ZDZ problem resolved
08-24-2006, 06:00 PM
#26
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
Some observations if I may. Of all the major engine manufacturers I've seen to date, this is pretty much the way it's gone.
Two manufacturers advertise heavily and provide a few engines to the top competitors for promotional exposure purposes. One domestic, one foreign. Of those two, one will always give you a bunch of crap if you return an engine or product and will usually tell you that their engines are perfect, always, and that you did something wrong. The other usually accepts the engine or product with a smile and either repairs the original or provides a new one at no cost. His sales are always constant and booming, with never a discouraging word.
Another engine manufacturer that provided an excellent product was always faced with some rather serious decisions. Increase productivity to meet the demand for his engines by working harder, or continue as he always had. He could never make as many engines as he had orders for, and only met about 30% of the demand. The decisions were actually pretty simple. Work harder, or have a beer. Work, or beer. Work, beer. Took the beer and he's out of business.
There's another high quality performance engine manufacturer that could sweep the market in a heartbeat. But being an engineer would rather continually improve the old designs on paper while delaying the manufacture of what the public is asking for. Ideas are great, but actions bring greater results and fortune.
One more that could do very well has an advertising problem, probably due to a low cash flow, and could use a little more exposure when and if they can meet higher productivity demands. Wonderful engines and have the ability to go far, especially when the twins finally reach the production levels.
Then there's all the foreign copy cat engines, along with the very small conversion engine manufacturers that are trying to snag a piece of the small engine market and hold on to it.
If you were an engine manufacturer or distributor, which of the above would you prefer to be?
When I was in business, I learned very quickly (and with much financial discomfort) that I would never win an arguement with a customer. That was a business where each wrong decision could easily cost me tens of thousands of dollars, and sometimes did. Each time I thought I had won the arguement, it later became apparent that that not only had I lost the customer I had argued with, but several future customers as well due to the relationships my customers had with others in the same market survey. Profits and cash flow increased significantly when it was learned that giving away a little, even when I knew it was not the correct thing to do, brought more, much more, later. It was nothing more than a game of give and take. Just business as usual.
We're in an age of extremely fast, open, and world wide communications. Everyone is better connected that they've ever been before in the history of the world. What happens in Tin Buck Too is known In B.F.E. in minutes of the occurrance. People in one activity or another communicate continually on an instant basis with others that share the same activities and interests. Food for thought.
Two manufacturers advertise heavily and provide a few engines to the top competitors for promotional exposure purposes. One domestic, one foreign. Of those two, one will always give you a bunch of crap if you return an engine or product and will usually tell you that their engines are perfect, always, and that you did something wrong. The other usually accepts the engine or product with a smile and either repairs the original or provides a new one at no cost. His sales are always constant and booming, with never a discouraging word.
Another engine manufacturer that provided an excellent product was always faced with some rather serious decisions. Increase productivity to meet the demand for his engines by working harder, or continue as he always had. He could never make as many engines as he had orders for, and only met about 30% of the demand. The decisions were actually pretty simple. Work harder, or have a beer. Work, or beer. Work, beer. Took the beer and he's out of business.
There's another high quality performance engine manufacturer that could sweep the market in a heartbeat. But being an engineer would rather continually improve the old designs on paper while delaying the manufacture of what the public is asking for. Ideas are great, but actions bring greater results and fortune.
One more that could do very well has an advertising problem, probably due to a low cash flow, and could use a little more exposure when and if they can meet higher productivity demands. Wonderful engines and have the ability to go far, especially when the twins finally reach the production levels.
Then there's all the foreign copy cat engines, along with the very small conversion engine manufacturers that are trying to snag a piece of the small engine market and hold on to it.
If you were an engine manufacturer or distributor, which of the above would you prefer to be?
When I was in business, I learned very quickly (and with much financial discomfort) that I would never win an arguement with a customer. That was a business where each wrong decision could easily cost me tens of thousands of dollars, and sometimes did. Each time I thought I had won the arguement, it later became apparent that that not only had I lost the customer I had argued with, but several future customers as well due to the relationships my customers had with others in the same market survey. Profits and cash flow increased significantly when it was learned that giving away a little, even when I knew it was not the correct thing to do, brought more, much more, later. It was nothing more than a game of give and take. Just business as usual.
We're in an age of extremely fast, open, and world wide communications. Everyone is better connected that they've ever been before in the history of the world. What happens in Tin Buck Too is known In B.F.E. in minutes of the occurrance. People in one activity or another communicate continually on an instant basis with others that share the same activities and interests. Food for thought.
