While not wanting to upset, or denigrate any one or thing, one must be quite careful when reading these threads. For example, the 'downwash' illustration above, showing a nozzle squirting a fluid over the tilted wing sections. Not quite what happens in the real world, where all the air, above, below and all around, is moving. The wing AOA too, is above that achievable by our model sections. If a similar illustration could be done, with wing angles that modellers can use, say a nice semi-symmetric (cambered) section between 0 and 6 deg AOA, with the flow all round, and well above and below, perhaps then the result would be more convincing. As it is it is it is an interesting picture of a very artificial situation. Similarly, the Fokker picture with the nice coloured lines is also pretty misleading. Perhaps a proper side view with the wing chord line drawn, and not the fuselage datum, would then illustrate that the airplane is rigged no differently than any other, and certainly no proof that Anthony knew about the 'downwash'. As those knowledgeable of the real one will know, it needs a hefty forward push at cruising speed to prevent climbing, and was often flown with a bungee attached to the stick to prevent the pilot getting too tired on long flights. Strange then, that Mr. Fokker, knowing about 'downwash', didn't take its effects into account during the design process, or add a trim tab to assist the pilot...
I will say no more.
Evan, WB #12.

Gents.

Downwash,

Before continue with the Simla a short note about the Fokker, D.VII as example. See picture 1.
The incidence of the stab of the D.VII is about 4 degrees when compare with the neutral line of the fuselage.

There are a few possibilities:

1 The plane has an attitude as shown in picture 2 and does fly with a negative incidence of the wings.
2 The plane has a lifting stabilizer with symmetrical airfoil and an AOA of 4 degrees.
3 The downwash of the wings is about 5 degrees, so the real effective incidence of the stab is about 1 degrees negative.

We are all free to vote. My choice is possibility 3.

Ask yourself a question: What would happen when Anthony did change the incidence of the stabilizer in 0 degrees?

The Fokker DVII is one of the most successful planes of WW1, the picture is of a D.VII in Red Russian service.
Anthony not only did know how to built them, no also selling was his specialty.
How about the Taurus?
Yes, that’s right the Russian also did know the Taurus some years later.

Next post more about the downwash of the Simla.
So no built thread but very Interesting to know.

Cees

Gents,

In the past, 1910 , it was possible to show the airflow over the wing as we did show on the picture of the wind tunnel. I show the picture again.
I did look for the text with that picture:

: The smoke, he explains, is produced by blowing air over hydrochloric acid, the acid-laced air then being passed over the surface of a strong solution of ammonium hydrate. The resulting dense white smoke is then passed through an array of fine capillary tubes upstream of the test model.

For the Simla we will use the Modis System to investigate the airflow.

I am preparing a post about the graph of the RAF 6 (modified), downwash of 1918, the period of the Fokker planes. It is of bad quality so it has to be a little “updated” to make it readable.
It gives an impression what already was known in that period.
Believe me, the planes did not fall of the air as people often think, they have to be designed with a lot of research just as the Taurusses of Ed.

Cees

Gents, as promised

92 years ago, 1918, so nearly twice as old as the Oldest Taurus on Earth.

An impression of wind tunnel investigation of downwash of the RAF 6 (modified) airfoil.
Positions of measurements we can read in the graph, I also draw these above the graph in the matrix with the red dots.
Also I added some text in the graph to make the axes better readable.

Have attention for the fact the downwash of 2 degrees is still visible after a distance of 5 wing chords, here the graph stops but downwash will continue.
All has to do with the “second law”!

If you find other information always double check before accept the information. If no positive ignore.
Example, clark Y, zero lift angle?, Post 12 : http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8319781
( pimmnz if you still have that document, can you show the content.)


Clark Y and RAF 6 (modified) are equivalent!.

In a next post the down wash transmitter?

Cees

Gents,

Downwash of the Simla?

Study picture of a downwash transmitter mounted on the LE of the stab of the Simla, next year.
for who is interested.

Dual pitot tube, dynamic pressure and static pressure port as normally.
The other two ports (1 and 2) for example under and angle of 45 degrees (to investigate). The pressure of these two ports is depending of the angle of attack but because the difference between these two pressure ports is also speed related I do need a second measurement to compare with and calculate a ratio and relationship. So speed.

