I thought I heard that 2010 was the cutoff on 2cycles? Sure like to see some bigcc, high production number, high power fours flood the market.. Will it even be possible to make decent chainsaws without 2 cycles powering them?

When can I buy one of these?

I would say.....yes! 4-strokes have proven to the world time and time again to be equal to or better then 2 strokes. And I personally hate to admit that as I love 2-strokes. They just take more time,money,and technology to get there,and that is usually obtained through forcing the issue for whatever reason.

When I was younger and racing motocross everthing was about 2-strokes and nobody in the world believed 4-strokes would take over the racing world and that once the government outlawed 2-strokes because of emissions etc.....it would be the end of our great sport. Well,guess what? All the big manufactuers started dumping tons of $$$$ into 4-stroke research and developement and now days even though you can still buy and race the great 2-stokes we all swore by(at least for now).......racing a 2-stroke is considers a big dissadvantage as 4-strokes have found ways to save alot of weight while turning that massive amount of torqe they produce into something as useful or sometime MORE useful then horsepower. And are now affordable too. If fact I was one of those "I'll never buy a 4-stoke" guys.....now I have an awesome CRF450R(4-stroke) dirt bike sitting in my garage while I just think about that 2-stroke I USED to own,lol.

Its just going to take alittle more demand from the public(for reason yet to come) for companies to put more research into our R/C type "gas" engines. I'm still new to this hobby,but I've already learned the same 4-stroke mentality that used to apply to my motocross days are now affecting the r/c "glow engine" hobby. Just look at how many r/c guys guys said that 4-strokes were always gonna be "too heavy" and so on,and so on and how they were a waste..............but yet,every day you see more guys swearing by Saito's or O.S. 4-strokes. And their not all that much more expensive anymore.

They'll be here....just wait! It takes along time to force people to realize that torque is better then raw horsepower.

Quote:

"...racing a 2-stroke is considers a big dissadvantage as 4-strokes have found ways to save alot of weight while turning that massive ..."

Without the following rules I’m afraid the four stroke bikes would be less than competitive.

From the AMA website. (motorcycle):
Nationally recognized amateur motocross classes for 2008 will include:
ï‚· MX Lites (100cc-153cc 2-stroke/151cc-250cc 4-stroke)
ï‚· 125 Class (86cc-125cc 2-stroke only)
ï‚· Motocross (154cc-285cc 2-stroke/251cc-450cc 4-stroke)
ï‚· 250 Class (126cc-250cc 2-stroke only)
ï‚· Open (251cc-500cc 2-stroke/390cc-650cc 4-stroke)

Saito 220 and 120 are now both avaiable as gas engines. Well the 120 real soon.

Yes,it is true that that they generally allow the 4-stroke to have almost double the cc's......but,I guess my point is that with modern technology,they are able to produce 4-strokes with almost twice the displacement,but at closer to the same weight as 2-strokes. This will hopefully allow us to put larger 4-stroke engines into our planes that arent that much heavier then our current 2-strokers and still have the performance we need. I didnt mention it enough,but its as much(actually more) about reducing the weight as increasing the power of new 4 bangers and this is what allows for the bigger cc's that gives us the huge torque.

I love 4 strokes in anything.

BUT.


You will NEVER match a 2 stroke for minimum parts, reliability or replacement costs. They are just too CHEAP to operate. Outboards have lasted for 60 years with no problems in terrible conditions by people who know nothing except pull & go.

NO 4 stroke can match that.

4 cycle outboards are so much better on fuel than 2 cycle ouboards...you will not belive the difference. No 2 cycle smoke when your trolling on a lake and the wind blows the 2 cycle smoke at you...that tends to burn your eyes ect. Been there done that. 4 cycle will take the lead in many powered evertyhing. Even snomobiles are going 4 stroke. Don,t get me wrong...I still love to hear a good hot 2 cycle engine with a tunned pipe. I like the 4 strokes and the pleasant sound they make in most engine powered aplications. Best Regards capt,n

The newest 2 stroke outboards are more than equal to the 4 strokes.

They now have direct computer controlled fuel injection. Combustion is the same with fuel injection. 2 or 4 stroke. They will repeal the 2 stroke ruling because of the fuel injection.

No way our carburator wacker sized engines will pass. I am surprised there are any animals in California due to the farts from animals causing more emissions than cars. Truth..


Stop emissions. Put the brain in a jar with liquid food for it. [X(]

Quote:
"...but,I guess my point is that with modern technology,they are able to produce 4-strokes with almost twice the displacement,but at closer to the same weight as 2-strokes. This will hopefully allow us to put larger 4-stroke engines into our planes that arent that much heavier then our current 2-strokers and still have the performance..."



