Ed,

Hope you had a relaxing weekend. I did finish fitting and installing the belly pan. Now it's time to repair the scratches and dings accumulated and finish shaping to the airplanes final form. Then I'll be close to where you are now, ready to glass and finish.

By the way, did you filet the joint between the belly pan and the wing? I think I'll do a semi-filet with a fingers width of filler on each side. I'll look forward to a photo of two showing your current build status.

Greg

David,

Cees is right. The pressure on the leading 1/3 of the chord is going to cause a lot of distortion of the airfoil with those holes in it. You will probably get a lot of audible noise, too (implying wasted energy). And because of that vibration (caused by the covering and air pressure) you will probably have flutter caused by discontinuous flow over the ailerons.

Go ahead and try it, but I think you'll be disappointed. I won't be surprised if you sped a lot of time re-shrinking the covering - it's going to stretch around those holes.

Andy

Andy,

The sucking pressure, that's the problem!

Cees

The other issue is a loss of fidelity to the original airfoil shape.

I've just done exactly what you have in 3d and I think you'll see that suddenly the airfoil shape isn't the same anymore, it looks hollow but is actually a straight line between the leading and trailing edges of the hole, giving you in essence a diamond airfoil at that point.

Rendegade,

I have to write in English and is often not understand, this was my description.



See your picture, 1 and 2 (two more points on different areas) , but, WITH the sucking pressure curve 3!!! The curve can have any shape, more of less bending!, than the airfoil over that distance.


Cees

Gents,

all very interesting but I doubt this is the right place to discuss this. As suggested before, let's not sabotage Ed's build thread.

I probably should never have posted those couple of pictures here. Too late now...

In brief, this was an experimental build - both for strength vs weight results as well as electric flight performance (of which I have little experience) so I will be interested in seeing the results of any discernible flight issues on this sport model.

David.

David,

It was not the first time you did show your "invention".
Because I am afraid people copy these kind of wrong solutions I did post.



Cees

Cees,

voids in wing LE's are certainly not my invention - it's all over wings even in ads on this same forum page. And actually the picture was just posted to sympathize with Greg's use of truss braced spar wing construction. I didn't think this model was worth the time and effort to do a build thread, otherwise I would have done so.

I also doubt I exercise much direct influence on other modelers through a couple of off topic photos (or otherwise for that matter). And if I did, there are no "wrong solutions" - only "interesting experiments". Among other reasons, that's why we model (at least I do). I'm not really interested in accuracy or continued reproductions as concepts per se. I'm more interested in innovative thinking.

As a final thought, this forum is not a court of law. Keeping records, mental or otherwise, and quoting or stating on a regular basis when and where someone posted or said something they shouldn't have in your view get's a little old. The idea is to move forward with exchange not to routinely dredge up someone's past incorrect statement in what seems like accusation. It's good to stretch and breathe a little if you know what I mean...

On the other hand, I am able to generally recognize your good intentions as misdirected as they sometimes come across. Thanks to others who have taken the time to post on the subject - I will look into it further.

Anyway, with that, I think I'll give any further posting on the subject a rest; at least on this thread.

My sincere apologies to Ed for this detour.

David.

Divid,

When other people think, see post 122 , I give my explanation in post 123.


I understand you only want to hear the pro's and not the con's, that's not my way of science.
End of input about this subject.



Cees

Yep, I'm bailing too, this is a subject for another place. I dont think it'll hurt the aircraft too much, and I'm dying to see the end product! Roll on baby!!!

Hopefully, we'll be going back to Ed's Deception thread.....

ChiefK

Hi Greg,
I work Sunday thru Wendsday 12 hr. shifts this week then a four day weekend Here are some shots of the bellypan and bottom of the fuse.-wing fillet on the bottom. I too will be doing the scratch and dent filling party myself this week. I flew the Duelist and it flies like it is on rails. I just need to tweak the throws and differential for pattern work. I have plenty of power w/ two GMS .47's

That's exacty what I was thinking I'd do. Thanks for the photos.

