With the search function unreliable at this time, I thought I'd ask this question outright.

Is there anything smaller than the 15cc engines currently offered (or in the works, I guess)? Or is that about the limit in size we're likely to see for a while.

Thanks

There is a Fox .50 and a Magnum .52 not sure what else.

There's supposed to be a 9cc (.60?) come this Spring.

Any idea who is bringing out the 9 cc motor?

Magnum has never released the engine and I can't find out much about the Fox. 

I'm curious about the smaller motors power/reliability.

I saw both these engines early April 2010 and the talk from the manufacturers/distributors was that they would be available immediately but it is almost a year later and they are not on the market yet.

Yep, same person who brought us the JBA 15g (.90), Michael Chow.

He's stated his intentions here.......
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10207437

Looks like he left the original company, started a new company,
and will be coming out with 3 new engines; 9cc, 17cc, and a 35cc.

Maybe around our Spring time frame.

I thought the Fox actually made the market ?

http://www.foxmanufacturing.com/inde...oducts_id=1519

Of larger inport is WHY?

If the cost of fuel is a major concern with a .09 to .15 engine someone needs to take up aluminum can collecting as their new hobby. The efficiency of glow engines in this size range is far superior to that of gas, and the weight is lower as well. I would think the cost of a quality glow wngine in this size would also be less than a gas engine.

That's my view, but others clearly have a different viewpoint.

AV8TOR

On a small engine, fuel cost isn't an issue for most people, but I know I'm not the only one sick of building a model then having the covering get messed up by oil creeping under the seams of the covering. I'm building a 4*120 with a gasser on it, but would just as soon have a tiny gasoline engine for my 4*40. The biggest problem I see with the smaller gasoline engines is that due to the fixed weight of the ignition& battery pack, 15cc seems to be the lowest practical limit on a gasoline motor.

I agree with you TOM 100%. Capt,n

Fuel costs do seem the #1 issue for hobbyist converting over from glow to gas,
but I agree the lack of glow slime on the airframe is up there as well!

The JBA-15g (.90) and the DLE20cc (1.20) are both on a fast track to
overtaking the (past) popularity of similar glows.

Just look over their extremely active threads here on RCU and elsewhere.

Topping their popularity is gas being cheaper than glow fuel, they're extremely
powerful, lightweight, NO slimy glow residue from the exhaust, and often priced
equal to -or- cheaper than the glow they're replacing.

These two gas engines exhibit many of the benefits that the much larger gassers
have enjoyed for so long, but now available to more hobbyist in the lower ranges.

I used to consider the 50cc to be as small as you could get in power to weight/cost
for overall performance per dollar, but then came the 30cc, and now the 20cc, and 15cc.

15cc might just end up the lowest it goes, unless Michael Chow and/or others in
our hobby can truly reduce the size of the ign modules. Time will tell.

But all of the sizes mentioned are still running a negative power to weight ratio when compared to equal sized glow engines. I can undersatnd the fuel trade off with the 30. Not so much with the 20, and not at all with anything smaller.

I recognize the gain in pouplarity but are they becoming popular for the right reasons, or because people don't have the full picture? Gas is cheaper is a nice thing to be able to chant but is also having to say you have less power and more weight worth the fuel price difference? Until a mini gas engine can make MORE power than a comparable glow engine the user is running a negative in everything except fuel cost.

If they use the same displacement mini gasser (20 and under) in a plane that should have had a glow engine, the gross weight and wing loading went up while the power went down. I think we can extrapolate where flight performance went. My point is people need to become knowledgable about this stuff before they get too excited and invest in something that may well turn out to be a massive let down at a high expense. We should not throw a lot of money at novelty. It only fattens manufacturer pockets with little gain for the users.

Completely, and utterly false, at least in regards to the DLE20.

Ask Jody if he'd loan you one so you can test the chit out of it. In short order you'll be tearing into it, trying to figure out how it does so great. All along the way you'll be scratching and shaking your head and saying things like I don't believe it/no freakin way and so on.

Read the various threads on the DLE20, here and over on F.L.Y.I.N.G. G.I.A.N.T.S. and you'll see they're becoming very knowledgable about the DLE20 {ignore the "search challenged" newb's}

At least for that engine, it now holds the prize for being the best all around overall value in the low end of gassers, a place the 30 used to claim. No novelty involved with the DLE20, it's holding it's own easily.

Not so certain regarding the same being said for the 15 in the same respects.......but it's dang close!
I'm reserving judgement on the yet to be released 9cc.

