FlyandMighty

Kwik

thanks for doing the math. What it end up with is a brown plug on the right cylinder and a black/wet plug on the left side. I have run the engine at the peak. if I clean the plugs it starts fine. i get 2 or 3 10 min filghts with the occasional drop out mostly during a roll. then 3r d or 4 th flight it won't hand start. I did the 50 % throttle with starter to get it started but had to run it for about a minute on the ground to clear it out and get it running stable. then more cut outs in the air but it never quits entirely. Pulled the plugs at the end of the day one brown one black/wet...check valves, check ignition, check fuel, check plumbing, check filters (2). check mix and throttle response on ground with clean plugs fine. RPMs are 5940 with bambula 22x10 laminated prop. (good prop by the way). engine runs fine with cowl off. 10 min runs on the ground produce full power and no drop outs. but the plugs look the same. AAHH

kwik

And you cannot lean the L-needle just a tiny bit? Surely this must be the "One intake manifold longer than the other" syndrome?

I have never touched the H-needle....one wonders what implications that has....

FlyandMighty

I'll keep at it. all the suggestions have been great. more to follow once I get it sorted.

Pete Bergstrom

Sorry for my long absence - I've been traveling. I'll try to address a few of the problems noted here.

James - I believe a tweak to the lsn should solve your problems. The low end is probably a bit rich and the hesitation you describe is at the transition point in the throttle as the low speed needle is moving. As you are technically still 'breaking in' the engine for the first 3-5 gallons, performance will improve but that will come with small needle changes because the internal pumping action of the engine improves as the ring seats in. You might have done a good break-in job with the first flight and the rings are really starting to seat now ... that would explain the difference between flight number 1 and 2. Why it doesn't show this characrteristic on the ground is that the propeller loading in the air is substantially different than on the ground. The prop is always in clean air and the load is lower in the air. Try leaning the low speed needle and fly again.

Rich needle settings from the factory - The factory settings are indeed richer than needed to insure adequate fuel and lubrication during the first few ground runs and break-in runs. We want to make sure there is adeqaute lubrication to the lower end of the conrods during these important first runs. After the initial 30 minutes time you can start to lean out the needles to more appropriate settings.

One plug wet, one plug dry - In any two cylinder engine using a single carb it is virtually impossible to get both cylinders to run at exactly the same mixture. You'll note that the intake tube lengths are different already from the factory and this is done to balance the two cylinders as best as possible. For those who have a wet/fouled plug on one cylinder you are running the engine too rich in some regime, either hsn or lsn. I would start first with the hsn. And yes, when we say slightly rich we mean to run the engine at the point where you don't hear any misses from the engine when it is on the ground. The difference in rpm is virtually impossible to detect on a tachometer, it is more of an ear thing. And then do your final needle settings based on what you hear from the engine in the air once the prop unloads. If you are hearing occasional misses from the engine you are too rich, if the rpm falls off when you go into a climb with the engine you are too lean. Make the appropriate adjustments.

Choking the engine for hand starts - Try this process:

1. With the ignition off, use the included choke rodd and pull on the throttle barrel. This pulls the idle needle away from its receptacle and allows fuel to pass. Rotate the engine by pulling it through clockwise (opposite normal rotation) through 10 cycles.
2. Remove the choke rod, turn on the ignition and hand flip in the normal direction. If the engine doesn't start in about 6 flips repeat the procdure again.

6.4 oz of oil in a gallon of gasoline is the correct mix.

The best plug gap we have found on these engines is .028" or .7mm. This seems to provide the strongest spark and can lead to higher rpms if you are changing from a smaller plug gap.

FlyandMighty - I apologize for the missing screws and loose sensor. I have spoken with our service department and this is certainly not typical of the way we operate. Unfortuantely we are all human and mistakes do occasionally occur.

I hope this helps.

Pete

FlyandMighty

Thanks Pete! Great info.

kwik

Regarding the drop-out when rolling;

I have a friend who has used the FG-36 for a looooong time now.It is running like clockwork for him. He runs it at 3% oil.

Yes.

I am now using 4% oil on mine, and that seems to help on the drop-out. I dont dare going down to 3%, as he so galantly does, but will fly on 4% now for a while.

Mine are incredibly easy to handstart now that the needles are correctly adjusted.

