Is there any real reason not to store diesel fuel in a leftover glow fuel plastic jug instead of a metal can? My cans of DDD fuel are dented and staring to rust.

Max

Not really, but there are caveats though.
First the glow fuel plastic jug may dissolve with model diesel fuel in it.So you need to test it first. Say pour in some gasoline and let it sit of a few days and see if it melts on you.
Next the plastic jugs tend to be more fragile than metal containers. I have had plastic jugs start to leak along the bottom seam or mold marks on them.
Then the plastic cap jugs may or may not seal as well as the metal capped cans. So you need to check that more carefully. You sometimes see this at the hobby shop too where a plastic jug has sprung a leak on the shelf.
But if the plastic jug holds up OK and doesn't melt and seals well, then yeah you can use it.

The problem is the ether doesn't want to stay in the container, it wants to evaporate and get out. So it is hard to keep it in.

another thread on it here:   http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1226065

Eric Clutton sells a plastic squeeze bottle for around $10 that has a brass metal valve on the end, probably 8-10oz. I filled it several months ago and the ether content is still high enough to hand start my Schlosser .25cc. These are really nice when you want to just pull an engine off your shelf and run it a bit for fun but not have to mess with the whole fuel can routine.

Highly recommended-I use one for my Bug-Out-Bag to store alcohol for my stove, it gets smashed and beat up a lot and has never leaked.

Ah ... the Alton "Valve Spout" fuel bottle. The Rolls Royce of fuel bottles.

I had one as a wee nipper and I am ordering another from the good Mr Clutton. Top piece of kit.

That said, the instructions with all PAW engines strongly caution against storing diesel fuel in any form of plastic container for any length of time, for good reason.

OK All I use empty metal Qt cans that acetone laquerer thinner and alcohol comes in from the hardware store, then sucked up with a black rubber fueling squeeze syringe with a piece of fuel line attached to draw up and fuel the tanks miminal ether loss if top screwed on tight on can martin
By the way when I was buying the fuel in the 1 gallon cans I just poured into the qt cans to take to the field
the Davis fuel ABC and 1/2A now comes in Qt cans so no re-pours needed quite handy no mess no ether loss KISS PRINCIPAL

MY POWERMASTER 20/20 BLEND YS FORMULA GLOW FUEL IS PACKAGED IN A GALLON METAL CAN NOT PLASTIC

OK according to some references on the internet. "<span class="st">Use metal cans when storing diethyl ethers. The Iron in the container inhibits the formation of peroxides." But you can use small plastic containers say less than 2 to 4 ounces for immediate usage though. Peroxide crystals forming on and around the filler cap become quite explosive when disturbed.
So that explains why everyone is using metal cans then. Also avoid freezing the container of ether as it can cause peroxides to precipitate out of the solution too. But if the ether is mixed with oil and kerosene then this shouldn't happen so easily.

ref:
</span><span class="st">http://</span><span class="st">www.marshall.edu/safety/chemical/</span><span class="st">management_of_peroxide-forming_chemicals.pdf</span>
<span class="st">

</span>

Is there a way to fuel from my metal Qt tin without pouring into a squeeze bottle and loosing ether???

Yep, use a syringe with a viton 'O' ring around the plunger.

But I use a squeeze bottle with no problems, simply squeeze the bottle, invert and immerse the tubing on the end of the bottle into the fuel and draw up only what you need.
Quickly reseal you fuel can and do not be tempted to decanter the unused fuel fron your squeeze bottle back into your main can.

A small help is to ensure that your inverted squeeze bottle's top is a contact fit over your fuel cans opening, that way very little ether can escape.
This in effect means that the main fuel can must have a small opening and your squeeze bottle must have a reasonable fit against it.

P.S. Doesn't Davis Diesel sell a small fuel pump bulb though?
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Earlwb and the rest of the group back in 1949-1950 when I was in high school Pop was a pharmacist he got medical ether USP the stuff used in the OR for anesthia it came in small metal containers
made I think by Merck the top was sealed under the cap with a metal disc it appeared they had a small chunk of copper in the can to prevent peroxides , he would punch the
top and mix with mineral oil for my drone 29 martin
my quess is they did not want to take a chance on peroxide formation which could be irritating to the lungs if inhaled

Thanks for the info! Now I am afraid to open the container I put the stuff in. I don't want to blow up from peroxide formation.

Fiery,
Does PAW give any rationale for not storing the fuel in plastic?

Max

Just this "<font size="2" face="Times,Times New Roman">Never allow fuel to stand open, to be mixed, or to be left in a plastic container for longer than 2 hours, as it can ruin the fuel. Keep fuel in a tightly closed metal can.</font>"

It relates it to 'standing in the open,' and my guess is that the ether permeates through most plastics, that and since most plastic containers are semi transparent, sunlight can get to it very quickly.

Most people I know buy their ether in 2.5 Litre "Winchester" dark brown (UV resistant) chemical bottles with proper chemical Industry standard plastic sealing caps. They store their fuel in them as well, but tend to only mix what they need on the day. That way the fuel is always fresh.

Fuel stored in metal tins seems to cause rust blooms after a while.

I find that over a period of months glow fuel damages the plastic fuel containers as well. Someone said that it leaches out the plasticisers or something.

Ray

Most recently I've been using [link=http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/stoves/stove-accessories/msr-fuel-bottles/product]MSR camp fuel bottles[/link].

Use glass bottles with metal screw caps with a seal inside. I've used Brandy, Whisky or Gin bottles for years. Marked where the fuel is to check for any migration out of it.......has always been nil, then store in a cool place. Diesel or glo fuel, makes no difference, and they cost nil after you have used what was inside.
I do rinse them in water and let them dry well before fuel goes in.

Gossie you have to pay for the original contents but enjoyable martin

I think I have a Cointreau bottle here that might be just the thing I need! About a pint, brown glass and a screw top!

I think I'll finish it off tonight!
Max

The attached pic shows a 2.5 Litre Winchester bottle. I believe that they're called "Boston bottle" in the US. Our solvent ether comes in these and most diesel users round the New South Wales area use them to store their diesel fuel.

The bottles are brown to limit the UV exposure of the contents. I've never heard of any concern about the formation of peroxides but you can buy 20 Litre metal tins of ether as well and mention of this may be in the MSDS for them.

A few years ago I bought six of these bottles at a local bottle supplier with twelve spare plastic caps for $50. The bottles seal very well and I've never heard anyone complain about leakage or evaporation problems.

Ray

Bad idea to use plastic for diesel fuel. I think that plastic fuel containers are made of polyethylene. This site: http://www.sunwestcontainer.com/pdf/...patibility.pdf
shows that polyethylene might be adversely effected by both ether and kerosene. In my lab we had some polyethlene bottles for acetone-supposedly compatible. After a few weeks they split. You sure don't want to wind up with a gallon of diesel fuel drained on your shop floor! Chemically glass is good untill you drop it. I've been using 1 quart steel lacquer containers and further dividing the fuel as needed into 1 pint metal cans available from McMaster Carr. I have been making a gasket from lead tape and using it to seal the container.