Since my Deception is a tail dragger, I'm working on establishing an aerodynamically clean installation of the main gear. I'm going to add a fairing piece inside the gear cutout (on top of the aluminum gear), so the gear mount bolts go thru the fairing piece and hold the fairing piece on, below the gear and blended to the bottom of the fuselage. Will provide a photo or two when that's done.

Did get the rudder mounted. Looks great!

Greg

I am now starting to glass the wing with "Inspector Taz" looking on. This cat can beat anyone to the chair. I will fill the weave in with a slurry of vinyl spackle and water, a 50-50 mix. This idea was given to me by a good friend and master builed /painter Rick Jacobs of Akron. Normally I lay down two coats of epoxy primer but that can get heavy.

Ed,

Thanks for the "filler" tip. I'll try it. I'm still hinging, but I'll be in Florida for 10-12 days, so no progress for a little while.

Greg

Ed,

Because the reduced communication facility with cats I do have attention for the body language.
Andy Kunz, Free Bird and WEDJ did learn me the USA abbreviation for "good result"!
Maybe you can use that with "Inspector Taz" on any moment.

Nice job, continue

Cees

The wing is now glassed as are all the control surfaces and horz. stab. I just glass one side of the vert. fin. I tried that slurry filler on the rudder and will post on how it went and some new pics.

I have the wings done and ailerons on after the slurry mix was sanded off. It finishes almost glass smooth after this step but very dusty. The fin is now glassed. This is the slurry I use. I had about half a can of vinyl spackle left so I added water and a touch of alcohol to thin. I brush it on then sand w/ 400 grit dry. The elevators show before sanding. The rudder is shown after the slurry mix and Klass Kote (KK) primer sanded off. I think I can delete the brush on coat of KK primer and just go to a spray application. I didn't see much of a difference in finish. This will save a lot of sanding by skipping a brush coat and save good primer. Tomorrow is supposed to be a nice day so off the the field w/ the Duelist

Ed,

I'm back from my trip.... please fill me in on your current build status. I unexpectedly ran out of hinge points so more are on order.

Greg

Hi Greg,

What you see is where I'm at. I'm not off until Thursday for my 4 day weekend. It's 3 on, 3 off then 4 on and 4 off, 12 hr shifts. Takes some getting used to by the new guys. Hope to glass the fuse. if I'm not out flying.

Well, I test flew the Fun Fly today and it flew hands off w/o any trim. Inspector Taz did his job well. It is hard to get into the basement when it is nice out but wait, this NE Ohio and rain for the next three days.[:@] I plan to glass the fuse. and slurry the wings the weekend.

I'm doing some "fitting" for the control surfaces and engine (had to thin the cowl sides from the inside to fit the mount and the engine), but hinging is done (not glued). Starting to look pretty good, but lots more work to do. Thinking ahead, I think I'll recruit some experienced "help" to help me with flight trimming.

Greg

Greg.
Are you going to film the wings and paint the rest?

Ed,

I'm going to "Coverite" the wings and paint the entire airplane. My engine and mount are good now. Need a little more Bondo and almost ready to start glassing.

Greg

Ed,

Are you flying that Deception yet? I'd like to hear how the maiden went....

I've been glassing the fuselage of my Deception, and I'm almost done. Only the vertical fin left to do. Using "Aeropoxy" resin really slowed me down. S..L..O..W cure rate. Called the company to see if they thought tacky surfaces after 4-5 days was "normal". They thought I was not being careful enough with the 3:1 mix ratio because our temperatures here in NC have been in the 80's during this period. I finally discovered it was the humidity. I brought the fuselage in from the garage, and with the 72 degree AC, the stuff cured much better. Also, only 5 weeks to the SPA event at Ashville I wanted to enter. There's not going to much practice time...... trying to line up someone to help me with flight trimming as soon as I can get r' done.

Greg