-Ignition off.
-Chole on using the thumb.
-Full throttle
-Flip until thumb gets wet
-No choke
-Ignition on
-Idle throttle
-One or two flips.

Testing it in a TF 190;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntR6cQhRZa0

FlyandMighty

Got mine going really good. Just needle issues. Wasn't setting the low lean enough. On the subject of 5% oil causing drop outs when rolling. I'd like an explanation. Does not seem possible but what do I know? I thought that heat was getting into the air intake during the roll causing the drop out. Mine usually does not drop out until after 7 or 8 min into the flight. 4% oil? That's 6oz as compared to 6.4oz. Like to know how it works our keep us informed....

kwik

Yes, I know; I don't know.

But it helped immediately on mine as well. Somethimes one just has to accept a remedy, without explanation.

Following the ellimination method, sort of.

But I agree, knowing the explanation is much better. Much, much better.

If you got rid of the problem, then all is well for you too.

lepo

Hi friends,

I started break-in in January. Did it exactly as proposed in the operating instruction. I'm using Shell 100 oct. with 5% Belray H1R. What should I say, the engine ran perfectly from the beginning. Now it has 12 flights in my Me35 and I still run it a bit lean (Rpm on ground 6200, MZ 22 x 10 Prop). The fg57 ts runs absolutely stable at idling and rpm raises linearly to peak. Before I go flying, I inject a little Belray-oil throught the breather nipple and turn the prop several times to make sure that the lubrication in the crankcase is ok. What confuses me a bit is that the instructions say to stop the engine by fuel-cut to empty the carburator. This is not what I learned till now. I thought the rubber parts in a carburator should not be dried out and I always let fuel in the carburators of my 2-stroke engines. But nevertheless I stop my Saito after a flightday by fuel-cut.
I'll report again after the next flight-periods

This is my My Me35. I won't put the cowling because the engine looks too nice.

Horst

Rudolph Hart

Welcome lepo.Your comments on your experience with the fg57 echo mine except i'm not sure if you have tweaked the needles.I hav'nt touched mine.Also used the mz 22x10 for run in and get a steady 6000 rpm with instant throttle up and down completely to a steady idle.Kwik posts some good vids and i would like to see the 190 doing it's stuff in the air.Kwik i also noticed in the vid that when you throttled down it took the engine a couple of seconds to settle down to a proper idle or were you playing with the throttle? is the lsn a bit lean...maybe next time PB is here he could comment.

Lepo that aeroplane is going to look real pretty in the air friend.

The reason they like you to run the engine dry is so that the rubber diaphram is'nt left with oil on it after the fuel has evaporated inside the carby.If i have the cowl off i pull the rocker covers and dribble some atf down the tubes in the hope of wetting the cams up as well..

Rudolph Hart

ps as for plug colour mine are both a light brown,have always been like that.

Pete Bergstrom

In my experience with the situation you are describing (idle starts high and then drops little by little) is that the low speed needles are actually a little rich, not lean. When you are running the lsn rich you generally will have more air entering the carb to match the higher fuel feed of the rich lsn. When you reduce your throttle to idle, this large carb opening results in higher idle rpms until the engine loads up with the additional fuel from the rich setting and then the rpm decreases.

In this case you should try leaning out the lsn a little at a time, and you will have to adjust your idle trim or throttle end points to reduce the carb opening to get the lower idle rpm. I have three things to watch for when you do this:

1. After leaning the lsn check the hsn setting to make sure it is not too lean. These needles interact with each other and will effect each other to some extent.
2. Check the throttle transition after making these changes. My preferred method of setting the lsn is to judge the quality of the transition rather then the ultimate low idle rpm. If there is a crisp throttle response from low to high then you are certainly in the ball park. If you lean out the lsn too much you can actually starve the engine of fuel in a quick transition and it will either stumble or actually quit on acceleration. Conversely if you are too rich on the bottom there will be a slow transition to full throttle while the engine burns off the excess fuel.
3. It is also a good idea to use cylinder head temperature to judge the proper low speed needle settings. I highly recommend this because it will tell you if all of your cooling at low to mid throttle is coming from airflow through cowl/engine fins or if there is some cooling coming from the fuel charge getting into the engine. If all the cooling is coming from the airflow then you have, in effect, a double edged sword waiting to damage the engine. To wit, if the engine is too lean on the low end then the actual cylinder head temps will go up because of the leaner mixture exactly at a time when the airflow through the cowl is being reduced by lower airspeeds. Using a CHT probe wrapped directly around the spark plug on the hotter cylinder will show if this is a problem.
a. In air after a full throttle run. If when you reduce the throttle you see an immediate increase in CHT that remains constant or actually increases, this is a good indicator that your lsn is set too lean.
b. Same situation, but upon reducing the throttle you see a spike followed quickly by a decrease in temperature then you have a safe low speed needle setting that will provide some fuel cooling and protection for your engine in the air.

