ljones5000

My Feedback: (2)

On a couple of occasions I have gotten into a "flap" with some of our so-called experts; maybe it's my own style that was offensive. If so, I will publicly apologize here and now. I guess it's hard to disagree without setting someone off but if I feel something written here is wrong or carelessly said, even by an expert, I should speak up. At times I have felt I am being "talked down to" because the expert feels his "expertize" trumps anything I might say. I am expert at nothing but I am not a lump of coal, either and I expect to be treated with respect.

I appreciate the comments by PE and by Capt John, they are gentlemen and have always been polite in what they contribute to this forum. Obviously, there are others too, but these two gentlemen stand out in my mind.

Dr1Driver

As they say, "You can please some of the people some of the time and **** the rest off." Seriously, there will always be a portion who are disgruntled and decide to "cut their nose off to spite their face" and leave. It's actually their loss as much as ours. I enjoy helping and passing on my experiences and, despite my 25+ years in R/C, I learn new things almost every day from a lot of posts here. When someone challenges what I say, I try to back it up with facts or an example. I've never advised anything that I haven't either done or seen done sucessfully. When someone just refuses to listen and continues to argue in the fact of facts, I leave the thread. No skin off my nose.

Dr.1

Panzlflyer

My Feedback: (15)

If that is insulting to you then thats half the problem. A smiley face designates a no insult post.

Seems people are just a bit overly touchy.

Bill, some of your posts (and mine ) set of a storm especially on the subject of ARFs and some could take offense at those and did it seems, I am sure neither of us meant it that way.
When you cant see the person and have eyeball to eyeball its easy to misconstrue what they are intent on.
I personally know a couple of "experts" who make so called expert comments and have never owned or operated the items they are experts on!!
Take it all with a grain of salt

Its a hobby each to his own.

I personally will give up on RCU.

tkg

My Feedback: (1)

Rule 1 If you won't say it face to face, don't write it here
RELAX and ENJOY RC models are a HOBBY.
There only a few here, who make a living at it. If some body is making a living at it and has been doing it for a while, maybe just maybe they know what they are talking about.

Dr1Driver

If that is insulting to you then thats half the problem.

However, I feel Bill DOES have a point. Adding a smiley doesn't always make it right. It's like saying, "You're ugly, but I mean that in a nice way." That dog ain't gonna hunt.

Problems often arise when we generalize, categorize, and make blanket judgements and comments. All of us MUST remember to not get personal in our arguments and discussions. THAT'S where the wars start. Keep it on a DEBATE level, not an ARGUMENT level. "That's a stupid idea." vs "I wouldn't do it what way. (and give the reason)"

Be personable without being personal.

Dr.1

ram3500-RCU

My Feedback: (221)

OK, I'm a little behind on this one, but I had to reply to this post. Yes, we need police in every society. But that is to keep lawbreakers from over-running the rest of us. We are talking about two different things here. One of our most basic freedoms in the USA is freedom of speech. We have the right to voice our opinions popular or otherwise. Should that be done in good taste and with due respect, of course. Is it appropriate to have foul language censored, I believe it is, but beyond that, IMO, freedom of speech should prevail. I don't see 'moderators as filling the roll of 'cops'. I see their roll being censors for the purpose of keeping this forum from becoming something we wouldn't want our kids to be a part of. Moderators who see themselves as 'cops' rather than censors may be a big part of the problem, IMO. Their opinions should not be imposed on others via the power they have with a keyboard. Nazi Germany did the same thing only not with keyboards but with guns. Moderators, please let the opinions flow freely through the filter for decency, and nothing else.

youngun

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JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

I totally agree that the written word cannot express facial expressions so that what we say in person can be taken out of context by those reading the post. It is just the limitation of the media.

As to the other about Marc not caring. In his defense and not trying to put words in his mouth but what could he do in reality? I know I would not want the job of moderator. Just like a line foreman - you are damned by management and by the guys on the floor. You just cannot please everyone. This site has to be moderated to survive and the moderators are human. Being human they will tolerate posts from some people more than others. It is just the nature of the beast.

I liken it to being dissatisfied at work. Leaving to a new company only to find they have their own set of problems.

I don't have a solution but sure wish and hope that some of these guys with their years of knowledge stay on board.

John

nonstoprc

My Feedback: (90)

100% agree.

