DLE plug question
12-05-2010, 07:57 AM
#51
My Feedback: (10)
RE: DLE plug question
hi guys
ok with all this information on good parts and bad parts what works and what dosent work the pliot should make those changes that he or she feels need to change, these forums are full of great information and great people who have been there and done that so if the pliot dosest want to make those upgrades then they will learn how to fix and rebuild as my old instructor use to say WELCOME TO THE HOBBY , i am on my way to get some cm-6 from the auto store ,i learn it the hard way never again ,ask these guy they never steer you wrong and if they do someone else will chime in , thanks enjoy the hobby
ok with all this information on good parts and bad parts what works and what dosent work the pliot should make those changes that he or she feels need to change, these forums are full of great information and great people who have been there and done that so if the pliot dosest want to make those upgrades then they will learn how to fix and rebuild as my old instructor use to say WELCOME TO THE HOBBY , i am on my way to get some cm-6 from the auto store ,i learn it the hard way never again ,ask these guy they never steer you wrong and if they do someone else will chime in , thanks enjoy the hobby
12-05-2010, 08:08 AM
#52
RE: DLE plug question
ORIGINAL: rye
hi guys
ok with all this information on good parts and bad parts what works and what dosent work the pliot should make those changes that he or she feels need to change, these forums are full of great information and great people who have been there and done that so if the pliot dosest want to make those upgrades then they will learn how to fix and rebuild as my old instructor use to say WELCOME TO THE HOBBY , i am on my way to get some cm-6 from the auto store ,i learn it the hard way never again ,ask these guy they never steer you wrong and if they do someone else will chime in , thanks enjoy the hobby
hi guys
ok with all this information on good parts and bad parts what works and what dosent work the pliot should make those changes that he or she feels need to change, these forums are full of great information and great people who have been there and done that so if the pliot dosest want to make those upgrades then they will learn how to fix and rebuild as my old instructor use to say WELCOME TO THE HOBBY , i am on my way to get some cm-6 from the auto store ,i learn it the hard way never again ,ask these guy they never steer you wrong and if they do someone else will chime in , thanks enjoy the hobby
12-05-2010, 08:19 AM
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: South Bend,
AR
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: DLE plug question
in order to crash the engine needs to start and run long enough to get you airborne, if the plug fails on the ground and the engine does not start, you just dont fly, you pay your money and take your chances
12-07-2010, 07:34 AM
#54
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Potomac, MD
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: DLE plug question
Oh my god..... I had no idea there was such a single point of failure in our new 30% Extra with a DLE55. Seeing how it spends 75% of it's time in some type of gravity defying manuever 20 feet or less off the ground... that is a disaster in waiting.
I am about to start the 5th gallon of gas flying it so I guess by the established timetable described it is about due to fail. I have been flying stuff since I was 10 in the sixties - but I am new to large gas models. I am not flying again until I get a replacement NGK - it is a chance I am not willing to take over a mere $6 for an $1,800 worth of plane! Heck... I will even replace the plug in my 12 year old Cub with a G23! I am so bad - I have never even cleaned or gaped it!
Thanks for the good advice!
Dan
I am about to start the 5th gallon of gas flying it so I guess by the established timetable described it is about due to fail. I have been flying stuff since I was 10 in the sixties - but I am new to large gas models. I am not flying again until I get a replacement NGK - it is a chance I am not willing to take over a mere $6 for an $1,800 worth of plane! Heck... I will even replace the plug in my 12 year old Cub with a G23! I am so bad - I have never even cleaned or gaped it!
Thanks for the good advice!
Dan
12-07-2010, 10:54 AM
#58
RE: DLE plug question
Jedi,
I had to take a break from the work shop. I see you guys are talking spark plugs today. Whay are the break-down signs of the so called "bad plugs?
1 .Is it hard starting?
2. Is it fowling?
3. Is it the engine misses at high speed?
4. Is it short runs even though the ignition battery was at full charge?
5. Is it a not Idle too goodthing?
6. Is it got to do with the type of gas you use on spark plug life?
7. Is it got to do withthe brand of oil used in fuel?
Thanks Capt,n
Edit...I added #7
I had to take a break from the work shop. I see you guys are talking spark plugs today. Whay are the break-down signs of the so called "bad plugs?
1 .Is it hard starting?
