marksp

My Feedback: (9)

yeah...me too!

I called to confirm with Kelvin (Keleo). He shared with me that he adds the needle per Ray's (Ray English) suggestion. I called and spoke with Ray who shared that the pressurization helps the pumped carb.

BDKelly

Thanks scubaozy,
Your thoughts gave me another idea that I'll use temporarily. I pinched the vent line and gave the fuel tank a couple gentle squeezes. This forces fuel to the carb and it starts in about 2 or 3 flips.

One more question for the group though. This is my first gasser and I don't know what kind of exhaust mess to expect. At the 20:1 gasil ratio there is a fair amount of oil coming out. I'm not so worried about that, but the oil is black and sooty. Is this normal?

Thanks again

chorner

I was wondering the same about the black sooty oil - and if you should just see that mostly during initial break-in, though I am using an additive for more protection

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

20:1 it's unavoidable. At 15:1 which is what I run, it's even worse. You might want to apply some automotive wax to bottom of fuselate to provide some protection and make certain you have proper protection for your transport vehicle.

Cheers

BDKelly

Thanks. Why 15:1? Just being conservative, or is there some experience out there that says we shouldn't use 20:1?

You asked earlier about round engine options for your R60. What happened to the Staggerwing? I've seen the Lysander too, and it looks quite good. Another is the Maxford GeeBee model Y. Not the stubby famous R1, but the Sportster with generous tail.. Should fly nice, and being golden age has large wheels that will go nicely on that bumpy grass field.

http://www.maxfordusa.com/gm-jenny-105-soild-1.aspx

Here are some pics of my scratch 1/5 Mr. Mulligan. Ready for first flight as soon as I get the nerve.....

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

Mulligan looks fantastic!

Saito manual states 15:1 - 20:1 and my non bushed FG33R3 needs as much oil as possible so I simply use the same mix for both.

deadstick79

I have the TF FW 190 for it but am considering maybe getting the Seagull Monocoupe 110 first

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

Much of the black oily crud is coming from the crankcase breather vent.

cathurga

I have changed from 15:1 and getting the engine up to as lean as I will go with it, and the black oil out the exhaust is lessening. I am not concerned about this sort of thing anyway, I like knowing that oil is getting through the engine, where it needs to be. Out the exhaust is only lubing the outlet valve, so not that important. I Like knowing that the crankcase breather is getting oil through it. As mentioned before, the No1 cylinder valve train is a lot 'dryer' than the lower two, and I am going to take the time to remove the rocker covers and oil the valve train, after every hour of flight. After some time, will make that time every two hours of running.

Ok, for all of you with the Walbro carbs, I am not really happy with the way mine is performing, and I will most likely move to the original carb again soon. Brian Wrinch noted in an article about the Saito gasser carbs, is the fact that the radials have the plastic tube between backplate and carb, is there as a heat shield. The Walbro has not such thing, and the morris conversion has an aluminium connection. Carbs don't like heat, and can cause many problems with fuel vaporisation etc...based on all of this, I think I am going to revert to the Saito carb, and find a better way to access the tuning for LS.
Now all I need to do is try to get my hands on the carb pipe, the plastic one....it is a part of the US$69 throttle body, I am not paying that now, maybe try and turn something down from Teflon or similar...

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

Agree access to the LSN makes a huge difference in fun/effort ratio.

ALFIEV

So..... after much tooing and froing I finally flew my R60 in the TF Zero. I have to say that it was very impressive. Plenty of power running the XOAR Carbon 2-blade prop at 6000 rpm. The engine never missed a beat. I would have flown a second time, but one of my expensive Robart main gears bent a pin in the retract electric retract and so I had to call it a day there.

Black oily mess appears to be unavoidable at 20:1. I have held a white rag under the exhaust at high rpm and noted that most of the oil was coming from the crankcase breather, not so much from the actual exhaust.

beaver1234

Hey guys,

So I am new to 4 stroke engines. I have a few 2 stroke engines with walbro carbs which can be annoying at times but usually not so bad. I am thinking about the 60r3 from saito with a morris walbro carb conversion as I don't like the glow like carb on it. I have read some people having issues with this engine. As long as you keep the heads tight and adjust the valves here and there and run 20:1 redline or thicker which I run 40:1 redline in all my 2 strokes, would you call it a reliable engine. I want to put it in a beaver float plane. Also if any of you are using the morris carb, what is the recommended needle starting settings for it. Not on the manual from saito but for the morris carb mod? Also is the mod an easy bolt on? Anything I should know about? Also was going to run a 3 blade carbon prop. Maybe a biela. What would be my best prop that doesn't overload the engine and gives good torque. Thanks!

BDKelly

For beaver 1234, I have broken in my R60 and now flown it once. No problems at all. I haven't touched the factory setting for idle mixture. I have no reason to believe the carb is any problem so far.

Question for the group: The fuel vent line I've attached to the nipple on the Keleo exhaust ring gets soft, melts a little and then disconnects even though I have a Dubro fuel clamp on it. Has anyone else had this problem? Is there fuel tubing that can take the heat? Or might you suggest I ran it too lean?