08-24-2006, 06:03 PM
#27
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
Absolutely correct here.
Were these fictional manufacturers? If not, could you PM me with the names? Just curious. [&:]
Were these fictional manufacturers? If not, could you PM me with the names? Just curious. [&:]
ORIGINAL: Silversurfer
Some observations if I may. Of all the major engine manufacturers I've seen to date, this is pretty much the way it's gone.
Two manufacturers advertise heavily and provide a few engines to the top competitors for promotional exposure purposes. One domestic, one foreign. Of those two, one will always give you a bunch of crap if you return an engine or product and will usually tell you that their engines are perfect, always, and that you did something wrong. The other usually accepts the engine or product with a smile and either repairs the original or provides a new one at no cost. His sales are always constant and booming, with never a discouraging word.
Another engine manufacturer that provided an excellent product was always faced with some rather serious decisions. Increase productivity to meet the demand for his engines by working harder, or continue as he always had. He could never make as many engines as he had orders for, and only met about 30% of the demand. The decisions were actually pretty simple. Work harder, or have a beer. Work, or beer. Work, beer. Took the beer and he's out of business.
There's another high quality performance engine manufacturer that could sweep the market in a heartbeat. But being an engineer would rather continually improve the old designs on paper while delaying the manufacture of what the public is asking for. Ideas are great, but actions bring greater results and fortune.
One more that could do very well has an advertising problem, probably due to a low cash flow, and could use a little more exposure when and if they can meet higher productivity demands. Wonderful engines and have the ability to go far, especially when the twins finally reach the production levels.
Then there's all the foreign copy cat engines, along with the very small conversion engine manufacturers that are trying to snag a piece of the small engine market and hold on to it.
If you were an engine manufacturer or distributor, which of the above would you prefer to be?
When I was in business, I learned very quickly (and with much financial discomfort) that I would never win an arguement with a customer. That was a business where each wrong decision could easily cost me tens of thousands of dollars, and sometimes did. Each time I thought I had won the arguement, it later became apparent that that not only had I lost the customer I had argued with, but several future customers as well due to the relationships my customers had with others in the same market survey. Profits and cash flow increased significantly when it was learned that giving away a little, even when I knew it was not the correct thing to do, brought more, much more, later. It was nothing more than a game of give and take. Just business as usual.
We're in an age of extremely fast, open, and world wide communications. Everyone is better connected that they've ever been before in the history of the world. What happens in Tin Buck Too is known In B.F.E. in minutes of the occurrance. People in one activity or another communicate continually on an instant basis with others that share the same activities and interests. Food for thought.
Some observations if I may. Of all the major engine manufacturers I've seen to date, this is pretty much the way it's gone.
Two manufacturers advertise heavily and provide a few engines to the top competitors for promotional exposure purposes. One domestic, one foreign. Of those two, one will always give you a bunch of crap if you return an engine or product and will usually tell you that their engines are perfect, always, and that you did something wrong. The other usually accepts the engine or product with a smile and either repairs the original or provides a new one at no cost. His sales are always constant and booming, with never a discouraging word.
Another engine manufacturer that provided an excellent product was always faced with some rather serious decisions. Increase productivity to meet the demand for his engines by working harder, or continue as he always had. He could never make as many engines as he had orders for, and only met about 30% of the demand. The decisions were actually pretty simple. Work harder, or have a beer. Work, or beer. Work, beer. Took the beer and he's out of business.
There's another high quality performance engine manufacturer that could sweep the market in a heartbeat. But being an engineer would rather continually improve the old designs on paper while delaying the manufacture of what the public is asking for. Ideas are great, but actions bring greater results and fortune.
One more that could do very well has an advertising problem, probably due to a low cash flow, and could use a little more exposure when and if they can meet higher productivity demands. Wonderful engines and have the ability to go far, especially when the twins finally reach the production levels.
Then there's all the foreign copy cat engines, along with the very small conversion engine manufacturers that are trying to snag a piece of the small engine market and hold on to it.
If you were an engine manufacturer or distributor, which of the above would you prefer to be?