2. Is it fowling?
3. Is it the engine misses at high speed?
4. Is it short runs even though the ignition battery was at full charge?
5. Is it a not Idle too goodthing?
6. Is it got to do with the type of gas you use on spark plug life?
7. Is it got to do withthe brand of oil used in fuel?
Thanks Capt,n
Edit...I added #7
12-07-2010, 11:20 AM
#60
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
RE: DLE plug question
ORIGINAL: summerwind
but i don't understand, the DLE cm6 plug lists for more money than the NGK..........so how can the NGK be better?
but i don't understand, the DLE cm6 plug lists for more money than the NGK..........so how can the NGK be better?
Because the Chinese or Tower are asking for more than the plug is worth. Price does not establish quality or value, it only determines what someone wants for it. The question was probably never answered because nobody thought it was serious.
12-07-2010, 12:06 PM
#61
RE: DLE plug question
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
Jedi,
.... Whay are the break-down signs of the so called "bad plugs?.....
Jedi,
.... Whay are the break-down signs of the so called "bad plugs?.....
Has nothing to do with fuel or oil type/brand, mix ratios, octane ratings, orquality of tune.
12-07-2010, 12:47 PM
#62
RE: DLE plug question
ORIGINAL: rye
hi guys
ok with all this information on good parts and bad parts what works and what dosent work the pliot should make those changes that he or she feels need to change, these forums are full of great information and great people who have been there and done that so if the pliot dosest want to make those upgrades then they will learn how to fix and rebuild as my old instructor use to say WELCOME TO THE HOBBY , i am on my way to get some cm-6 from the auto store ,i learn it the hard way never again ,ask these guy they never steer you wrong and if they do someone else will chime in , thanks enjoy the hobby
hi guys
ok with all this information on good parts and bad parts what works and what dosent work the pliot should make those changes that he or she feels need to change, these forums are full of great information and great people who have been there and done that so if the pliot dosest want to make those upgrades then they will learn how to fix and rebuild as my old instructor use to say WELCOME TO THE HOBBY , i am on my way to get some cm-6 from the auto store ,i learn it the hard way never again ,ask these guy they never steer you wrong and if they do someone else will chime in , thanks enjoy the hobby
12-07-2010, 01:09 PM
#64
RE: DLE plug question
but see that's my point. if the CM6 plugs that come with DLE engines is known to be defective, then aren't they responsible for someone crashing their plane?
no mention anywhere that the engine is to be used in a certain manner, and all the talk here is basically around 3D type planes, so being established that the engines are used in various manners, why are they supplying defective CM 6 spark plugs?
guys, i am not trying to rock the boat, but for those out there who don't travel through these forums, what's fair here?
no mention anywhere that the engine is to be used in a certain manner, and all the talk here is basically around 3D type planes, so being established that the engines are used in various manners, why are they supplying defective CM 6 spark plugs?
guys, i am not trying to rock the boat, but for those out there who don't travel through these forums, what's fair here?
12-07-2010, 01:21 PM
#65
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
RE: DLE plug question
Let's say this one more time. DLE engines DO NOT COME WITH CM-6 PLUGS. They come with a copied derivative of a CM-6 plug. Copy, not original design, counterfiet, got it now? For the record, that pretty much desribes the origin of every engine coming out of China. Copy, counterfiet, not original design. Some manage to make some alterations in improvement but most are content to copy and market an engine design belonging to another and sell it at a lower price, often with much lower quality components. Don't argue that, there's an over abundance of historical information and data to support the position.
They are providing this plug because it costs them MUCH less than an NGK CM-6 would, and because they can. If everyone stopped buying a DLE engine unless it came with a real NGK plug they would have an NGK plug very quickly. That's one of the things Jody does, btw. He sends tham out with NGK at his expense to better satisfy the customer. If you think the Chinese will accept product liability without it first being a multi billion dollar case with international exposure, think again.
What's fair, at least from their perspective, is that Americans have become a throwaway society so nothing needs to last very long. The dumb Americans will buy anything if it's cheap enough, and is reasonably attractive. The dumb American will complain a lot when something works incorrectly but they will just eventually buy another one since they don't want to spend the money for a good one. All we (Chinese) have to do is buy one of the good ones to make thousands of the not so good ones. The dumb Americans will buy anything. If we get caught doing something wrong we'll just close up shop and open again next week with a new name.
So what's fair from the American perspective is that you become aware of a little engine history and make judgement calls based upon facts, performance, and quality.