The special amplifier is needed to generate a signal in “degrees” to Modis.

In several steps I want to try if this system can be used. A second method can be a rotating vane but damping can be a problem of that method.

Cees

Gents, downwash!

The instrument is in development.

In my crusade for the facts I have an interesting situation to show again in the near future.
With that the reconstruction of an important part of classic pattern flying history is also a fact again.

I don’t show you his name, but Ed did know him and he is at least as important to me.
Tell me if you recognize him and I will show you the facts.

Of course it is related to the Oldest Taurus on Earth, but also Orion and Simla.

Cees

Gents,

Orion, Taurus and Simla history reconstruction workshop.

The man on the picture?

It is difficult, when you do not have a name or a date and you cannot Google on it.
I can give some information in steps. Did make a step plan for that.

Do you still remember this step by step program in the past about the “mixed up Tauruses”?
See: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=7745640
If you and others are interested to go with me step-by step trough the information, pictures and film I can let you try prove yourself that I am right.
I go through each step and wait for feed back of each of you after the step, and then the follow step we will do.
Taurus Flyer


The first information step is a similarity:
De man on the picture of post 806 was involved on (in?) a special way with the planes of real dimensions especially the models I did use as example of the subject downwash I did tell about, the Fokker’s of WW1.
Ed also did make a study of the real airplanes in the past as we all know.

Cees

Gents,

The man on the picture?


The second information step is a difference:
De man on the picture of post 806 was involved on (in?) a special way with the planes of real dimensions.
While Ed was a machinist (so engine specialist!) and did have to do all research with the Orion and Taurusses while real flying the planes our man of the picture was aerodynamic specialist and for that reason also familiar with the wind tunnel.
In the future you will be surprised to hear the location of that wind tunnel.
(Replay: Ed also did make a study of the real airplanes in the past as we all know.)

Cees


Edit, a wind tunnel isn't always needed to show important details!

Gents,

The man on the picture? Are there more similarities?
Yes our man was also a world champion modeler in the past, just Ed was in 1960, so he did show the world you have to be a specialist to develop a winner.

Cees

Gents, for who is interested.

Ed and the Orion, a picture of the past
This picture I did not show before in the threads.
And the man on the black and white picture? Yes, he was also there.

Cees

Gents,

I was FAI pattern pilot in the past. That was the reason my activities were FAI related. Only the qualities of Ed Kazmirski were a highlight for me when I did make a study of his history. This was my reason to show you the man on the picture too, both important for the history of modeling.

Last point to show were the differences:

Our man of the black and white picture was the most important man Ed did beat in the past (I think) and thát was a difference in place, number one Ed number two Gustav. Gustav?

Yes, see for Gustav Sämann
http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/f1/wakefield/1955

Gustav’s father was fighter pilot in WW1 (Fokker?), he himself did work for Messerschmitt as an aerodynamic specialist (wind tunnel?) Was Wakefield Champion of a worldwide organized event in 1955. Ypu can read the Wakefield story in the FAI document. So believe me, he did know all about aerodynamics.

For Ed, I did look in the Hall of Fame of the AMA.

http://www.modelaircraft.org/museum/hoflist.aspx

In February 2009 I did have contact about the nomination of Ed but for me as an individual it is too complicated, I am no AMA member either.
If it is still possible and there are members who want to take care of that, please do. For me it is still inexplicable why I do not read his name in the Hall of Fame of the AMA!


EROPEAN ATTENTION 1960 YEAR OF THE ORION

It is 50 years ago the first World Championships Pattern were organized in Zurich Switzerland location Dübendorf.
Ed became world champion on this first organized World Pattern contest,

The anniversary was a big event on 21 August 2010 and the replicas of the oldies were there too. I am grateful the people of Dübendorf do show a lot of very nice pictures of that event. See:
http://www.telesys.ch/index.php?cat=33

The pictures I show are of the pilots of place one, two and three of 1960. The picture of Gustav is of 1962 England I am searching for a picture of 1960.
Place numbe three was for Karl Heinz Stegmaier.

