On a fairly well trimmed Blade CP (LHS) - I just got a 20A Titan ESC and a HDX Brushless from ebay, with powerzone board. While flying it seems very jerky and wants to fly into the ground even when it's lifting off the ground kinda up down up down, then up, up, up, then down hard about a foot. Idle up is not on just regular mode. Blades seem to be fine as mid stick in idle is is looking pretty flat. It almost looks like the servo wires are getting interference and lowering, kinda my best guess at this point.

As far as I can tell nothing seems wrong. Let me tell you HOLY COW the brushless will mess you up if you are a newbie. I think I have too high a pinion T count for the blade CP and will probably down grade this when I get a chance to hit the LHS.

DrunkYoda,

The brushless is no comparison to the brushed motors.. Brushless has a ton of power... The pinion should be an 8 tooth gear, 9 is a little much, but won't cause the problems you're having...

You're more than likely getting the interference from the ESC,, you want to keep the ESC away from the controller.. See attached piture. I had the exact same problem when I went brushless and mounted the ESC on top of the Receiver.. Moved it back to the rear and Zip Tied to the landing gear..

Picture 1: ESC mounted on 3n1 controller,,, had your exact problem.
Picture 2: ESC mounted on rear of skids,,, no more problems. You will have to add about 3 inches of wire to the ESC to reach back that far.

Dave / Choppersrule
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________

i'd think you'd better lube the head with some silicon spray, those stuff used in car shocks, i've had similar symptoms after rebuilds and after the oil soaks in, it's all good. run it up to speed without lift off for 20sec or so after you've put silicon oil on just to spread it out and stuff.

I moved the ESC back to the tail no help, I checked the pinion, it's an 11!!!! [X(]

I think I might just have too much head speed??? Regardless this needs to be fixed before I go too much further. I don't think the heli can handle that much head speed. Any other ideas? I've been flying fine with the head greased up , don't think it's that, could be though....

Anybody have an idea on this? Would too much head speed be causing these issues?

Maybe the extra force from the higher head speed and extra torque is overloading the servo's, or maybe the motor is drawing so much electricity it's giving bad power to the servo's or something. You could check how hot the pack is... if it's really warm/hot then that might be the problem, and it would be more likely if the pack is old and you are getting short flight times on it. I dunno how it would factor in big picture overall though....

I guess I forgot to mention how unlikely this is [8D]

I kinda had a similar problem when I went to brushless. Took me FOREVER to figure out what it was. The main shaft retaining collar must be set for no play. My CPP came out of the box with play, so I thought this was normal. I guess with the stock motor I didn't notice it. But with the brushless w/ 9t it seems to have at least twice the headspeed, so i think my problem then showed itself.

Yeah I think I went from break your finger speed (blade wise) to cut off finger speed.
LOL

what kv is the motor? kyle has ran the eflight park370 4100kv with 11t, and it was fine. make sure all your links are ok though, i once had a link popped off, it wasn't pretty, however, i landed it due to it being upright in the first place. i'd say again, lube your head, with higher headspeed, the centrigue force will be higher, and there's a big possibility that the hub and the rotor head (where it slides up and down) will bind due to the higher torque (hub want's to spin but head doesn't due to drag of blades). this will make the up and down motion very unsmooth. the servos should be ok, adn i doubt it's drawing too much current and didn't left any for the servos.

Well I've got a few things to think about. What do you guys think about tightness on the gear/pinion. should it be "free flowing" like it will spin freely my would not spin freely before and I think that was part of the issue too.

I went to the LHS to pick up an 8t ugh no dice, it seems mr noob here is the first one in their shop to go brushless on a heli. They've got all kinds of brushless plane schtuff. ANyways I orderd off of Helidirect where I got my esc/BL should be here in a few days.

The battery is WAY hot when I take it out, not burn you hands, but not comfortable either.

Chopper I will do the lubing, hopefully it helps. I've got a few days to wait now on my 8t-11t set to arrive. (I mean at $2 a piece oh well, you know rather have em, than have to order.) I'll see if I can find the stuff you recommend. Oh and it's the HDX300 upgrade kit from helidirect so I think its the 3800kv

Good idea on buying all the pinions at one time. then you can experiment and see which one will work the best for you.

Can you guess about how many degrees the pack is? Like closer to 100F, or more like 130 or 140?