For the record, DLE is the best Chinese engine manufacturer in the business. DLE makes great engines while all the rest of the current Chinese manufacturers only market cheap engines.
They are providing this plug because it costs them MUCH less than an NGK CM-6 would, and because they can. If everyone stopped buying a DLE engine unless it came with a real NGK plug they would have an NGK plug very quickly. That's one of the things Jody does, btw. He sends tham out with NGK at his expense to better satisfy the customer. If you think the Chinese will accept product liability without it first being a multi billion dollar case with international exposure, think again.
What's fair, at least from their perspective, is that Americans have become a throwaway society so nothing needs to last very long. The dumb Americans will buy anything if it's cheap enough, and is reasonably attractive. The dumb American will complain a lot when something works incorrectly but they will just eventually buy another one since they don't want to spend the money for a good one. All we (Chinese) have to do is buy one of the good ones to make thousands of the not so good ones. The dumb Americans will buy anything. If we get caught doing something wrong we'll just close up shop and open again next week with a new name.
So what's fair from the American perspective is that you become aware of a little engine history and make judgement calls based upon facts, performance, and quality.
For the record, DLE is the best Chinese engine manufacturer in the business. DLE makes great engines while all the rest of the current Chinese manufacturers only market cheap engines.
12-07-2010, 01:35 PM
#66
RE: DLE plug question
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
Let's say this one more time. DLE engines DO NOT COME WITH CM-6 PLUGS. They come with a copied derivative of a CM-6 plug. Copy, not original design, counterfiet, got it now?
Let's say this one more time. DLE engines DO NOT COME WITH CM-6 PLUGS. They come with a copied derivative of a CM-6 plug. Copy, not original design, counterfiet, got it now?
Those of us who are real modelers know that every part that goes into the model has to be selected for its intended purpose. Selection based on many things such as our own experience, what we read or learn from other sources, etc. Today, the situation is really no different than it has ever been in this regard. I've seen some really crappy products from many sources over the years. China is just in the forefront as a major source for the parts and equipment we use these days.
12-07-2010, 01:43 PM
#67
Senior Member
My Feedback: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Potomac, MD
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: DLE plug question
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
That's one of the things Jody does, btw. He sends tham out with NGK at his expense to better satisfy the customer.
That's one of the things Jody does, btw. He sends tham out with NGK at his expense to better satisfy the customer.
Dan
12-07-2010, 02:14 PM
#69
RE: DLE plug question
When has any Chinese model engine company been held liable for the quality or reliability of their product. It's unfortunate that those that don't do enough home work can get bit by problems caused by inadequacies of foreign products, in our hobby it's almost always of Chinese manufacture. People that buy solely based on price are always going to have the least chance of success.
DLE is the only Chinese engine company that has broken away from the copy cat methodology and is far and away the best model engine company in China. Their products are purpose built with excellent materials and workmanship, their only deficiency is the spark plug, I do everything I can to remedy that.
There are many other Chinese model engine manufactures that commit much more grievous component quality crimes than suppling a poor spark plug.
DLE is the only Chinese engine company that has broken away from the copy cat methodology and is far and away the best model engine company in China. Their products are purpose built with excellent materials and workmanship, their only deficiency is the spark plug, I do everything I can to remedy that.
There are many other Chinese model engine manufactures that commit much more grievous component quality crimes than suppling a poor spark plug.
12-07-2010, 02:44 PM
#70
RE: DLE plug question
I agree with Tom & Jody, the DLE enginebrand is made better than all the other China made want to be,s. I may "consider" a JBA some time. Best Regards Capt,n
12-07-2010, 02:49 PM
#71
RE: DLE plug question
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
Let's say this one more time. DLE engines DO NOT COME WITH CM-6 PLUGS. They come with a copied derivative of a CM-6 plug. Copy, not original design, counterfiet, got it now? For the record, that pretty much desribes the origin of every engine coming out of China. Copy, counterfiet, not original design. Some manage to make some alterations in improvement but most are content to copy and market an engine design belonging to another and sell it at a lower price, often with much lower quality components. Don't argue that, there's an over abundance of historical information and data to support the position.
They are providing this plug because it costs them MUCH less than an NGK CM-6 would, and because they can. If everyone stopped buying a DLE engine unless it came with a real NGK plug they would have an NGK plug very quickly. That's one of the things Jody does, btw. He sends tham out with NGK at his expense to better satisfy the customer. If you think the Chinese will accept product liability without it first being a multi billion dollar case with international exposure, think again.
