OK guys,

I have a half gallon of old diesel fuel in a plastic jug. I'm pretty sure that most of the ether is gone, but not positive. I think the kero and castor are all that's left. Should I just let it sit open for a few days and assume the ether is gone and then add what I need to make it usable? Does all of the ether go away from evaporation if left open? Got plenty of John Deere starter fluid for rejuvenation, What say ye?

Max

Evaporate a small measured sample in a graduated container, and see how much volume is lost in a few days.

Should only take a few days in this warm weather, and you can pretty much smell the sample to tell when the majority of the Ether is gone.

The Kerosene and Castor will likely separate as well shortly after the Ether is gone.

Well seeing that the Ether is the most expensive ingredient, why not just mix up a fresh batch of fuel and throw the old stuff out?


An airtight tin or a bottle will always be a better storage container than a plastic jug.

Good point, but getting decent castor is tough. I have to mail order the Sig stuff. Probably a good idea though.

Max

MAX You can get castor oil at your local drug store pure USP grade is what you want, not the flavored stuff martin

2nd choice no fuss solution Davis fuel from great planes or Davis direct great planes has the ABC mix if you need 1/2A from Davis

whoops that tower hobby on the ABC mix

Yes.

Rather than throw the old fuel out consider adding more ether.
Make up a small mix of 80% ether and 20% castor.
Add a portion of this to a known volume of old fuel.
You will not be diluting the oil content below 20%.
Keep adding the fresh portion until the old/new mix starts to run ok.
Even if you have to add half and half, you will still end up with a mix of about 40% ether (assuming the old mix had none left).

I'm guessing that the fuel is DDD ABC mix?

Lets say it is.

If you could measure the mass of 100ml of the suspect fuel at say 20 Degrees Celsius, then we may be able to get someone else to measure the Mass of 100 ml of fresh DDD fuel at 20 Degrees Celsius. Measuring at 25 Degrees C would be just as useful provided that both fuel Temperatures are the same.

If the Masses are different then we can confidently say that some of the Diethyl Ether has evaporated. We can then easily work out a rough approximation of what Volume of Ether may need to be added from it's Specific Gravity.

If a plastic container of diesel fuel is loosing Ether then I'd be inclined to think that both the remaining Kero, Castor, and Ignition Improver would be degraded as well. Would you leave a container of Kero exposed to the air? Same with Castor. I wouldn't, I'd expect both to go off.

But you initially purchase kero and castor in plastic containers anyway so I am struggling to see your point about further degradation of those in said plastic containers.
(Does the ether combine with the kero and oil enough to be permeated along with it through plastic?)

IPN, well yeah.

For me there are too many variables (apart from the science experiment bit) to give any other answer than "when in doubt, chuck it out," and only premix what you intend to use straight away.

Thanks.

I wouldn't hesitate to pour suspect diesel fuel on the weeds in the garden. It's just that our North American friends seem to want to persist with rejuvenating it.

I'm also dubious about the notion that fuel looses it's ether in storage and needs constant topping up. In our vibrant local diesel community the phenomenon is completely unreported.

But then we don't have much above a Litre of mixed fuel at any time.

I'd really like someone to weight some suspect stuff so we could test the theory.

Castor mixed in fuel (or otherwise) seems fairly vulnerable to drops in air temperature. It seems to develop white flakes if it's allowed to drop to single figure temperature. It can also go rancid over time. Perhaps this explains the flakes?

It's also said that the top half of a 5 Litre container of Castrol M is better than the bottom.

There's so many questions raised by a simple situation.

Gazimoto totally agree too many variables and weed killer it should be not worth the time or chance for a few dollars worth of old fuel regards martin

I have done it weed killer along the fence

I only have 5 litres of Castrol M and so I am left wondering if its the better or worst half?

As to the flaking of castor, I thought that the cause of this WAS the ether loss and since the ether is the bond between the mineral kero and the organic castor it begins to settle out and coagulate into 'flakes.'

Thanks Gaz. (Tongue in cheek.)

Kero is a soup of Hydrocarbon molecules and so it's organic as well.

I use the whole of the Castrol M container of oil regardless of whether it's the top or bottom half. I'm not going to waste $40 worth of oil.

It's a beautiful spring day here in the Hunter region, I'm off to fly my Oliver powered Peacemaker this arvo. :-)

Update. I threw it out and mixed up a new batch. Wife thinks some dog must have gotten into the yard and pissed on the grass in the back.

Max

Old diesel fuel, as well as being a great weed killer, is also a terrific fire lighter. Half a cup and away we go!

Could have sworn that Kerosene was mineral based - as in mineral Turps, but I was wrong.

Thanks for the correction Ray.

P.S. I see that liquid paraffin is termed 'mineral' oil whereas paraffin is not - very confusing!

See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerosene

Kerosene is usually called paraffin in the UK, Ireland, Southeast Asia and South Africa.

[h=2]Properties[/h] Kerosene, a thin, clear liquid formed from hydrocarbons, with a density of 0.78–0.81 g/cm[SUP]3[/SUP], is obtained from the fractional distillation of petroleum between 150 °C and 275 °C, resulting in a mixture of carbon chains that typically contain between 6 and 16 carbon atoms per molecule.[SUP][8][/SUP]
Regardless of the crude oil source or processing history, the major components of all kerosenes are branched and straight chain alkanes and naphthenes (cycloalkanes), which normally account for at least 70% by volume. Aromatic hydrocarbons in this boiling range, such as alkylbenzenes (single ring) and alkylnaphthalenes (double ring) do not normally exceed 25% by volume of kerosene streams. Olefins are usually not present at more than 5% by volume.[SUP][9][/SUP]
The flash point of kerosene is between 37 and 65 °C (100 and 150 °F), and its autoignition temperature is 220 °C (428 °F).[SUP][10][/SUP] The pour point of kerosene depends on grade, with commercial aviation fuel standardized at −47 °C (−53 °F).