I hope this helps.

Pete

SrTelemaster150

If you want to see where your ignition timing ends up, here is a thread I started about setting up CDI.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1774802

You can use the spark plug as an "alarm" as the sytem will generate spark even when the magnet passes under the Hall sensor @ very low speed. Just watch the degree wheel & listen for the spark. Gas should run best @ about 28° to 30° BTDC initial setting.

The pointer needn't be sophisticated. A piece of baling wire clamped to the rushrod cover will do as long as it isn't bent/moved after establishing TDC.

A suitable stop can be made from a gutted sparkplug & a machine screw/jam nut. Round the end that contacts the piston.

lepo

Hi friends,

march was perfect for flying. I am absolutely happy with my fg57. Runs perfectly and now has a total runtime of 14 hours (58 flights) and still is improving power. Only the first start of a flightday is a bit a problem. Choking needs about 20 to 25 flips before it starts. The following starts after the first one are no problem. After a flightday I stop the engine by fuelcut as proposed in the instructions. May be I shouldn't do that.

kwik

Hello friends!

Lepo ;

Regarding choking;


On my Fw 190 I can choke it by putting my finger over the trumpet. I flip the propeller until the finger gets wet.

After the finger gets wet, it starts after 1-2 flips.

On the Corsair, I tried using the tool. Couldnt get it to start. Used a starter instead. Using the powerful geared hobbyking starter on Lipos.

I have one FG-36 and two FG-57's.

The FG 36 is on a ESM Stuka, and it started hesitating a lot this spring. I have been running it in winthertime earlier with not so much problems.

It can suddenly hesitate, and then run normal again. Just like the FG-57's.

But I didnt react to it; it seemed normal. The hesitation, I mena; Sounds like you put it in another gear, and then it runs fine again.

The other day, after one normal flight with the "normal" hesitation, it stopped completely in the air. The Stuka chrashed, and is now
resting, I will see if I get the stomach to fix it again. Puh!

EDIT: I had a look at the Stuka now, and I noticed the plug cap dangling underneath it; I think it wasnt properly in place, and simply fell off up there in flight.

I think that was the reason for the stop !

I wonder if the hesitation is just a matter of the engine being too lean.

w8ye

My Feedback: (16)

The warmer weather would make them run richer

FlyandMighty

If you follow the procedure in the manual it can flood easily. I have modified the first start procedure in this manner. Close the throttle completely, use the choke rod as described in the manual. Rotate the prop clockwise until you hear the fuel hissing sound described in the manual. Now turn it 2 more times and that is it. Turn on the ignition and it should fire in one or two flips. The manual tends to over prime. That is my experience

SrTelemaster150

^^^^ x2 ^^^^

lepo

Choking for the first start

Thanks for your pieces of advice. I'll try next time.

kwik

Here is the baffling in my TF 190;



I glued two other halves into the cowling front , so that I can screw them to the two parts with screws from the front.

I think you can see the bolt heads in the from-front picture.

It is easy to get the cowling on-off this way.

Baffling on ESM Corsair;

roystonflyer

Hi

Do you have any drawings or dimensions for the FW190 baffles please?? Do both the wooded units in the first picture glue to the bulkhead or to the inside of the cowl??

Thanks

Sean

kwik

I bolted them to the bulkhead.

All freehand construction on the fly, so, no dimensions.

Sorry.

But it is straight forward, really. Not rocket science, just some carpentery.

roystonflyer

Ok thanks... so you bolted them to the bulkhead then glued 2 formers into the cowl so they screwed to the new baffles... is that correct??

kwik

yes.

roystonflyer

Excellent... thankyou...