I think I understand the statement but,what technology do you think they could be using to make a production, say 250cc 4-stroke, come out anywhere near the weight of a current production 125cc 2-stroke?

We know how to make a emission free 2 stroke. They are called Container ship Diesels.

A 2 stroke with fuel injection & seperate crankase lubrcation does it without all the parts of 2 or 4 cam OHV setups. That is strictly for ego racing trips. OOHH AHHH !

Real life can do without OHV engines. There were many different 2 stroke Diesel designs invented in the 1930's thru 2008.

Which engine manufacturer is going to lay out the cost of retooling first for a new design and have everyone else copy it for free around the world.

You first. Not me.

I know four strokes are taking over the Mx market for sure...but I just cant find it in me to sell my kx250 and get a four banger.
The AMA (not the model) will allow a 250 2-stroke to race in the 250 four stroke class next year. A two stroke 250 makes about 10 more horses then the 250 four stroke.( i think I know what class Im racing next year ) Fourstrokes have come a long way though.
A properly tuned (jetted) 2 stroke does not spew out clouds of smoke. in fact, once my bike is warmed up, you can hardly see any smoke from the exhaust.

2, 4 or 20 stroke does not change the fact, if the correct fuel mixture ratio is in the chamber, you WILL get low emissions.

Are you forgetting the fact is 4 cycle engines are a lot better on fue tha 2 cycle engines/ Then the torque is really thre with our model 4 stroke engines. I will not even consider buying a 2 cycle outboard engine again. Capt,n

yes, but not if your comparing apples to apples.....for example, if you take a .46 size glow 2-stroke ( o.s. 46ax etc,etc.) and pair it up with a .46 size 4-stroke, the 2-cycle will wipe its butt with that 4-cycle....hands down.(and swing a bigger prop and more rpms too.)I know the .72-.82 4 banger will swing a bigger prop.. but it should...its almost twice the displacement.
I found that you need a .72-.82(satio) to put out the same amount of power as a .46 sized 2- stroke.I have a .72 satio on one of my profiles and the flying time is about the same on a 6oz. tank between a thundertiger pro .46 and the satio .72

Power wise.

Every up stroke is a power stroke.

Every OTHER stroke is a power stroke.

Who gets to the finish line first if both are running the same rpm's ?

Come on guys. There is just NO beating a two stroke for power to weight ratio. It is not a "Ford/Chevy" thing, it is just the truth. Whether they outlaw two strokes or not, the fact is plain and simple.... for a two stroke and a four stroke of the same displacement, the two stroke will always have more power and less weight than the four stroke.

Once again, it is not a matter of personal preference; it is a matter of simple physics!!

AV8TOR

same here I think this subject is just nonsence to fight about. I dont even want to get started on why.

The day that a 4 stroke can run with a turbo and weight the same as its 2 stroke counterpart (same CC) then this can be discused.

My Elephant Garlic is stronger than yours.

Sometimes the personal use makes the 4 strokes a winner...lot of people pay the extra for them and they sound more like a engine should sound! Capt,n

I agree with the captain, I guess I hang out in the conversion area because getting as much fun for the dollar is my thing, I could drop the cash and buy any high output motor on the market.. but why? I am looking for enjoyment, a little tinkering....not having the highest output motor at the field, ha ha ... I started this thread just to see if anyone knew of developments in the works... I had no idea it would get things so stirred up... You never really know what thread is going to takeoff sometimes... My only complaint about converting a 4 cycle is then I will be back to carrying two types of fuel !!!

I have nothing against four strokes, and I have a Honda 31cc four stroke all converted to go on my SR Batteries Giant Endekker. I think it is going to sound awesome, and be really neat on that plane.

But when I want real power, I know where to go.....

Two Stroke!!

AV8TOR

This is an "old as dirt" thread, but it is the topic I'm wondering about.
What ever happened to the law that all 2-c engines would be outlawed? I guess that was in California. .
Is the law still in the books in CA, or are they coming out with improved 2-c engines?
A couple years ago it seemed that half the trimmers and blowers here in CO were 4-c and now I rarely see any. There were two Yardman 25cc 4-c blowers at Walmart on closeout for $69 and I almost picked one up, but thought I would research it a bit. I went back a couple days later and both were gone.
Over the years I've been hoping to see new improved versions of cheap 4-c engines, but where are they?
I bought a Briggs and Stratton 34cc many years ago and converted it (16x8 at 5500 as I remember), but it is so wimpy I've never put it on anything. I liked the idea of a 4-c conversion and have been watching what comes out but other than an expensive Honda haven't seen anything. And for the price of a converted Honda you can get an NGH 38cc 4-c.

Look here.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cub-Cadet-HB...27657380&rt=nc