camdyson

Hopefully today’s wind back in Qld is a step closer to flying for you guys up there. Have to settle for annoying the neighbours with running-in down here in Vic. 😁
Just finished installing thermocouple sensors, so will get a better idea how the temps are going on the next run.

DarthFlyer

What temp should the cylinders be on an Saito FG-60R3?

DarthFlyer

what operating temp should cylinder be on an Saito FG-60R3?

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

I don't recall there being a need to work on the Carb anywhere on the thread. I'm not sure there is a need to fix something not broken.
The carb has a pump and I've not run into issue with the carb.
Cover the exhaust and turn over the engine a few times it will pressurize the tank and feed fuel to the carb.
Don't make it more complicated simpler is always better
Sparky

JieM

There is no connection between exhaust and tank. So, no tank pressurization to "help" the carb....
JM

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

JM,
Sorry, I didn't know how you lines are plumbed. Are you hand starting the engine or using a starter? If a starter I would guess it really isn't needed. Since bench running the engine I have only hand started my engine, I think when hand starting I flipped 10 times the first flight of the day and then after that typically 2-3 flips. Your configuration is different so if you replace the carb but you are dealing with a lot of unknowns issues. My Carb works fine and from what I see here no one else is having an issue with it either.
Sparky

merlin52

sorry guys i really should have stated plumbing and starting
the tank is normally asparated (open to atmosphere ASL) not pressurised (ASL - ABOVE SEA LEVEL)
When i was flying in the north of India the ASL was different to were we set up in the UK we changed carbs and resetup and they were away with the birds (pardon the pun) the same thing applies to any were in the world (as we fave found out to our constanation)
i only hand flip 4-5 times, my engines which range from 10cc petrol coversion to 660cc petrols if i have to use a starter then there is something wrong with MY engine setup /fuel system
the walbro carb has a choke facility and built in pump to draw fuel into the carb and prime's it, when the engine starts the choke knocks off and a slightly high tick over depending were ive set my engine trim.
i do not know a great deal about the workings of the saito carb system that is why i asked the question on this part of the forum to find out about differences (leaving ASL out of the equation)
there are carb conversions available hence is there any benefits
thank you for taking the time to reply

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

I am not aware that being at any elevation affects how the engine starts. What is the field elevation?
The Saito Carb is a Pump Carb it does pump, I didn't open my Carb up but it looks to be very similar in design to a Walbro.
If you have a starter handy spinning it will have it running in short order, after you verify that it isn't liquid locked.
You still didn't mention how your tank is plumed, 2 lines or three lines?
I am almost always 2 lines my Saito is plumbed with two lines
To me it sounds like you are trying to fix something that isnt broken
Sparky

merlin52

It is not a question of fixing some thing that is not broken * 3lines 1,600 ft

I belive that the content of my origional question has been totally missed
Thank you for taking the time to answer

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

1,600' MSL isn't going to appreciably effect the performance on your engine.
Restate the question If I missed something.....
Sparky

cathurga

The carb on the FG60 is actually a pretty good little carb! It is a pumper carb, and the pump works pretty well. They are very similar to a nitro carb with regards to the HSN and LSN setups. Like a glow carb, they have a spray bar that the HSN needle goes into, and the LSN is a cover that goes over. The main difference is the pump component. I have opened them up, in fact did so today, and as basic as they are, they work very well. They DO NOT have a choke, and for good reason, and that is that they can be very susceptible to flooding. Blocking the venturi cause it to such fuel DIRECTLY through and having an open throttle makes it worse. They need a little priming, and as long as the throttle is opened a little, it will pull fuel. They dont seem too fussy on tank height and as long as the tank isnt too far away, they are good to go. I dont think it is at all necessary to swap to a walbro, these work fine.

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

Again he spent more words than I but please state your reason for swapping out the carb...
If you do swap then out send the one you remove to me I can always use a spare!
Sparky

757jonp

My Feedback: (48)

I've read about a few guys that changed over to the Walbro carb with mixed results and some went back to the Saito carb. Like Andy said, it's kind of an odd critter, but once you understand how it works and get it dialed in it's great. One thing I've found is the low speed needle on mine was "loose" and wouldn't hold it's position and drove me nuts for awhile until I put in an extra o ring on it to tighten it up. No problems since.

merlin52

Cathurga
Thank you for taking the time to answer the thread in a clear succinct way, now i have an explanation to my query
757jonp
Thanks for the tip on the "o"ring
elmshoot
thanks for looking

