I have similar feelings:

Now I have question. Would a reliableetherless fuel really make diesel more popular?

Probably not nowadays in the USA. Glow engines and gasoline ignition engines have the market dominance. But for diesel engine users like many of us here in the forum, we would be interested.

For me Gasoline stinks too much.  Plus it doesn't wash off either you just have to wait for it to wear off over a longer time. Model diesel fuel isn't as bad as the after combustion residue smells a little but the mild kerosene odor isn't bad and it washes off fairly easily with Dawn dishwashing detergent. Of course glow fuel is almost odorless and is not annoying of course.

So some concoction that involves mixing and matching different fuels to achieve a fuel that works is most interesting, but if it stinks too much then it probably won't be  popular.

If this forum leans toward commercialism it is simply because it makes sense to recommend a commercially available fuel that is reliable, readily available whether it is made for Dr. Diesel, made in the UK, comes from Ed Carlson or Mr. Davis. To tell a guy to buy a Diesel engine or a glow engine and convert it, then buy pump Diesel and try 50 different non working combinations, that does not make sense in any way, shape or form. Its best to share information that actually is useful and works.

Hobbsy In total agreement our diesel Buds in Australia where it is very strong, diesel meets, diesel days etc etc have to jump thriugh hoops to get ether to make diesel fuel
I am sure with that strong diesel interest if non ether fuel was a viable option they would have come up with it, we should be very thankful that here we have Davis and Clutton PAW fuel, and of course the Davis 1/2A fro .10 and under the ABC above .10
as a source, open the can fuel and go 100% of the time no issues martin

If I remember one of the major issues with home brewing one's own fuel was the quality of the ingredients they could get.
Pump diesel for example can vary a lot from shipment to shipment. Kerosene has the same problem with big variances from batch to batch.
Our gasoline changes over twice a year in order to have a winter blend and a summer blend, and the differences can affect your engines.
So you might have a batch of DIY fuel that works now, but when you run out and go to get more ingredients, your next batch may not work well at all.
It isn't your formula that was bad, it is the ingredients changed from when you bought it last.

We has summer/winter diesel for improved starting properties in winter. The diesel from pump is mixed with kerosene to reduce problem with wax in diesel filter in winter period.
My father in law in Ukraine told me there in Ukraine/Russia use 10% gasoline in diesel to reduce wax in filter and easier starting in strong winter.

No change with gasoline in out country (Norway) in summer/winter period. Depending on which crude oil was used to destillate the gasoline who need changed with other gasoline for winter in other country as you mentioned.. The crude oil from difference country such as in Mid-east, America, Russia, North-sea has not same stuff and properties..

You are lucky to have access to the fuel ..

But if they disappeared or closed down for the production of diesel fuel for diesel engines model, how would you solve the problem of getting ether when it is your country forbids you to buy ether? Would you die due of lack of fuel?

<div style="text-align: justify">AMB is quite right in suggesting that if there was a non-ether diesel fuel that works as well as an ether-based brew, someone would surely have found it by now. The incentive to find such a fuelhas been there from the outset since ether has always been a bit dodgy to handle and has never been readily available to Joe Average (at least in the places where I've lived). Accordingly, a lot of folks have looked really hard at this issue over a long period of time, beginning in the 1940's when diesels first appeared - this is not a new quest by any means. The fact that over 60 years of looking (by myself, among others) has not identified a non-ether fuel that works as well as an ether-based brew surely tells us something?!?

Having said this, I'm not in any way decrying the value of opngoing research - simply pointing out that people have been pursuing this quest for well over half a century now without notable success. That said, if gkamysz or Keropower come up with an etherless fuel that works as well as ether-based fuel in the average diesel, I'll be the first to switch! Go for it, guys, and good luck - please keep us posted!

Meanwhile, the key issue is - what should we be telling newcomers to diesel operation as mattters stand? I think that Hobbsy has a very good handle on this point - is the diesel cause best served by promoting fuels that don't contain ether but also don't work as well and therefore pose operational problems which are likely in themselves to discourage further diesel activity; or is it better to promote fuels that work predictably and well, even if they do contain ether? I think he's absolutely right - offer useful advice by promoting what works. If anyone comes up with an etherless fuel that works as well, then we'll promote it by all means. Meanwhile, I for one will continue to advise newcomers to diesel operation to stick with ether-based fuels. </div>

Anyone, please find an instance of any of the experimenters recommending a beginner start with homebrew fuel, let alone etherless! I recommend everyone learn how to operate a diesel with purchased fuels. In some parts of the world at certain times there were no other options!

Over and out..................