The pinion should not be too tight, but also not too loose. A good gauge is a 20lb peice of copy paper. Slide that between your main motor and the main gear, and push the motor tight against it (you don't have to push it so there is no space between the paper and the gears or anything) tighten down the motor where it is. You shouldn't have alot of gear noise after you get done, if there is too much, then it is either too tight or too loose.

at 3800kV i'd say a 9T or 10T for 3D, and an 8T for sport or training.

i'm not 100% sure, but i think your problem could be caused by the following: 1) you're not used to the extra pitch sensitivity so you're moving the stick more than you need to to maintain altitude, 2) you have excessive slop in the mechanics, or 3) your rx or antenna are too close to high current.

1 & 3 are easy to understand & fix. if it's #1, usually some expo fixes the problem. if you don't have expo, just try taking it slower and feeling it out before you slam on the gas. if it's #3, i've seen at least 5 clear cut cases where glitches resulted from the installation of the rx and/or antennae within 1/2" of high current devices & wires. take care to keep the rx & antennae at least 1/2" clear of any high current (escs, battery, battery wires, & motor wires). #2 is more complicated; read below for further understanding.

higher headspeeds can in fact cause problems with mechanical slop, because higher headspeeds give more of what i call "pitch sensitivity". to explain what i mean by pitch sensitivity; consider the blades are traveling faster at higher headspeeds, so it takes less angle of attack to create the same lift. alternatively with the same angle of attack, higher headspeeds create more lift. now say you have 5deg of slop in the head, from say a loose collar for example. with normal headspeeds, when the blades jumped from 0 to 5deg, the resulting jump/drop in lift was easily manageable. with higher headspeeds, when the blades jump between 0 and 5 deg you get much larger jumps/drops in lift, resulting in a difficult to handle heli. basically, when you run higher headspeeds it becomes more critical to get everything perfect & slop free.

i won't go in to detail how to remove slop unless you know slop is the problem (it's hard to describe my process of hunting for slop, would take another long post). to measure slop you can check your slop by folding a blade back & holding it still, then move the flybar. the angle that the flybar moves is your total slop for that blade. a healthy blade cp pro should have no more than 2-3deg slop. i've seen 10deg of slop fly on stock cp2's, but it's no fun and definitely isn't what you want for a brushless pro.

cheers
-kev

[edit: i forgot to mention, you should have a looser gearmesh. the rotor should spin freely, only being slowed by the cogging of the motor's magnets. looser is always better than tight; that's what i always tell newbie pinion setters. also, i forgot to mention the bell hiller arms. make sure they're not too tight or loose. tighten them up, then back the screw out just until there's no binding, but not so far that they move around a lot.]

OK I got my 8-11T pinions now and immediately went for ease.

The 8T pinion works great. I had to cut out some of the stock mount gear to push the Teeth closer to the main gear.

One issue left.

How close can I get to the forward servo arm? I've got maybe 2 thick sheets of paper width between the outrunner and the servo arm/metal sticking through of the pitch arm.

Fly's great though guys, you gotta try this. No more burnt up main motors. 11T was WAAAAAY too much for this lightweight CP.

I think I posted my config above, but I'll post it again so you don't have to go back through the thread:

Blade CP
Powerzone board (I cut the red wire off my old 11T (the old nimh one we all got with it) and spliced the black to the black powerzone board's cable, way easy)
Hyperion 20A BL ESC (had to solder the bullet ends on, pretty dangerous since you need to heat up the esc wires, just fyi, if you're a solder expert no big deal, I however am not.
HDX300 3800Kv BL motor (ebay model for 78.50 with brushless and powerzone, no Sonic ESC in stock changed to Hyperion)
Dual tail mod (2 heat sinks, one on each)
Superskids
BH upgrade

You will need a y adapter for power unless you splice the connections together somehow. I just bought 2 Ys, and cut off the end of one as I could not find a jst end with bare wire. Works fine this way, just have to make room on the mounting.

ESC is mounted on rear behind the read Superskid, Powerzone is small enough to strap to the battery holder bar and not limit movement of anything.

Hyperion was setup correctly out of the box, however with the powerzone board it makes it quite difficult to setup the ESC for anything other than factory settings. I guess it's always sending some signal to the ESC, so I never get low and high throttle. I will buy a pc cable and check the config that way.


Kick arrrr.

DY

On to fuse mod and time off, just flying the darn thing.