What's fair, at least from their perspective, is that Americans have become a throwaway society so nothing needs to last very long. The dumb Americans will buy anything if it's cheap enough, and is reasonably attractive. The dumb American will complain a lot when something works incorrectly but they will just eventually buy another one since they don't want to spend the money for a good one. All we (Chinese) have to do is buy one of the good ones to make thousands of the not so good ones. The dumb Americans will buy anything. If we get caught doing something wrong we'll just close up shop and open again next week with a new name.
So what's fair from the American perspective is that you become aware of a little engine history and make judgement calls based upon facts, performance, and quality.
For the record, DLE is the best Chinese engine manufacturer in the business. DLE makes great engines while all the rest of the current Chinese manufacturers only market cheap engines.
Let's say this one more time. DLE engines DO NOT COME WITH CM-6 PLUGS. They come with a copied derivative of a CM-6 plug. Copy, not original design, counterfiet, got it now? For the record, that pretty much desribes the origin of every engine coming out of China. Copy, counterfiet, not original design. Some manage to make some alterations in improvement but most are content to copy and market an engine design belonging to another and sell it at a lower price, often with much lower quality components. Don't argue that, there's an over abundance of historical information and data to support the position.
They are providing this plug because it costs them MUCH less than an NGK CM-6 would, and because they can. If everyone stopped buying a DLE engine unless it came with a real NGK plug they would have an NGK plug very quickly. That's one of the things Jody does, btw. He sends tham out with NGK at his expense to better satisfy the customer. If you think the Chinese will accept product liability without it first being a multi billion dollar case with international exposure, think again.
What's fair, at least from their perspective, is that Americans have become a throwaway society so nothing needs to last very long. The dumb Americans will buy anything if it's cheap enough, and is reasonably attractive. The dumb American will complain a lot when something works incorrectly but they will just eventually buy another one since they don't want to spend the money for a good one. All we (Chinese) have to do is buy one of the good ones to make thousands of the not so good ones. The dumb Americans will buy anything. If we get caught doing something wrong we'll just close up shop and open again next week with a new name.
So what's fair from the American perspective is that you become aware of a little engine history and make judgement calls based upon facts, performance, and quality.
For the record, DLE is the best Chinese engine manufacturer in the business. DLE makes great engines while all the rest of the current Chinese manufacturers only market cheap engines.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXYND9&P=ML
and sees the replacement plug listed on Hobbicos (who is suppose to be the distributor) page here, and this is funny, they call it NGK CM6 with the part number in perenthesis which is on towers site
http://www.dle-engines.com/dleg0031.html
you are basically saying that a newbie needs to doubt the seller (other than VallyviewRC whom we all trust) and look further into the engine and all it's related topics before using the DLE?
that's a bunk statement and you know it.
when a newbie buys something these days, they are sure as heck not going to build a kit, maybe an ARF or two and then go for the super 3D model they saw on youtube, or maybe another flyer at the field. all they know is that they can buy this that or the other. now if they go out and buy the 3D Arf, and power it with the DLE and the plug fails and they crash, they are going to be pretty mad and that's why we see the complaint here. they learn of RCU through searches of why their brand new DLE took a crap. many things posted here show up on yahoo search.
i also don't know how you were raised as a kid, but i have never been taught that anything in this hobby is disposable. throwaways as you refer to with Americans are bic lighters, Dodge Neons, etc.
so what i want to know is why if there is so much information regarding the so-called CM6 plug that DLE ships with their engines is known to crap out, is the USA distributor not removing them from the box, or at least inserting a note to the buyer to check the forums for what issues they may encounter if using the stock plug?
to me this is no different than sending a rocket up into space when there is a known defect with an O-ring................someone has to be held liable. the newbie should not have to suffer the loss of his new plane due to someone thinking that USA is a thowaway country and it's just their tough luck for not having doubted the sellers product.
12-07-2010, 02:55 PM
#72
RE: DLE plug question
i'll add to this that Jody is a straight up enthusiast and will go out on the limb to insure that any new DLE user is getting the best.
but there are old timers in many clubs like mine that will insist on break-in of a gas engine be done on the bench like it's a friggin lapped pistion 2 stroke.
a member and friend of mine right here just went thru this drama a while back. he finally quit listening to them and ran the DLE 50 like it was suppose to be run and it's been a performer ever since..............not once though did anyone mention to him that the DLE plug was a grunt..........
but there are old timers in many clubs like mine that will insist on break-in of a gas engine be done on the bench like it's a friggin lapped pistion 2 stroke.
a member and friend of mine right here just went thru this drama a while back. he finally quit listening to them and ran the DLE 50 like it was suppose to be run and it's been a performer ever since..............not once though did anyone mention to him that the DLE plug was a grunt..........