The NO Descrimination Rule should be adhered to on RCU.

captinjohn

I am glad the Moderators let this thread keep going. I have in the past posted not so good replies (late at nite when I tired) and the next day re-read the post and thought "man did I Say that" so I right away edited my post. The Bad thing is when a thread is closed...non of us will have the chance to make things right. So I hope this thread keeps going and I am sure it will slow down to a standstill. But down the road...everyone will have a chance to say maybe I said the wrong thing or used the wrong reply that offended some other fellow modeler. Best Regards Capt,n

RTK

My Feedback: (1)

Boy I hear ya captin, I am guilty of the same thing more than once.
Maybe this thread should be call "losing our experienced people and Their Knowledge" Something about the word "expert" that brings on the wrong connotation at times and fires people up. I have used ideas that newbies have come up with because they work better than my long standing ways. Good information is good information. I won't repeat what has been said prior, but a lot has to do in the way we say things and our attitude in our writings.

youngun

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ljones5000

My Feedback: (2)

RTK, glad you said that about the word "expert". I had even typed something like that earlier but didn't post. I feel very much like Pe who said something to the effect that the term/title of expert is bestowed not by oneself but by others in recognition of special abilities, accomplishments or knowledge (or a combination thereof).

For one thing, we really don't know what the level of experience another poster has (or I don't) and we don't know who's an "expert" and who's not. To me, it's all about sharing what we know about a hobby we all enjoy and I hate it when someone gets to "wearing his britches so high" he can't hear another point of view.

TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

Expert,
ex spurt: what's left of a drip under pressure

AJF--2

My Feedback: (119)

This is a perfect example. I have known PANZ for 5 years or so-- It was not an insult, nor was it meant to be. (We were talking about it earlier today). It is a unique person expressing himself in his "colorful" way. If you knew him then you would know this. NOW-- should he change his personality or improve on his tact (Believe me-- this ain't gonna happen but just for arguement sake) This is a good natured person expressing himself with his own unique nouns, adjectives, and adverbs. ABSOLUTELY NO MALICE INTENDED. But it is taken as offensive. THEN PRIDE TAKES OVER AND HE GETS UPSET AND LEAVES. He may not be considered an "expert", so he may not be missed

FOLKS--- it's a hobby. It is what we do for fun. We pay a lot of money to have this fun. [8D]Does this sound like fun to you? (note the sunglasses)

JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

LOL What would you call Pat Roy or the late Bill Robison et al.

They do not call themselves experts but with the amount of knowledge they are willing to share what label would you apply to them?
The better question is who steps into their shoes after they are gone or left the site?

Ah well time for me to unsubscribe. It's a bear being a newbee to gas motors at this time, first RCIgn and now Pat.
John

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Marc was referring to several members who were leaving RCU for a couple of reasons. I did not read in any part of his posts where he said that RCU did not miss members leaving, or that RCU is too big for individuals to matter.

Youngun, since it is no mystery who the moderators are who tried to help you, I'll reply directly to what you wrote about your Saito engine. You were given some very good advice by numerous people and it appeared that you didn't like it, or you thought it wrong. The moderators contributed some, but not nearly half of the advice you didn't like. But, let's say that the advice was wrong for example. You appeared to know very little about the engine. From certain symptoms that you may or may not have mentioned, logical starting points to track down your problem make sense, and are the best way to get it fixed. Nobody has a crystal ball or Saito engine diagnostic computer for your engine. So, some of the steps may not be the right ones but they get to the problem if the advice is taken.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

John- think about what you just wrote. Now, think about the many, many other knowledgeable people who you left out of your short list for helpful members in Gas Engines. It sounds to me like you just insulted a huge crowd around here who help out every day and don't seek credit.

TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

That was not meant to be a jab at anyone, especially those who really do help people out. It's just something that comes to mind when I hear the word expert. It's certainly true in many cases.
If I offended anyone, I apologize.

JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

BLW,
I did not mean it that way at all. You've given great advise that I've put in my memory banks too. I'm just sad that these two guy left RCU. I probably did not express my self adequately. Sorry.
John

Stickbuilder

This may stir a stink, and I know it's a little off topic, but I disagree with moderators making posts in the forums (as a participant) while using their moderator official logon, and avitar. It's kind of like the local cop doing his grocery shopping in the official cop car. It's better off not done. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a moderator entering the discussion forum as a private individual, but it is entirely another thing for them (y'all) to do it under the guise of a moderator. That might make some that would otherwise post information that would be helpful, but might also be different, chose to not post at all. Just something for you posting moderators to consider.

Bill, AMA 4720
WACO Brotherhood #1

Dr1Driver

One of our most basic freedoms in the USA is freedom of speech.
Yes, but that does not give anyone the right to shout "fire" in a crowded theatre or to defame, besmerch, or slander anyone.

Nazi Germany did the same thing
And herein is exactly the problem and exactly why the Moderators are needed. Personal attacks. You shouldn't go around freely comparing anyone to the Nazis. Even though this remark, fortunately, wasn't aimed at me, I take personal offense at it. You should retract it.

Dr.1

Jake Ruddy

My Feedback: (40)

I don't really see what you are getting at? What does the fact that they are moderators have to do with them taking part in a conversation?

JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

Huh? Where did that come from?????

captinjohn

BLW: Moderator Why don,t you first see before you reply, how many have the same thought you have. You got to remember it was posted by a nebie and he does not know all the ohers to list and why should he? Best Regards Capt,n Edit Post140 I believe