Cees

Ray,

Thanks. Can you tell us what was written near the pictures and from which magazine the pictures are copied, that is important for me to archive and to prevent we make faults.
"Ovomatine" is the key for me these are original of the World Championships of 1960.

I also mis the data of this picture, the second one on the right side:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=7704211

Do you know from which magazine (year and date) you did copy the picture and what was written in the magazine?

Thanks Cees

Ray,

Did you read my questions and do you have additional information?.

Post 812 IS your post number 1000 on RCUniverse, at least it has to be complete don’t you think so!

Next post about the first results of the hemispherical flow direction sensor for the Simla in experimental version.

Cees

Gents,
I did find additional information about the first World Championships.
We see the Orion, but also the planes of Harold DeBolt and Bob Dunham I think.

Cees

Gents,

For the Simla research is still going on, there are several AOA sensors to use, important is pressure difference related to angle difference, so sensitivity.
I am not really happy with sensor 2 so maybe there are better models. All these sensor models already are used in the past for several applications, only point for me is, calibration for low speed so generate accurate data.

Also in development the electronics, see proposal study control scheme picture 2, The Modis has 6 channels to log and the controller will have more possibilities when compare with the Top Flite Taurus. For example a second controller for RPM so better linear power response.
All parts above the green line are standard radio parts, below the line is added for research, completely functional separated and electrical supplied for safety. A lot to do for April/May next year.


Cees

Gents, a short note,

Gustav Sämann, post 806, 811 and 812 and a new thread, Graupner Caravelle kit for sale in Germany.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10172207

Research for an effective and accurate downwash measurement instrument is still going on.

For reconstruction of the Simla there is a lot information still available of that period and of course I also do have information of the Caravelle.
The Caravelle is of the period of the Orion and the Taurus, a few years later Ed did design the Simla, so this also was known by Ed of course.

Look at the picture; zero down thrust and zero decalage : Mehrachs Flug für Experten, so a “Hot Ship” and not for the “Man in the street”.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9971240

Second picture, I did show the FAI page of Gustav Sämann before, this is a picture of the Sämann Pokal
IMO In Europe the world champs of model airplane flying are more respectful honored than in the USA, I did show my questions about the AMA Hall of Fame before and have to think about the Lufthansa again!

More to come.

Cees

Gents,

For who is interested, OP-AMPS of the Simla a little up-date.

Bob Widlar, (Fairchild Semiconductor) was the inventor of the first monolithic (single chip) operational amplifier in 1963 so just in time for the
Simla.

For the AOA/downwash measurement of the Simla I am designing some circuits now with these op-amps and a part of these circuits have to calculate so: multiplying, root extracting, dividing, summation or extracting etc.

Calculation with operational amplifiers is used in the past in industrial automation for a long time.

To show an example of this “forgotten” calculation method, a divider and “curve compensation” amplifier. (Simplified circuit)

Task of the circuit:
One quadrant calculation of the ratio between the differential pressure of the AOA sensor and the differential pressure of the pitot tube.
After the calculation a linearization amplifier to have the right relationship between degrees and output voltage.
V1 output is the logarithm of pitot pressure difference
V2 output is the logarithm of AOA pressure difference
V3 output is the output of V2 minus output V1 (extracting thr dividing
V4 antilog amplifier to calculate the output, is AOA pressure diff/ pitot pressure diff.
V5 curve compensation and output amplifier.

Profit of the method: no software, high resolution (endless!), easy to manipulate and change, basic components (four op-amps in one chip), low power consumption. etc.

Of course there are some disadvantages, but this is my hobby so I forget them!!

More to make.

Cees

Gents, some detail engineering of the Simla. construction is going on.

For coupling of the strip ailerons with the servo, mounted in the centre section of the fuselage, I will use the same system that was used for normal (barn door) ailerons, 2 90 degrees levers, ratio in/out 1/1, mounted in the wings near the root .

This design fits exact within the picture we did see in the magazine of that period, see insert.

The editor did write about a “slip in” square tubing coupling (with rotating shaft?). I doubt this was used, I will not do to prevent too much play. The outside dimensions of my couplings will be square to make the picture complete. The blue part is the lever, custom made with high quality, low friction plain bearings. All connections are pushrods.