When I was in business, I learned very quickly (and with much financial discomfort) that I would never win an arguement with a customer. That was a business where each wrong decision could easily cost me tens of thousands of dollars, and sometimes did. Each time I thought I had won the arguement, it later became apparent that that not only had I lost the customer I had argued with, but several future customers as well due to the relationships my customers had with others in the same market survey. Profits and cash flow increased significantly when it was learned that giving away a little, even when I knew it was not the correct thing to do, brought more, much more, later. It was nothing more than a game of give and take. Just business as usual.
We're in an age of extremely fast, open, and world wide communications. Everyone is better connected that they've ever been before in the history of the world. What happens in Tin Buck Too is known In B.F.E. in minutes of the occurrance. People in one activity or another communicate continually on an instant basis with others that share the same activities and interests. Food for thought.
08-24-2006, 07:20 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
ORIGINAL: Silversurfer
Two manufacturers advertise heavily and provide a few engines to the top competitors for promotional exposure purposes. One domestic, one foreign. Of those two, one will always give you a bunch of crap if you return an engine or product and will usually tell you that their engines are perfect, always, and that you did something wrong. The other usually accepts the engine or product with a smile and either repairs the original or provides a new one at no cost. His sales are always constant and booming, with never a discouraging word.
Two manufacturers advertise heavily and provide a few engines to the top competitors for promotional exposure purposes. One domestic, one foreign. Of those two, one will always give you a bunch of crap if you return an engine or product and will usually tell you that their engines are perfect, always, and that you did something wrong. The other usually accepts the engine or product with a smile and either repairs the original or provides a new one at no cost. His sales are always constant and booming, with never a discouraging word.
Another engine manufacturer that provided an excellent product was always faced with some rather serious decisions. Increase productivity to meet the demand for his engines by working harder, or continue as he always had. He could never make as many engines as he had orders for, and only met about 30% of the demand. The decisions were actually pretty simple. Work harder, or have a beer. Work, or beer. Work, beer. Took the beer and he's out of business.
There's another high quality performance engine manufacturer that could sweep the market in a heartbeat. But being an engineer would rather continually improve the old designs on paper while delaying the manufacture of what the public is asking for. Ideas are great, but actions bring greater results and fortune.
One more that could do very well has an advertising problem, probably due to a low cash flow, and could use a little more exposure when and if they can meet higher productivity demands. Wonderful engines and have the ability to go far, especially when the twins finally reach the production levels.
When I was in business, I learned very quickly (and with much financial discomfort) that I would never win an arguement with a customer. That was a business where each wrong decision could easily cost me tens of thousands of dollars, and sometimes did. Each time I thought I had won the arguement, it later became apparent that that not only had I lost the customer I had argued with, but several future customers as well due to the relationships my customers had with others in the same market survey. Profits and cash flow increased significantly when it was learned that giving away a little, even when I knew it was not the correct thing to do, brought more, much more, later. It was nothing more than a game of give and take. Just business as usual.
We're in an age of extremely fast, open, and world wide communications. Everyone is better connected that they've ever been before in the history of the world. What happens in Tin Buck Too is known In B.F.E. in minutes of the occurrance. People in one activity or another communicate continually on an instant basis with others that share the same activities and interests.
The lesson is simple, in this day and age if you choose to be in this type of business you simply can't afford to alientate even one customer because his voice will be heard, and that is PR no business owner wants or needs. When the primary advertising vehicle of virtually all of these companies is over the internet via web site or by word of mouth it would seem to be readily apparent to me that these are also the same venues that can kill a company's reputation far more easily that it was earned.
Again, food for thought....
08-24-2006, 07:43 PM
#30
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
Scott, you named them all, although not in the order they were referred to or in the correct paragraphs. I'd prefer to let everyone ponder each manufacturer and not pin point each one. It's better that way. I'm pleased that you caught the points in the order of importance, even though the most important was listed last
The second most important was second to last, but the two can trade places on the whisper of a breeze
I'm extremely pleased to see Mr. Dooley take care of this situation. I know that it will cost some now, but the customer rapport and support that has been gained will more than offset that cost in increased and repeat sales for a long time to come.
The second most important was second to last, but the two can trade places on the whisper of a breezeI'm extremely pleased to see Mr. Dooley take care of this situation. I know that it will cost some now, but the customer rapport and support that has been gained will more than offset that cost in increased and repeat sales for a long time to come.
08-25-2006, 08:46 AM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
Thats what I really like about the ZDZ engines is the 50-80cc class. They are the lightest and strongest motors out there in that class. The 80 will perform like a 100cc twin. Yet you can put it on a smaller lighter airframe becasue of its low weight. The 80's are perfect for 30-35% planes and fit the bill nicely to rather than the expensive twins. Just a thought...