MDavis28

Here is a video I made in adjusting the valves.

nswords

The loud music in the video makes it hard to hear it all. respectfully

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

Thanks for posting the video. Good explanation and demonstration of the process. Some of the terminology and concepts you said might need correcting: The engine turn counterclockwise. All reference on airplanes is generally from the pilots point of view sitting in the CP so it really turns CW but it is perspective. Current Saito design across the entire board is aluminum Cly with steel pushrods so as the engine heats up from running the gap on the valves actually increases because the cly will grow slightly more than the steel pushrods. Having the gap a little Tight is OK. In fact the only way a properly adjusted valve will change is from wear so if the gap is too tight on reinspection it wasn't set correctly the previous time.
I have gone to using a cellophane from a cigarette pack. as my gauge. Really all you need is "some play" at TDC.
On this engine the valves are NOT interference fit. By that I mean if the valve stays open when the cly moves through TDC it wont contact the piston. I think all Saito are the same design but you mileage may vary.
Lastly you mentioned the engine had been updated or some modifications had been done but the audio cut out can you tell which mods have been done?
I fly my Saito on a 29 pound Hellcat I use almost full power most of the time but it does a fine job! It keeps up with the Gaggle just fine at the various fly ins I've been to.

Good job on the video.
Sparky

MDavis28

I tried not to have it too loud I know there is a spot that did get loud but for what ever reason it wouldn’t get quieter no matter what I did editing wise. I’m still looking for a better editor. This was all edited on my phone. My laptop crashed so it is what it is.

I knew the cellophane comment would appear. Yes that would be an ideal way to adjust. But I don’t smoke or know anyone that does. So... an you are also correct about the perspective of being on the pilot seat. Just a few minor imperfections but it is what it is.

I do hope it was helpful but mostly enjoyable. Thanks for the feedback.

MDavis28

Nsword you are right. The intro music is to loud for sure. And it does get loud at at or during the 7 min area. sorry bud.

elmshoot, I don’t have any mods to this engine. Only replacement cylinders from horizon hobby. The first three years each cylinder was replaced per year due to cracking. No.3 never really let go but developed an oil leak at one of the back mounting tabs. I replaced no. 2 while Horizion replaced no. 1 & 3.

thanks again guys. I appreciate the feed back and the time you took to watch my video. Hope you have a great day.

elmshoot

My Feedback: (6)

So yours is bone stock? Well except for the replacement Cly....... Glad to read Horizon own up to some of the repairs.....
Is your timing is still stock? Did you have the groove cut in the top of the piston? I think that was a later modification.
You actually have less invested in your motor even with the replacement Cly than most of us.
Good job explaining things.
Sparky

MDavis28

Yes all stock. My pistons are dished. Sorta. Here is a pic. I purchased mine back in 2015 it arrived with a dead ignition system. Horizion replaced it and everything was fine until Joe Nall 2016. On Friday I had my first cracked cylinder. Unfortunately Horizion had already packed up and went home by the time I thought about showing them the engine there at the event. All in all Horizion has handled cylinder replacement like a champ. I’m hoping my baffling keeps the new-er cylinders from cracking. Only time will tell. I thought I had seen on here that a new cylinder design had been made. I would love to get my hands on them. They had a thicker base that was filled in and looked more robust. Yup I’d like to have them but I hope to not need them.

nswords

Its still an informative video, I'm just hard of hearing.

Tom ling

Hi guys, I am looking at buying the Fg-60, I will take the 55cc out of my acrowot XL and put it in the front to run it in, in the air. The agm55 is turning a 21x10 at about 6200 on the floor, I understand the FG-60 will turn a 22x10 at 6000 ish, is this what you find in the real world? (it will have the MMM timing ring and intake mod fitted)


could anyone please let me know what size props and rpm people are getting. I would like to fit a carbon beila 21x10 3 blade on to get the nice low idle and in visible carbon it just looks cool too. But I’m wondering if there will be a noticeable drop in performance over the 22x10 prop. Iv never flown with a 3 blade prop before. Thanks Tom.

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

Yes, the Saito will turn a two blade 22x10 at 62-6500 on the ground. A 21x10 3 blade is probably too much prop and will overheat the engine quickly.

Tom ling

thanks mate for the info, at least I know it’s as powerful if not slightly more :-) I think Morris at MmM ran a scale 21x10 3 blade so I would of thought it should be ok? But not sure like you say what the
load would be like on the engine. Not worth the risk if it’s too much, I thought you just lowered an inch to go up a prop blade?