Thanks

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

Try the high-temp fuel tubing

http://www.horizonhobby.com/medium-g...ter%29-evoa102

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

@beaver1234

The low speed needle on stock carb is fairly difficult to access, is super sensitive and in some instances, requires frequent adjustment. I suspect interest in the Walbro is based on familiarity and "set and forget" experience. Having said that, juries out on how well it works.

BTW, Beila 20x10x3 was shared earlier in thread.

What Beaver airframe do you have?

beaver1234

Ok thanks guys. So you recon I would be ok as I was going to order the walbro carb and install it from the getco. I still tweak my needles here and there on my 2 strokes which is ok as long as there isn't much in the way of cracked heads or whatever. I really want and hope the walbro conversion works because as I mentioned I really prefer what I am used to.

Is the tuning straightforward compared to that of a 2 stroke. Is the to lean to rich instances obvious enough with the 4 stroke radial thrown into the equation?

I was planning on breaking it in on a test stand. How would you reccommend going about that and do you need to put a gas blower on it to cool it down for heat cycling as it is not in the air? I have never broken an engine in on the ground? How many tanks?

Is a 20x10x3 enough torque and a good load but not too much?

It will be on a eventual hanger 9 30cc beaver.

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

I haven't found it necessary to adjust the low speed needle after the first couple of flights. I have an extension on the high speed needle and I do often tweak it a little.

beaver1234

For the walbro conversion do you need an extra o ring. Seems like there was a post about air leaks and there needs to be one in the carb and the other between the carb and intake or something? A diagram would help. Is the stock carb sufficient? Can you add an extension on the low end too? I like choke as I use with my 2 strokes to start. Is there an easy way to pull fuel through without pulling lines off or what have you. I saw one guy added a cork on a servo to choke. It again makes me want to go right to the walbro conversion from the getco. I just don't want air leaks, tuning, running problems.

Are you guys breaking the engine in during flight. Any have any dead sticks due to a bad tune?

chorner

Hey guys, I'll try and take a photo of my installation later but the low-end needle isn't too tough to get at if you fashion your own flat blade. Sounds daunting... but in reality I just took an old pushrod and ground a flat-end blade with a dremel. I think glued/wrapped the other end of the blade with some tape (like hockey stick tape) for grip. You can make it as long as you need to... and for me, I was just careful to line up a hole I cut in the cowl with the LSN location. I used a small rubber O type grommet as a guide that I clued right into the hole cut out of the cowl.

SWORDSN

My Feedback: (13)

Saito instructs you to break it in on a test stand with oil as much as 15 to 1 . I think most people on this thread have done that.

beaver1234

Cool. So Saito says there pump isn't very strong and to put the tank below and as close to the engine as possible. I very may well have to try the walbro conversion. I'm not sure. What is your hand starting procedure? Also it mentions in the manual that if you don't follow the steps to get the fuel out of the engine carb etc the ethanol will corrode the crank and ruin the engine. I was going to just run it out of fuel at the end of the season other than that and value adjustments, bolts etc not do anything. Does it take CM-6 spark plugs?

Anyone with the walbro conversion having success and what are your needle settings as well as did you need any more parts than what was included in the conversion?

radfordc

My Feedback: (14)

That's an easy one....don't use gas with ethanol. All the stations here sell pure gas for a few cents more. If you can't find pure gas at your stations try checking at a small airport. Most have pumps that sell 100LL aviation fuel. If not there, you can buy racing fuel at some hot rod stores.

marksp

My Feedback: (9)

Boat marinas and rural/ag service stations also offer non-ethanol gasoline.

cathurga

I have done the Walbro conversion, and I have to say, that I am not impressed with its performance or function. I have two FG60's, and both of them were converted. One of them I bought from a contributor to this forum and although I have not run it, it is a completely different to the carb I got for mine. I am sure the concept is valid, but I haven't had much luck with them. My engine ran better when it was on the original carb. I agree that tuning is difficult with the saito carb, but only on the HS, LS is a pain to get to and is not as 'set & forget' as people say, unless it is my conditions and situation that makes it so. I am waiting for some parts on the second engine, and will try it with the walbro, but I see myself converting it back to stock.
Remember, when you do the conversion, you have to destroy the orange connector between carb and engine, and this part is not sold separately, it is par of the throttle body assembly that costs US$69. I have a friend with a small lathe and he has turnd down some material to create a new part, and the best fit is Bakelite. We tried Teflon as well and the results weren't good. You cannot use aluminium for this part as it performs the function of being an insulator to keep heat away from the carb....
I will add that I live in very hot and humid environment and have battled to get a good tune on this engine, I also think there might be some compression problems with my engine on no2 cylinder, so until I can verify that the problem is 100% diagnosed, I should remain impartial. I will say though, that the original carb was apparently designed by Saito and Walbro, and I am having regrets at changing a setup that most people have said works fine. My advise, save your money on the Walbro, and concentrate your efforts on getting a simpler way to get to the LSN. Don't make your life difficult.

cathurga

This is the part that has the isolator/inlet, the orange part is difficult/impossible to remove without destroying