08-25-2006, 02:39 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
ORIGINAL: Mike Dooley/RCS
The bottom line and the fact is that the engine has ingested the throttle plate screw and destroyed the engine. The carb was removed and the phenolic carb block was reinstalled with improper gaskets and improper sealant. This totally blocked the pulse holes. How can the engine work properly? This most certainly would cause improper fuel delivery and a poor running engine. How can we possibly warrant a carb screw destroying the engine when we do not see this as a cammon failure mode? It is obvious the engine was taken apart and put back together improperly. We stand behind our product line 100% and of course will only do want is fair regarding warranty claims and repairs.
The bottom line and the fact is that the engine has ingested the throttle plate screw and destroyed the engine. The carb was removed and the phenolic carb block was reinstalled with improper gaskets and improper sealant. This totally blocked the pulse holes. How can the engine work properly? This most certainly would cause improper fuel delivery and a poor running engine. How can we possibly warrant a carb screw destroying the engine when we do not see this as a cammon failure mode? It is obvious the engine was taken apart and put back together improperly. We stand behind our product line 100% and of course will only do want is fair regarding warranty claims and repairs.
I would like to add to this and send my feelings to ZDZ/RCS.
As a potential customer, I will never buy any ZDZ products after reading this forum. And furthermore, I will try and persuade others not to do so as well by sharing story. Mike, your position on this matter was totally both unprofessional and unrepresentative of good product support. As I am a long time (20yrs) small engine mechanic (motorcycle) and now associate mechanical engineer designing small engines, I have never heard of a company not warrantying engine failure due to carb butterfly screw comming loose and being ingested by the engine. These screws should be locktited and staked when the carb is built. Wether or not the customer removed and reinstalled the carburetor is a moot point. Even the RTV issue shoudn't have any bearing on the failure in question.
To say you cannot possibly warrant this issue because it is not a common failure mode is rediculous. EVERY FAILURE MODE ALWAYS HAS TO BEGIN WITH ONE CUSTOMER!
The only way this customer should be heald responsible is if you can prove he had previously removed the the carb butterfly and reinstalled the screw improperly. If not then you can not substanciate your claim due to the fact that the carb was previously removed, especially when the customer has explained that his intallation requires such removal.
I am so tired of companies in all industries taking similar stances as you have simply to save a buck. Bottom line is once you have our money in your pocket you are finished with us. That is so sad.
And how can you say you stand behind your engines 100%? Wouldn't that mean you would warranty any issue that may arrise? Not just the ones that are convienient for you?
And the fact that you finally found a common ground with this customer doesn't actually fix the issue at hand, which is that you were bullied by the posters on this forum to make ammends to avoid looking like the 'bad guy' as you stated on a problem that should have never even been a questionable warranty issue in the first place. What is more important here in my opinion is the original stance you took on this gentlemans problem which shows your true decision making without outside interference. A customer shouldn't have to go onto a forum and put a company on blast to get an action from them.
I'll choose to continue to support Desert Aircraft for my model engine needs now and in the future, for both their outstanding performance and excellent product support.
Fire away gentleman.
Brian Kinney
08-25-2006, 05:05 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
Hi There
I have read this thread with some surprice. I did have a small problem with my ZDZ, it began to be difficult to start as gallons where run, I did talk to the dealer and got a not to nice answer back. When there had been some writting in between dealer and me, i decided to contact ZDZ directly. Problem where explained and 2 mail between them and me, they agreed to ship a brand new engine to me, WHEN new engine where up running satisfactory I should ship back the old engine. I did some testing with the new ignition on the old engine and problem did disappear, this I told ZDZ, immedately the ship a new ignition instead of the defect one, furthermore and where offered to buy the new engine for a very good price.
That's what I call service.
Joen
I have read this thread with some surprice. I did have a small problem with my ZDZ, it began to be difficult to start as gallons where run, I did talk to the dealer and got a not to nice answer back. When there had been some writting in between dealer and me, i decided to contact ZDZ directly. Problem where explained and 2 mail between them and me, they agreed to ship a brand new engine to me, WHEN new engine where up running satisfactory I should ship back the old engine. I did some testing with the new ignition on the old engine and problem did disappear, this I told ZDZ, immedately the ship a new ignition instead of the defect one, furthermore and where offered to buy the new engine for a very good price.