12-07-2010, 03:16 PM
#73
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
RE: DLE plug question
If you return a DLE engine to Tower for service, and it was sent to them with a true CM-6 plug installed, it is returned to you after the removal of the NGK product, substitued with a DLE plug. If you receive a spark plug in a box labelled NGK or Honda, you have a real NGK plug. All others are copies.
If that's the worst thing that ever happens people have little to be concerned about, but I loearned a long time ago never to trust advertising to provide me with the information needed to make a wqualified decision.
I've seen far too many planes advertised to be excellent flyers that have turned out to be dogs from the distributor you mentioned. I still have a couple at the house that are hard pressed to get off the ground, let alone fly, when set up with the equipment advertised as necessary for flight opertions. Even when usin upgraded components they don't do very well. It's all about selling product.
If that's the worst thing that ever happens people have little to be concerned about, but I loearned a long time ago never to trust advertising to provide me with the information needed to make a wqualified decision.
I've seen far too many planes advertised to be excellent flyers that have turned out to be dogs from the distributor you mentioned. I still have a couple at the house that are hard pressed to get off the ground, let alone fly, when set up with the equipment advertised as necessary for flight opertions. Even when usin upgraded components they don't do very well. It's all about selling product.
12-07-2010, 03:27 PM
#74
RE: DLE plug question
i certainly agree with you on some of the models out there being duds.
my point in this thread is not to raise anyones back hairs, but rather to point out that when someone like Tower (Hobbico or whatever) sells something, they should be held accountable for the mishaps due to a part being defective.
they've been told about this, but choose to advertise as they do and to me that's a crime.
Jody ships the DLE's with genuine NGK plugs.
ValleyViewRC is where i will buy from for now on.
we all know why as well.
in regards to sending the engine to Hobbico, i hold little faith that they would honor the warranty to keep me from paying, but would indeed say the related issue is my fault. i will send it to Jody.
like i said before too, had i known of VVRC, i would have bought from them.
as it is, the DLE 30 i bought from Tower came with 1 carb screw that had a rusted head and turned out to be stripped........they did not help me out at all as they wanted me to send the engine back, but they were at that time out of stock, so i would have had to wait for some time to continue my build.........so i had to buy another carb to fix the issue. my suggestion to them was to simply exchange the carb. they wanted to replace the whole engine.
lesson learned the hard way.
my point in this thread is not to raise anyones back hairs, but rather to point out that when someone like Tower (Hobbico or whatever) sells something, they should be held accountable for the mishaps due to a part being defective.
they've been told about this, but choose to advertise as they do and to me that's a crime.
Jody ships the DLE's with genuine NGK plugs.
ValleyViewRC is where i will buy from for now on.
we all know why as well.
in regards to sending the engine to Hobbico, i hold little faith that they would honor the warranty to keep me from paying, but would indeed say the related issue is my fault. i will send it to Jody.
like i said before too, had i known of VVRC, i would have bought from them.
as it is, the DLE 30 i bought from Tower came with 1 carb screw that had a rusted head and turned out to be stripped........they did not help me out at all as they wanted me to send the engine back, but they were at that time out of stock, so i would have had to wait for some time to continue my build.........so i had to buy another carb to fix the issue. my suggestion to them was to simply exchange the carb. they wanted to replace the whole engine.
lesson learned the hard way.
12-07-2010, 03:34 PM
#75
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
RE: DLE plug question
ORIGINAL: summerwind
so when a newbie sees this,
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXYND9&P=ML
and sees the replacement plug listed on Hobbicos (who is suppose to be the distributor) page here, and this is funny, they call it NGK CM6 with the part number in perenthesis which is on towers site
http://www.dle-engines.com/dleg0031.html
you are basically saying that a newbie needs to doubt the seller (other than VallyviewRC whom we all trust) and look further into the engine and all it's related topics before using the DLE?
That's exactly what I'm saying.But not really applicable to DLE as to other Chinese engine manufacturers
that's a bunk statement and you know it.