Too bad nobody has a dyno to test the DLE20 on. I believe a slew of us would love to know it's true H.P.
Mfg's claimed H.P./C.R. are too often an advertising scam and overall joke.

The dynos are out there but I don't think anybody that has one also has a use for a 20CC engine, meaning one would never make it to the dyno. Interesting about the power but I'd still be surprised to see it outperform something like an OS 1.08. Unless the output of the OS hs decreased a lot from some years ago.

ONLY an OS 1.08....only?

Raise the bar up to nearly as good as an OS 1.20!
Might be even if you reduce the tank size to compensate for that
dead weight (bigger tank) the DLE20 doesn't need.

How's about 15+ minutes on 8oz of gas!

More power than a CRRC Pro 26 or a Saito 1.25...{Jody's comment} (Saito FG-20/gasser)....{Winningham's comment}

Regarding the dyno; I'd be more inclined to believe anyone with one would NOT
want to freely foot the bill. Dyno use is charged by the hour. Might be by the 1/4 hour
now, been 30+ years since I had any need of one.

Get a hold of one, and do some testing.
It will surprise you.

This is just my opinion... is that 15cc , 20cc & 30cc rear intake gas engines will be quite popular because of 2 things. #1 Having a reed rear intake gives maximum torque (with the ability toturn larger dia props) & #2 the gas is cheap fuel. Most RC people will save...but not all. The ones that have ignition RF problems will end up spending more $$ than if you mixed your own no-Nitro fuel & ran a big SuperTiger or simular glow engine. Capt,n

I think part of the interest in smaller gassers is from people that don't currently fly a gas anything. They have an image of installing the gasser where their glo engine was and away they go. Little or no thought is given to how and where they will install the ignition module and related components in a small fuselage that is already cramped for space with just the glo tank in there. They don't think about tank relocation, additional cooling requirements, greater weight, etc. They only think about getting rid of the glo mess and going flying off into the wild blue! Should make for a good spectator sport during their learning curve!

there is another BIG factor that hasnt been mentioned here - not everyone who flys has a local hobbyshop within 5 minutes that sells glow fuel, gas on the other hand is everywhere there is a human. even the smallest one horse towns have a gas station

I agree on the DLE20 - compare it to an OS 1.20 and theres not much in it. so simple and just plug and play stuff too.

There's always electric power. Electrons are available pretty much everywhere.

Ain't that the truth!
You can often spot them, they're the ones attempting to install a DLE20 into a .60 size airframe
that only weighs 5 lbs, and has the wing area of 4" square wall tile.

I even posted a guide for such gas newbies here....
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10147178
......but some are challenged in the model -to- eng matching dept.

Good to see there's some practical considerations being made here. I'm inclined to agree with the previous opinions about spectator sport. Those wil come from the same people that experience self induced RFI/EMI issues.

Jim,

Sorry, but I'll have to recuse myself from any 20CC testing. All my time is dedicated to revenue generating engines for the moment and fun time is at a minumum.

I'm relatively new to the gasser side of things, but after putting one on a Rascal 110; I would like to see how someone would fit all the extras into a smaller fuse myself. The 110 has a lot more room than a 40 or 60 size plane, but the room filled up quick after everything was installed. Not to mention trying to get your ignition / RX seperation.

This is the second DLE20cc I've setup. This one is in a H9 Twist 150, and there's really no spare room for nuffin!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=10266851

Look at the last 2 photos (forget the snow, next two) from the last. One shows the throttle servo at the bottom
of the fuse, which is the stock location of the fuel tank. The other one shows the same location. In THAT photo is;
the 8 oz fuel tank, MPi voltage regulator, 42% Products Optical Ign Kill, 42% Prod 2S1P 2600mAh L-Ion battery,
AND the throttle servo!!!

Ign module is above (actually below) the eng, and the FASST receiver is beneath the forward section of the canopy.

Waiting on some warmer weather to check her out!

I put a little stihl conversion in a 4-star 60. No mods were needed to the airframe. It flew very well. The past owner was quite impressed. For comparison I tried a 90 2-stoke glow. It also flew very well too. From the ground I could not tell the difference. It did not fly heavy with the gasser. Landings were a breeze, it just floated in. Fitting the igniton module was tight but, remember you need less fuel with the gas engine thus, a smaller fuel tank. You can run the ignition off a four cell AAA NiMH pack just fine. All up weight was more but it did not seem to fly any different. I used the plain old 72 MHZ radio with no problem, RCEXL ignition. The gas engine is more reliable, that probably has more to do with my knowledge of fine tuning glow engies though.