That's what I call service.
Joen
08-25-2006, 05:22 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
ORIGINAL: mxwrench
The only way this customer should be heald responsible is if you can prove he had previously removed the the carb butterfly and reinstalled the screw improperly. If not then you can not substanciate your claim due to the fact that the carb was previously removed, especially when the customer has explained that his intallation requires such removal.
I am so tired of companies in all industries taking similar stances as you have simply to save a buck. Bottom line is once you have our money in your pocket you are finished with us. That is so sad.
And how can you say you stand behind your engines 100%? Wouldn't that mean you would warranty any issue that may arrise? Not just the ones that are convienient for you?
I'll choose to continue to support Desert Aircraft for my model engine needs now and in the future, for both their outstanding performance and excellent product support.
Fire away gentleman.
Brian Kinney
ORIGINAL: Mike Dooley/RCS
The bottom line and the fact is that the engine has ingested the throttle plate screw and destroyed the engine. The carb was removed and the phenolic carb block was reinstalled with improper gaskets and improper sealant. This totally blocked the pulse holes. How can the engine work properly? This most certainly would cause improper fuel delivery and a poor running engine. How can we possibly warrant a carb screw destroying the engine when we do not see this as a cammon failure mode? It is obvious the engine was taken apart and put back together improperly. We stand behind our product line 100% and of course will only do want is fair regarding warranty claims and repairs.
The bottom line and the fact is that the engine has ingested the throttle plate screw and destroyed the engine. The carb was removed and the phenolic carb block was reinstalled with improper gaskets and improper sealant. This totally blocked the pulse holes. How can the engine work properly? This most certainly would cause improper fuel delivery and a poor running engine. How can we possibly warrant a carb screw destroying the engine when we do not see this as a cammon failure mode? It is obvious the engine was taken apart and put back together improperly. We stand behind our product line 100% and of course will only do want is fair regarding warranty claims and repairs.
The only way this customer should be heald responsible is if you can prove he had previously removed the the carb butterfly and reinstalled the screw improperly. If not then you can not substanciate your claim due to the fact that the carb was previously removed, especially when the customer has explained that his intallation requires such removal.
I am so tired of companies in all industries taking similar stances as you have simply to save a buck. Bottom line is once you have our money in your pocket you are finished with us. That is so sad.
And how can you say you stand behind your engines 100%? Wouldn't that mean you would warranty any issue that may arrise? Not just the ones that are convienient for you?
I'll choose to continue to support Desert Aircraft for my model engine needs now and in the future, for both their outstanding performance and excellent product support.
Fire away gentleman.
Brian Kinney
08-25-2006, 05:36 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
I can understand both sides of the problem. At least Mike Dooley recognized the problem that was at hand and made a settlement even though he thought he was right. I have to commend him on that action. I can only say that I have not been treated as well. Not from an small engine or airplane manufacturer but from other purchases made of which I'm not going to get into. It sure gives the purchaser an empty feeling of helplessness when all his hard earned cash goes up in smoke..... Bill
08-25-2006, 05:54 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
ORIGINAL: Diablo-RCU
None of the distributors want you to take apart an engine while they cover the warranty. Most owners are not good small engine mechanics...a few are. Brian, call up DA and tell them you disassembled a new DA-100 for whatever reason, and now it doesn't run right and you want them to warranty it. Tell us what they say. If you are going to disassemble an engine, you have to be good enough that the distributor can't tell the engine was taken apart - if you expect warranty coverage.
ORIGINAL: mxwrench
The only way this customer should be heald responsible is if you can prove he had previously removed the the carb butterfly and reinstalled the screw improperly. If not then you can not substanciate your claim due to the fact that the carb was previously removed, especially when the customer has explained that his intallation requires such removal.
I am so tired of companies in all industries taking similar stances as you have simply to save a buck. Bottom line is once you have our money in your pocket you are finished with us. That is so sad.
And how can you say you stand behind your engines 100%? Wouldn't that mean you would warranty any issue that may arrise? Not just the ones that are convienient for you?
I'll choose to continue to support Desert Aircraft for my model engine needs now and in the future, for both their outstanding performance and excellent product support.
Fire away gentleman.
