_eee can edit our present code to get everything working, that would be a huge plus for us.
Charlie, I wonder if I took the program software suggestion and switched to a 16f628A chip, if the test feature would work? If I look at the device status, it tells me "not reccommended, try 16f628A". I am using 16f628 chips.. Maybe I'll try the other chip and see what happens.
I really don't want to go back to an older board with crystals etc.. Hopefully this will all get straightened out soon. I don't mind building a new version of the timer board...it just has to be simple to do..
John
06-03-2010 | 02:05 AM
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From: Alkmaar, NETHERLANDS
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Why a testfunction who use the sparkfunction ?
If someone can program a puls to one of test pins, you can connect this output to the hall input.
With this modification, you can test the hole picprogram.
Becourse there are also two testpins, its possible to make 2 outputs 300 and 7800 rpm maybe ???
If someone can program a puls to one of test pins, you can connect this output to the hall input.
With this modification, you can test the hole picprogram.
Becourse there are also two testpins, its possible to make 2 outputs 300 and 7800 rpm maybe ???
06-03-2010 | 03:49 PM
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From: , UZBEKISTAN
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Bigboat, what did you mean saying "old version", "new version". Please show me post number where i can see "new version" of hard and soft.</p>
gr8flyer55, I dont know C program language so good. only Assembler. it is easier for me and better optimization for program when writing in ASM. But if you tell me what you need i will try.</p>
06-03-2010 | 03:54 PM
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From: Alkmaar, NETHERLANDS
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Old - http://www.modelbouw.gompy.net/cdi/cdi.htm
New - http://www.modelbouw.gompy.net/newcdi/index.htm
Old version is based on a 16F84 with asm-file and the new one 16F628a and C.
New - http://www.modelbouw.gompy.net/newcdi/index.htm
Old version is based on a 16F84 with asm-file and the new one 16F628a and C.
06-05-2010 | 12:26 AM
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From: szarvas, HUNGARY
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
ORIGINAL: how_eee
this is my version of soft and hard in attachment.
description:
;*Modified by how_eee 27.04.2010
;
;*Fixed many errors in program and added new features.
;*Fixed portA initialization and moved hall input from pin2 to pin1
;*Fixed time to check that engine stops - now it really 0,5 sec
;*Changed test jumper examination. now it works correct
; In test mode thiristor open time 0.0005sec instead of 0.002 it gives more time to charge capasitor
; In normal mode it is 0.0001sec (dwell)
;*Add first spark flag. first retard time set by map jumper. Now there are 3 different maps (curves)
; Current map selects by map sel jumper on pin17 and pin18.
;*Position of hall sensor is 32deg before top dead center
;
;*This version tested on my rc aircraft (katana 1,8m) with gas engine "SWOOL CHAINSAW" 42 cm3
; Everything works correct! bun not perfect - problems with hardware (not enough voltage, bad hv capasitor, etc)
this is my version of soft and hard in attachment.
description:
;*Modified by how_eee 27.04.2010
;
;*Fixed many errors in program and added new features.
;*Fixed portA initialization and moved hall input from pin2 to pin1
;*Fixed time to check that engine stops - now it really 0,5 sec
;*Changed test jumper examination. now it works correct
; In test mode thiristor open time 0.0005sec instead of 0.002 it gives more time to charge capasitor
; In normal mode it is 0.0001sec (dwell)
;*Add first spark flag. first retard time set by map jumper. Now there are 3 different maps (curves)
; Current map selects by map sel jumper on pin17 and pin18.
;*Position of hall sensor is 32deg before top dead center
;
;*This version tested on my rc aircraft (katana 1,8m) with gas engine "SWOOL CHAINSAW" 42 cm3
; Everything works correct! bun not perfect - problems with hardware (not enough voltage, bad hv capasitor, etc)
06-05-2010 | 02:12 PM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Hello Nyemi....
Nice work once again!!!
Is it possible to use this hex code on our present timer boards? I didn't check input or output pins yet but it looks possible...