I can mount and remove the mechanics, for maintenance and to adjust differential, after the wing is built.

Cees

Gents,

Research and development is interesting for me and in the Netherlands we do not fly “classic pattern contests”, so why not? Nothing to argue about only searching for data and facts.
It also has to do with my Simla Construction and Flying schedule with already al lot of remarkable facts. (CP!)

R & D.

For the MODIS I do need an instrument to measure for me the flight level during the test flights of the Simla, why?
An important test for example will be the moment of stall and AOA of the Simla on that moment. Seeing the flight level on the graph will make it an easy job (I hope!).
It all has to do with tail cone angle, landing gear dimensions, attitude of the plane on the ground and incidences of wings and stabilizer.
Interesting for me for measuring quantities is using the old instrumentation methods again for the “Old Simla” and not “modern pressure transducer stuff”. My disadvantage? 48 grams of added weight. My radio system is much lighter than the systems of the past so I don’t think that’s a problem.

On the picture :
1 Anaroid chamber (Blaise Pascal , 1623 – 1662) of an old barometer
2 Balance weight of measuring system to eliminate G-forces.
3 capacitors to locate the position of the chamber
4 electronic circuit to convert capacitor position to output voltage.

Picture 2 An anaroid flight level registration system (recorder) as was used in the past (1922) but also still by myself in gliders (1976) for registration of flight level.

I already did use my instrument in an experimental FPV plane and still can show you a video made of the (All Persons View) monitor during one of the test flights see: http://www.rcuvideos.com/video/TeletubeTest-wmv
During this flight the real time flight level was shown on the monitor on the ground (in steps left side) by LEDS in front of the video camera in the plane. Also climbing and rate of sink (vario) was visible (on the right side) this way. For the vario signal the differential of the output signal of the instrument was used combined with some comparators and LEDS.

Before using the system in the Simla I will make a unit/container to mount on the bottom of the Taurus. I already did make some plans and preparations for that, mounting nuts etc. Planning to measure AOA, Speed, flight level, vario, engine RPM, etc of the Taurus first to test the system.

More to come
Cees

Gents,
Back to the future. 50 years ago.
A short post added to post 612 to make this post complete.
Picture with the text, Gustav and Mrs Samann.
Also the list with results of the first World Championships in Dubendorf.
Third picture, we did see this picture before, Ed the winner.
Cees

Gents,

It is still interesting to search for data and (wait for) pictures I see.

In Ed Kazmirski’s Taurus thread post 2178 we see for the first time a second picture of the “Flop” by RFJ.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10215413

In my post 730 of this thread I did show this “Flop” also compared with the Blue Angel design development. See the first picture of that post.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9751816

Ed did write about this Taurus in article “The Champ Chats.” Radio Control Models and Electronics, October 1962. See first picture.
This model was widely known already only not commercial attractive, no success!
My explanation? Switch over from tail dragger to tricycle plane, see my post!
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=7892253

More to come, Cees.

Gents,

Redesign and reconstruction of the Oldest Taurus on Earth and for a moment:

“Back to the future.”

Of the first Taurus try-out of Ed Kazmirski the “Flop” I do have two pictures now and both of different angles so, for me it is possible to make a closer study of the Flop, interesting.
To use the second picture it was needed to do some photo reconstructing.
After that I did draw the lines connected with the vanishing points of the model. These point are far outside the pictures. (To visit these point I normally travel by public transport but too much snow in the Netherlands now, no busses LOL)

So, to add more data in the Taurus Construction and Flying Schedule after a period I do have important data of the older plane “Flop”, before the “Oldest Taurus on Earth”, and the younger plane after, the “Simla” and that makes me happy. Happy New Year?

Did I find already some interesting facts?
Yes, and that often happens when I take a close look at the details when I reconstruct a photo.

After I do have made the calculations the data will be stored in the archive for the future, directory: Flop

On top of the list is still building of the Simla only I do have a dust free period now.

More to Come
Merry to Christmas.
Hanna en Cees

It is not possible to upload pictures now. I'll try it later!

Gents,


Attempt to upload the picture in the right dimensions.

Cees

So this is actually the oldest Taurus ?