A new hangar 9 cap 232 1/3 scale limited. i want good vertical and lots of power. what would be a good engine that is reliable for this airplane?

would a desert aircraft 100cc engine work well in it?

The DA would certainly work, I have a ZDZ 80 twin in my Cap and accomplishes the task easily. A friend has a BME 102 twin in his and it obviously has great power. Another friend is putting the ZDZ 80 single in his. These are all great choices I believe, depends on how much you would like to spend.

The DA 100... if you want maximum performance, the DA is one. If you want the very best in materials and workmanship (and workmanship is an understatement...more like artwork), the DA is the one. If you want smooth reliable power that puts it's torque out down low to turn those huge props, the DA is the one. If you want to do buisness and get service from the man who wrote the book on it Dave Johnson is the one. The DA has OBSCENE power! On KS cans it's even stronger. The engine has an IGN that is the best I have ever seen...even guys running 3w's are running DA IGN's! hehehe The engine is smooth and the throttle transition is so linear and quick that the first time you run it up, you'll wonder if it's gonna pull the dang firewall off. hehe DA's are like no other engine...they are in a class by themselves, and when I ran mine for the first time, I realized why...they only do things one way at DA...the RIGHT way. The DA engines are not just great ones...they are perfection in every way. I can say without a doubt, that if you decide to purchase one, that it will be the best buy you ever made. That may sound like a commercial, but it's the truth. I speak from personal experience here, and have had many dealings with DA and talked with them at legnth on things, and I have never been more statisfied...those guys there have real class, and they have treated me like I was their number one customer...I've heard others say that as well. I have seen the DA on a Cap and talked with the guy that owns it in the Chat and he says it's the awesome combo. If you would like to see the 100, go here http://www.desertaircraft.com/da100.html.

Geez, all I saw was the ad...........some how I missed the Superbowl. By all means if you need to impress your buddies with how much you spent, buy the DA for bragging rights. But, I know of 3 Caps at the local field that do really well with a ZDZ-80 single. The ZDZ also has a better power/weight ratio than the DA.

The Cap is light enough that there are plenty of engine combos that will work very well. 3W-70, 3W-75, 3W-80, 3W-100, BME-80, BME-100, DA-100, Brison 6.4 all come to mind.

Wow! Lot's of discontinued motors there! 3w 70, 80, BME 80, 100 are all discontinued. You may want to go back and re-read my post a few more times...it seems like you had a hard time understanding it. I would assume the gentleman is looking for smooth power, not something that will shake his plane apart, so that leaves out the BME's and Brison. The H9 cap is built light...it's not built to take abuse...the high vibration of the BME will work on the airframe in short order. The Brison is not as bad, but the power is just not there and the availability for them is questionable. As for 3w? Some of them were pretty decent...not perfect like the DA, but decent, but sanding the phenolic block, and dealing with the midrange blurb and having to straighten the crank (when new) is just a little much to have to do to get anew engine running. ZDZ's are good engines if you keep them in a cool climate, but they DO sag in hot weather if you don't keep them rich, and like the 3w's, that means the dreaded mid-range blurb. In case you missed it again, it's now the two minute warning...do you have any real experience to share? I just gave mine...be sure and read it a few times if you have to.

Yeah the real experience is that DA doesn't have a lock on good engine design or products. DA ignitions can and do fail, just like most of the other brands. How do I know? Well my DA ignition failed on my 3W-100. The DA is a fine engine, although for the Cap I chose what I believe is a better engine for that plane (ZDZ). So far (50 flights) I like my choice. I don't need any more power.....or any more weight.

Just a quick question or two for you.
What is the retail price of the da100? what is the price of the headers, and can mufflers you talk about in your post? Do they come with the dual ign units or are they extra?

thank you.

p/s
What prop are you using and what kind of rpm are you getting out of your DA-100?

At the risk of getting caught in the cross fire I want to ask for opinions about the Zenoah GT-80. Since no one has listed it as a possible candidate for the Cap I thought I would see if anyone is using one. I bought the combo with the GT-80 and have bench run the engine through two gallons of fuel on the rich side. It will swing a Zinger Pro 24X10 at 6500 rpm with the Bisson one piece muffler which doesn't sound too bad for a piston ported anchor. Thought I would switch to a Menz Ultra 24X10 once it is installed on the airframe and ready for flight. I am in the process of hinging ailerons now.