Greg, Ihear what you are saying mate but beginners by their very nature will accept what they hear read at face value and the more traffic concerning non ether based fuels, the more they will think its acceptable despite <style type="text/css">@font-face { font-family: "ï¼*ï¼³ 明æœ�";}@font-face { font-family: "Cambria Math";}@font-face { font-family: "Cambria";}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: "Cambria","serif"; }.MsoChpDefault { font-family: "Cambria","serif"; }div.WordSection1 { page: WordSection1; }</style><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: smaller;"><span lang="EN-US">knowledgeable replies to the contrary.

Call it propagander and it goes like this -

"Hey guys, I tried XYZ and guess what it works!" And the then the chinese whispers effect takes place and before long it becomes gospel to the uneducated.
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Good argument. Let's delete all references and prohibit future references to home made fuel, engines, or engine components. We don't want beginners thinking any of this is possible. We are now required to buy all equipment and supplies to post in this forum.

Hi Greg,

The point I am trying to make is how beginners even begin to entertain why breaking away from convention is wise, not that the unconventional should be banned or deleted.

You did say "Anyone, please find an instance of any of the experimenters recommending a beginner start with homebrew fuel, let alone etherless!

The 'instance' happens when an experiment has published conclusions, it will be copied somewhere, sometime - thats the curious nature of human beings and there will be new threads with exact same topic in the future regardless of how much we all prove or disprove something.

Oh and by the way, I have never tried etherless fuel on purpose, by accident yes as the ether has evaporated in the past and that has always been a joyless occassion.

We can protect beginners from their own thoughts by making sure nothing enters their minds or we allow the discussion and let them draw their own conclusion however convoluted it might be. I see people reinventing the wheel everyday. A few minutes on Youtube yields plenty of technical entertainment. Those that ask for help will surely receive it, while those that don't will be on their own.

Guys, We need to inject a dose of reality to the conversation here-almost nobody flies small engines anymore, and the few that do will probably have the mechanical sympathy to figure out how to start a diesel and run one successfully by obtaining basic diesel fuel in some way or other. Directions aren't that hard to read and follow, and fuel for those who choose to pursue the challenge is still a phone call away. It's not like a google search won't turn up a proper recipe for diesel fuel for anyone who needs it, and the components are available anywhere.

Just enjoy your engines and stop worrying about other people. Diesels do enough to chase the unwashed away, arguing about them here doesn't help.

Ok all took a look at the fuel site and guess what the same type of trying diiffernt things show up only for methanol based fuels for glow engines, all kinds of stuff tried to replace methanol, E 85 gas, for one that has 5 to10% ethanol , glow fuel of course has methanol based and the main additive is nitromethane from 0% to maybe 25% of course
castor, synthetic, mixture of both for lube again varing percentages
Looks like the bottom line is ether based for Diesel, methanol based for glow . If any maker of commerical fuel that could find ingreidents to lower their cost and increase profits
quite sure they would
regardless of rather you mix your own or buy it thats whats in it most of course , buy premade go fly and enjoy fuel (any) is the least expense of this hobby martin

Hey, I'm a total newbie with diesels, and I read everything I could before I started, and concluded that home brewing was viable for me. Shipping regulations prohibit UPS and the USPS from bringing diesel into my state, so there is no option but home brewing. I suppose I could sneak a gallon or two onto the pallet of glow fuel my club brings every year, but I haven't explored that option yet. Anyway, as long as I can get John Deere starting fluid I'll be fine. If an alternative does show up, I'm in!

RDJeff Welcome aboard What do you gave as a diesel (s) Classics or Davis conversions ?? martin

Good job RD and if you get a chance to slide one off on the Feds, go for it.

Diesels will only really take off if we have a shortage of glow and spark plugs or their materials for me this is frustrating as diesel cost a lot when compared with glow especially my tiny ones the most expensive engine per gram that i own is the Arne Hende special .1cc it was $250 for 10 grams.

Try flying in a country that bans alcohol in all its forms, looking at you Saudi Arabia.

And you may find that any custom made short production run engine is expensive regardless of its capacity.

Cheers.

Thanks Martin,

all of mine are classic diesels.

OK Cub .049
D-C Sabre 1.49
MK-17
MVVS 1.5
MARZ 2.5
PAW .29 C/L
PAW.40 R/C

I think sneak was the wrong word! I meant to legally incorporate a gallon or two into the club's order of glow fuel. Somehow...

RD WITH THAT ASSORTMENT YOU DO NOT QUALIFY AS A NEWBIE BEST MARTIN

Oh yeah, still a newbie! I've only flown the PAW .29 four times, and the PAW .40 twice. None of the others have flown yet.

I have pics of most of my model diesel engines posted here:
http://s248.photobucket.com/albums/g...iesel_Engines/
I might have missed taking pics of a few though.