No, It's not. It's absolutely true
when a newbie buys something these days, they are sure as heck not going to build a kit, maybe an ARF or two and then go for the super 3D model they saw on youtube, or maybe another flyer at the field.
Actually, many of them do exactly that.
all they know is that they can buy this that or the other. now if they go out and buy the 3D Arf, and power it with the DLE and the plug fails and they crash, they are going to be pretty mad (yes, they certainly will, if they can figure out why the engine quit) and that's why we see the complaint here. they learn of RCU through searches of why their brand new DLE took a crap. many things posted here show up on yahoo search.
i also don't know how you were raised as a kid, but i have never been taught that anything in this hobby is disposable. throwaways as you refer to with Americans are bic lighters, Dodge Neons, etc.
I was evidently raised like you and believe one should buy things that last, even if they cost a little more. Those items also hold their value for much, much longer. DLE is the only Chinese engine manufacturer that makes a good product. Proven fact, so the plug thing isn't a big issue in the greater scope of things. DLE is less expensive because of the difference in cost with Chinese materials and labor, not due to lower quality.
so what i want to know is why if there is so much information regarding the so-called CM6 plug that DLE ships with their engines is known to crap out, is the USA distributor not removing them from the box, or at least inserting a note to the buyer to check the forums for what issues they may encounter if using the stock plug?
Answer, money. They can make more on the engine with the DLE plug than they would with a true NGK. That's my opinion anyway.
to me this is no different than sending a rocket up into space when there is a known defect with an O-ring................someone has to be held liable.
Agreed, but the Space Shuttle blew up in spite of that feeling. Nobody went to jail for that one either. Accountability is dependant on access. Hard to lean on someone 6,000 miles away. The plug isn't a big enough deal to bother with. Buy another one.
the newbie should not have to suffer the loss of his new plane due to someone thinking that USA is a thowaway country and it's just their tough luck for not having doubted the sellers product.
E Caveat Emptor in all things these days. The buyer is responsible for their own education. Failing to acquire that education places the buyer at the mercy of the seller.
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
Let's say this one more time. DLE engines DO NOT COME WITH CM-6 PLUGS. They come with a copied derivative of a CM-6 plug. Copy, not original design, counterfiet, got it now? For the record, that pretty much desribes the origin of every engine coming out of China. Copy, counterfiet, not original design. Some manage to make some alterations in improvement but most are content to copy and market an engine design belonging to another and sell it at a lower price, often with much lower quality components. Don't argue that, there's an over abundance of historical information and data to support the position.
They are providing this plug because it costs them MUCH less than an NGK CM-6 would, and because they can. If everyone stopped buying a DLE engine unless it came with a real NGK plug they would have an NGK plug very quickly. That's one of the things Jody does, btw. He sends tham out with NGK at his expense to better satisfy the customer. If you think the Chinese will accept product liability without it first being a multi billion dollar case with international exposure, think again.
What's fair, at least from their perspective, is that Americans have become a throwaway society so nothing needs to last very long. The dumb Americans will buy anything if it's cheap enough, and is reasonably attractive. The dumb American will complain a lot when something works incorrectly but they will just eventually buy another one since they don't want to spend the money for a good one. All we (Chinese) have to do is buy one of the good ones to make thousands of the not so good ones. The dumb Americans will buy anything. If we get caught doing something wrong we'll just close up shop and open again next week with a new name.
So what's fair from the American perspective is that you become aware of a little engine history and make judgement calls based upon facts, performance, and quality.
For the record, DLE is the best Chinese engine manufacturer in the business. DLE makes great engines while all the rest of the current Chinese manufacturers only market cheap engines.
Let's say this one more time. DLE engines DO NOT COME WITH CM-6 PLUGS. They come with a copied derivative of a CM-6 plug. Copy, not original design, counterfiet, got it now? For the record, that pretty much desribes the origin of every engine coming out of China. Copy, counterfiet, not original design. Some manage to make some alterations in improvement but most are content to copy and market an engine design belonging to another and sell it at a lower price, often with much lower quality components. Don't argue that, there's an over abundance of historical information and data to support the position.
They are providing this plug because it costs them MUCH less than an NGK CM-6 would, and because they can. If everyone stopped buying a DLE engine unless it came with a real NGK plug they would have an NGK plug very quickly. That's one of the things Jody does, btw. He sends tham out with NGK at his expense to better satisfy the customer. If you think the Chinese will accept product liability without it first being a multi billion dollar case with international exposure, think again.