I"m going to have to agree with Aero330LX about how much power the DA has , I personaly have a BME 102 I can turn a 26X10 RCS prop at 6500 rpm I live at 7000 ft alt , My friend purchaced a aeroworks edge 540 T arf 1/3 scale with a ZDZ 80 single on it the ZDZ would turn a menz 26X10 at 6100 rpm and would just hover up here in this high alt but he dident have any power to spare so he purchaced a DA 100 .. The DA is the most powerfull 100 cc engine I have ever seen he started out with a menz 26X10 prop to break in the engine and it turned this prop with less than a gallon of fuel at 7200 rpm he has 5 gallons through it so far and now he had to go to a larger prop because he was turning 7600 rpm and the prop was ripping in the air bad . He has so much power he can hover at less than 1/4 throttle and when he goes to full throttle he accelerates vertically so fast you wouldent belive it. Im not nocking the ZDZ 80 but it will never be able to compeat with the DA 100 . This is a fact and if the guys want to put tuned pipes on the ZDZ 80 to see if they can well all you have to do is install a set of tuned pipes on the DA 100 My friend is running a 28X12 prop on his DA 100 now and he still has more power than he knows what to do with but it did quiet it down a bunch . I'm ordering my DA next week I just hope I can get one.

It is all in how deep your pockets are
Milton

OK,
If you say you had an Ign. fail, I believe you...really, but those IGN.'s happen to be the finest on the market...do they have a 0% failure rate...no, nothing does, but saying that DA doesn't have a lock on good engine design is silly...They put those Ign.'s on 2 3w sponsored engines at the last TOC. You wouldn't happen to have run one of the 4.8v Ign's on 6v wouldya? They also accounted for 17 of 19 (I believe that's the number) of engines flown at the TOC...that wasn't because of sponsorship either...although they WERE sponsored it was up to the pilot which one he chose as the engine to fly his plane at the TOC...those guys would have their choice of any engine...as they should, and they only choose the what will give them the best in performance, and reliablity. There is more to an engine than price. Power, reliability, service, and price all have to be taken into account. You get what you pay for. There is an old saying in R/C that still holds true...buy cheap, buy twice...Buy the good stuff...buy once.The materials and the design of the DA engines are of the highest caliber...noone else uses stereo lithography or the exacting tolerances or the forward design that DA uses...guys that run these engine know that. That's why the TOC guys use them, and nearly every other IMAC, and Masters leading pilots use them. The weight difference between the DA and a ZDZ is negligable...I can see where you would see a difference between the 3w and the ZDZ though as the weight difference is MUCH more. I am not knocking the ZDZ...I stated in my previous post that it's a good engine...but you can't compare it to a DA...it's just in a completely different class. I wasn't knocking any engine for that matter...just pointing out some of the limitations of them so the gentleman could make an informed buying decision.

Hi,
The DA 100 price as advertised is $1150.00 and that does include the IGN. If you were referring to dual (as in 2 IGN.'s) the second one would be extra. There are a few different choices of headers and cans they offer. They offer a solid, flex, and header kit that can be custom made out of pieces to fit your plane...they also offer PEFA and KS canister pipes, as well as "full-wave" (I know, really a misnomer that full-wave stuff) pipes. I wouldn't recommend the full pipes though. The ones I am using personally are the KS 70cc cans and the KS Syainless header kit. I took the pieces and fabricated the headers myself for the plane. The price of that setup is 110.00x2 for the pipes and approximately 50 dollars for the header kit. I can't remember the exact price because I ordered a couple extra pieces to add to the headers to make a special setup for this particular plane. These pipes are on this plane not so much for power, but to quiet it. I am currently using two different props. I have the Mejzlik 28-10 2 blade on there at present and it tachs 6700 rpms and has maybe 2 gallons through it, so that is not representative of what it will turn after it's fully broke-in. I also have the AM 26-12 3 blade but have only bolted it on to see how quiet it was, and it's a whisper prop. I would expect that it would turn what others have told me in the 6100-6200 range. I am also gonna test a MSC 26-10 at the Joe Nall...these props have VERY wide chords to them and load the engine down extremely well for quiet running and tractor-like pulling from the reports I gotten, but I want to try that first to see how it agreees with my flying style. Alot of the guys say the MSC is a really good 3d prop because of the brute pull it has in the verticals and out of hovers...they also state it torque rolls really well. I know that the 3 blade is more of a smooth precision flying prop. The Mej. is just plain ballistic...verticals are effortless, and the plane will accelerate in a vertical like a bottle-rocket....seriously, that's no exageration...the first couple time I shot the power to it I had to come back off it...don't like yanking on it that hard. The power does take some getting used to, but it comes in very handy in the wind. The plane will pill through manuvers slow and easy like the wind wasn't there. You can throttle the plane for smooth slow effortless looking sequences. It really is nice. I have to give credit to these guys who made all this stuff, because i have never flow a plane that flew this good. Not even the pattern planes I used to fly flew like these planes do. It really makes it nice. Well, i hope some of this info. helps you some.

The DA ignition failed while using a 4-cell NiMH pack. Like I said, I have seen failures of nearly ALL brands of ignition. Only the manufacturers know the statistical failure rate, as users we can only guess from the # of problems we see at the local field or read about on the net.

Also, since I am located in a region of dense, high pressure air, our engines run much better than you guys who live up in the mountains. I'll bet a dollar to a donut that my ZDZ-80 makes more power here than anyone's DA-100 does at 7,000 feet. Mine turns a Menz 27x10 prop with mucho gusto. Also, our planes fly much better on the nice dense air we have. Now why do you want to live up in that thin air?