John
Nice work once again!!!
Is it possible to use this hex code on our present timer boards? I didn't check input or output pins yet but it looks possible...
John
06-05-2010 | 08:42 PM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Charlie..
Does it look like the new schematic will reflect changes to the present timer boards? or would the file Nyemi included function with our timer boards as built?
I see a few pin changes on the board input and output, plus functions have changed..maybe we have to build the new timer boards anyway.
John
Does it look like the new schematic will reflect changes to the present timer boards? or would the file Nyemi included function with our timer boards as built?
I see a few pin changes on the board input and output, plus functions have changed..maybe we have to build the new timer boards anyway.
John
06-06-2010 | 01:43 AM
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From: szarvas, HUNGARY
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
<span id="result_box" class="short_text"><span style="" title="">Tried to simplify the ASM program. </span><span style="" title="">That everyone understands. ASM translator, Ecxel Converter, soon.
</span></span><span id="result_box" class="short_text"><span style="" title="">Ignition curve( </span></span><span class="short_text" id="result_box"><span title="" style="">green) </span></span><span id="result_box" class="short_text"><span style="" title="">help. Link:www.elektroworld.info/ftp/index.php
</span></span>
</span></span><span id="result_box" class="short_text"><span style="" title="">Ignition curve( </span></span><span class="short_text" id="result_box"><span title="" style="">green) </span></span><span id="result_box" class="short_text"><span style="" title="">help. Link:www.elektroworld.info/ftp/index.php
</span></span>
06-07-2010 | 07:38 AM
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
Rob..
Does your layout program take a drawn circuit and make a PC board layout from it or do you have to manually place the components and draw the connections yourself? I'd like to make a new pcb for the circuit Nyemi has posted. Looking at his schematic, it seems like alot of component parts to fit in a small space.
John
Does your layout program take a drawn circuit and make a PC board layout from it or do you have to manually place the components and draw the connections yourself? I'd like to make a new pcb for the circuit Nyemi has posted. Looking at his schematic, it seems like alot of component parts to fit in a small space.
John
06-07-2010 | 07:44 AM
#1324
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RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
hi
john,
Most pcb layout packages take a schematic and make a pcb from it. Diptrace does and so does eagle both have a free version.
I agree there are a lot of components on that schematic. I though the point was to keep the part count minimal?
john,
Most pcb layout packages take a schematic and make a pcb from it. Diptrace does and so does eagle both have a free version.
I agree there are a lot of components on that schematic. I though the point was to keep the part count minimal?
06-07-2010 | 10:03 AM
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From: Alkmaar, NETHERLANDS
RE: New CDI - opensource project JMJ and Bigboat
I use two programs, Layo1 and Orcad (both DOS)
First I have to draw the schematic into Orcad and "connect" it to Layo1.
When I let Layo1 do autoroute, the PCB looks like a footbalfeeld.
I put the components on there places and draw the lines.
When I draw a wrong line, Layo1 tell me it's wrong.
If I draw all the lines, Layo1 can optimize the PCB.
When you look around, the Nyemi-pcb is allready be done.
I don't where I have see this schematic befor, but its not new.
http://veyrat.perso.neuf.fr/allumage_electronique.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_43...0/key_/tm.htm#
Please wait some time.....I'm not ready yet with the CDI's [8D]
First I have to draw the schematic into Orcad and "connect" it to Layo1.
When I let Layo1 do autoroute, the PCB looks like a footbalfeeld.
I put the components on there places and draw the lines.
When I draw a wrong line, Layo1 tell me it's wrong.
If I draw all the lines, Layo1 can optimize the PCB.
When you look around, the Nyemi-pcb is allready be done.
I don't where I have see this schematic befor, but its not new.
http://veyrat.perso.neuf.fr/allumage_electronique.htm
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_43...0/key_/tm.htm#
Please wait some time.....I'm not ready yet with the CDI's [8D]