What's fair, at least from their perspective, is that Americans have become a throwaway society so nothing needs to last very long. The dumb Americans will buy anything if it's cheap enough, and is reasonably attractive. The dumb American will complain a lot when something works incorrectly but they will just eventually buy another one since they don't want to spend the money for a good one. All we (Chinese) have to do is buy one of the good ones to make thousands of the not so good ones. The dumb Americans will buy anything. If we get caught doing something wrong we'll just close up shop and open again next week with a new name.
So what's fair from the American perspective is that you become aware of a little engine history and make judgement calls based upon facts, performance, and quality.
For the record, DLE is the best Chinese engine manufacturer in the business. DLE makes great engines while all the rest of the current Chinese manufacturers only market cheap engines.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXYND9&P=ML
and sees the replacement plug listed on Hobbicos (who is suppose to be the distributor) page here, and this is funny, they call it NGK CM6 with the part number in perenthesis which is on towers site
http://www.dle-engines.com/dleg0031.html
you are basically saying that a newbie needs to doubt the seller (other than VallyviewRC whom we all trust) and look further into the engine and all it's related topics before using the DLE?
That's exactly what I'm saying.But not really applicable to DLE as to other Chinese engine manufacturers
that's a bunk statement and you know it.
No, It's not. It's absolutely true
when a newbie buys something these days, they are sure as heck not going to build a kit, maybe an ARF or two and then go for the super 3D model they saw on youtube, or maybe another flyer at the field.
Actually, many of them do exactly that.
all they know is that they can buy this that or the other. now if they go out and buy the 3D Arf, and power it with the DLE and the plug fails and they crash, they are going to be pretty mad (yes, they certainly will, if they can figure out why the engine quit) and that's why we see the complaint here. they learn of RCU through searches of why their brand new DLE took a crap. many things posted here show up on yahoo search.
i also don't know how you were raised as a kid, but i have never been taught that anything in this hobby is disposable. throwaways as you refer to with Americans are bic lighters, Dodge Neons, etc.
I was evidently raised like you and believe one should buy things that last, even if they cost a little more. Those items also hold their value for much, much longer. DLE is the only Chinese engine manufacturer that makes a good product. Proven fact, so the plug thing isn't a big issue in the greater scope of things. DLE is less expensive because of the difference in cost with Chinese materials and labor, not due to lower quality.
so what i want to know is why if there is so much information regarding the so-called CM6 plug that DLE ships with their engines is known to crap out, is the USA distributor not removing them from the box, or at least inserting a note to the buyer to check the forums for what issues they may encounter if using the stock plug?
Answer, money. They can make more on the engine with the DLE plug than they would with a true NGK. That's my opinion anyway.
to me this is no different than sending a rocket up into space when there is a known defect with an O-ring................someone has to be held liable.
Agreed, but the Space Shuttle blew up in spite of that feeling. Nobody went to jail for that one either. Accountability is dependant on access. Hard to lean on someone 6,000 miles away. The plug isn't a big enough deal to bother with. Buy another one.
the newbie should not have to suffer the loss of his new plane due to someone thinking that USA is a thowaway country and it's just their tough luck for not having doubted the sellers product.
E Caveat Emptor in all things these days. The buyer is responsible for their own education. Failing to acquire that education places the buyer at the mercy of the seller.
I replied to each line item as I saw the need. The intent is not to cause anger, but to educate. I communicate bluntly and many mistake that for derision or a lack of respect. having been around the hobby for a loooong time I've been fortunate, or unfortunate in some cases, to have observed a great many changes in the way the hobby functions between vendors and customers. It's not like it "used to be".
A great many newbies do exactly the wrong thing. They fly a sim or a trainer for a little while and run out and buy a 30cc to 50cc gasser. The price made the decision for them. Too many newbie posts that reflect that kind of activity. The results are generally predictable, and unfortunate. They don't understand the ins and outs of the hobby because they never had the opportunity to be a builder, only an assembler. They often don't understand or recognize what can or should be done for the correct operation/function of their model. They read the advertisement, bought the materials on the suggested materials list, most of which are of course sold by the same vendor, followed the instructions, right or wrong as they arrived, and proceed to go merrily along, having problems all the way to the first crash. Then they come onto RCU or some other blog with the "what happened, I followed all the directions" questions.
The vendor made money. In the greater scope of the business world, that's all that mattered.