Before you read this just remember that it is NOT intended to start a" whose eng is better argument."

The da has 20cc over the zdz eng. From adding up your cost to outfit the DA to what you have now works out to close to a thousand dollars difference between the two engines.

The zdz seems to be turning aprox 400-500 rpm less than the DA on the same size props. (this comes from different threads and pilot info shared here on UNMODIFIED props and no tuned pipes)

The zdz-80 is lighter than the DA. I personally have not seen a DA 100 run so i can't comment on the vibration levels of this eng. But seeing that it is a twin i will assume that it runs very smoothly. My personal experience with 2-ZDZ-60's and a 80 is that the 60 has very little vibration. The 80 will shake the plane if the idle is set to low. Other than that, it runs very smooth once the needles are set correctly.

I guess if i was given 2 engines at the TOC i'd run them no matter what the make as long as they were reliable.
All those pilots put in a tremendous amount of flying during the season so parts availability and close factory support have to count for something.

I guess my point is, if you want a twin and can afford it go for it!! If you want a engine that is 20cc shy of the twin but is lighter and only down a few hundred rpm from the DA and aprox. $1000. dollars cheaper then go for the ZDZ!!

I guess it comes down to what you want more.

ttyl

I am getting ready to purchase the new h9 sukhoi. Can someone please give me their thoughts on a DA motor or BME. I was leaning towards a BME 100. Not concerned on pricing, Just reliability and power. I also would like to know if anyone has one of these motors in the new h9 sukhoi. Im concerned with room. I think someone said the bme 100 would fit with 1/4" on both plugs. well this is my first post, I just joined. This place is awesome.

The H9 Sukhoi is a light plane like the Cap. 24 lbs or less is possible. Guys are flying them with 80-100cc motors. The real issue is balance. They seem to come out tail heavy with the light motors. Then they add a couple of pounds of nose weight..so the weight approaches 26-27 lbs. At the higher weight, a 100cc motor makes more sense for a strong power/weight ratio. BME is working on a new engine (extreme 110), DA has their proven design 100cc engine, 3W just released a 106cc engine, and ZDZ jsut released a 100cc twin. All will require nose weight. You could also pick up the older and heavier (7lb) 3W-100, then you wouldn't need to add the weight. You could probably find a good deal on the older 3W.

Originally quoted by: Aero330LX

This an interesting but false assertion! (at least when made as a reason not to purchase a ZDZ engine)

I really hate to get into this, but I must.

I started importing and selling ZDZ engines 4 years ago as an extension of my model hobby. Ran a few ads, put up a website, sold a few engines and the user reports came back "wow great engines". So I poured some more money and time into it and set the selling prices based on my concept ... that model airplane engines gas engines cost too much.... I still maintain this pricing position, however: My sales margins are lower , but my costs are not . I doubt if these much difference in the production and support costs between any of the gas engine manufacturers. Certainly the advertising costs are the same. So it gets down to; how do you set the prices? RC Showcase believes that someone has to take the lead in lowering the prices of these engines. We have decided to be that company. As a result we have seen the success of the ZDZ engines in the market place and the falling prices of the competitors. ZDZ Modelmotor sells many, many engines around the world and has expanded their factory size and capacity twice in the last three years. This growth is based on a simple fact: Quality and Reliability sell products.


This is also a simple truth: RC Showcase and ZDZ Modelmotor provide quality products and support services at reasonable prices and will continue to do so..


By the way, the reason for no ZDZ engines at TOC is that there is a TOC rule that models with wings 3000 sq. in. and under are limited to a maximum engines size of 152 cc. We had a lot of interest in the ZDZ 160 B2 from TOC pilots until this rule was discovered.


David Garrison
RC Showcase
Should our company motto be:
"Gas engines for the masses"? or, for you really old folks " a gas engine in every pot"? (from an election slogan during the depression era.)
http://www.rcshowcase.com

Thanks Diablo! Weight is a main concern, if it were you what would you choose? Zenoah80 is recommended, but I havent heard much on this engine, only that it might be a shade underpowered for certain tricks. I might just change gears and go with a aeroworks 33% extra 330L ARF. Im not sure of the difference in flying a extra vs. sukhoi. This is my first 3D plane, but both look good. Your thoughts!

Because of the balance issue with the Sukhoi, I'd wait for the next H9 33% ARF to come out. Or look around for the H9 Cap. The goal should be to get the plane down in the 24 lb range so you have more engine choices. I'd avoid the GT-80, not enough power/$. The least expensive option is the ZDZ-80. Any decent twin with power will cost $1200+ with mufflers new.

Don't know about the AW Extra. The 33% Edge is a good plane, but typically weighs 29+ lbs - so it usually needs a strong 100cc twin for 3D. You could wait on the Extra to find out how heavy they turn out.