Brian Kinney
ORIGINAL: Mike Dooley/RCS
The bottom line and the fact is that the engine has ingested the throttle plate screw and destroyed the engine. The carb was removed and the phenolic carb block was reinstalled with improper gaskets and improper sealant. This totally blocked the pulse holes. How can the engine work properly? This most certainly would cause improper fuel delivery and a poor running engine. How can we possibly warrant a carb screw destroying the engine when we do not see this as a cammon failure mode? It is obvious the engine was taken apart and put back together improperly. We stand behind our product line 100% and of course will only do want is fair regarding warranty claims and repairs.
The bottom line and the fact is that the engine has ingested the throttle plate screw and destroyed the engine. The carb was removed and the phenolic carb block was reinstalled with improper gaskets and improper sealant. This totally blocked the pulse holes. How can the engine work properly? This most certainly would cause improper fuel delivery and a poor running engine. How can we possibly warrant a carb screw destroying the engine when we do not see this as a cammon failure mode? It is obvious the engine was taken apart and put back together improperly. We stand behind our product line 100% and of course will only do want is fair regarding warranty claims and repairs.
The only way this customer should be heald responsible is if you can prove he had previously removed the the carb butterfly and reinstalled the screw improperly. If not then you can not substanciate your claim due to the fact that the carb was previously removed, especially when the customer has explained that his intallation requires such removal.
I am so tired of companies in all industries taking similar stances as you have simply to save a buck. Bottom line is once you have our money in your pocket you are finished with us. That is so sad.
And how can you say you stand behind your engines 100%? Wouldn't that mean you would warranty any issue that may arrise? Not just the ones that are convienient for you?
I'll choose to continue to support Desert Aircraft for my model engine needs now and in the future, for both their outstanding performance and excellent product support.
Fire away gentleman.
Brian Kinney
Here's the deal... If he had called them for warranty repairs due to the engine not running right, and it was caused by his use of RTV sealant blocking jet orifices then I completely understand the reasoning for warranty denial. However, for a carb butterfly screw to EVER come loose that is definitely something that should be covered, unless, like I said in my previous post that there were evidense that the customer had removed it for whatever reason.
In my previous experience, I have only had to remove the carb butterfly on maybe 2-3 carbs in my entire lifetime as a mechanic for 20 years, so I doubt that the guy would have done that, and he says he didn't in his posts.
Also, the carb in question probably wasn't manufacturered by ZDZ anyways. Almost every engine manufacturer uses outsourced carburetors due to their complexity to produce. So ultimately the warranty would have been placed on them.
If the model a customer has requires the carb to be removed for engine installation, and the customer will void his warranty by doing so, then what is a customer to do??
It all sounds to me like ZDZ was just trying to dodge their responsibility. And for that reason alone I will not support their products.
I do agree with you though, if you are going to take your engine apart, you should A. know something about what you are doing, B. Leave RTV sealant in the tool box and save it for it's only real usefull purpose which is for sealing V-8 engine intake manifolds and oil pans, C. Leave no trace of your presence, and D. Always use new gaskets when taking something apart and reassembling it.
BK
08-25-2006, 06:08 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
FWIW..I have been looking at carb plate screws for 19 years as part of engine conversions..Walbro carb plate screws are staked on the ends after assembly, Tillotson carbs use lock washers...
I take the carb shaft out of almost every conversion to either rotate the shaft 180 degrees for better throttle hookup or to replace the worn out plate that got that way from someone leaving the spring off the end...Green Loctite 680 on the screw holds so well that the screw will sometimes twist off before the Loctite lets go..Walbro screws are 4-40 and 6-32 plated brass..
I think Tillotson screws are steel...
It would be extremely unlikely that the screw would ever come loose unless removed and not properly replaced....
Early Walbro screws were staked with a straight tool so the end of the screw is split, later screws are somehow staked with a tool that expands the end most of the way around...
Sounds like the screw was removed somewhere along the line by someone, not necessarily the end user....
I take the carb shaft out of almost every conversion to either rotate the shaft 180 degrees for better throttle hookup or to replace the worn out plate that got that way from someone leaving the spring off the end...Green Loctite 680 on the screw holds so well that the screw will sometimes twist off before the Loctite lets go..Walbro screws are 4-40 and 6-32 plated brass..
I think Tillotson screws are steel...
It would be extremely unlikely that the screw would ever come loose unless removed and not properly replaced....
Early Walbro screws were staked with a straight tool so the end of the screw is split, later screws are somehow staked with a tool that expands the end most of the way around...
Sounds like the screw was removed somewhere along the line by someone, not necessarily the end user....
08-25-2006, 08:15 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
Just my two cents,Was in the market for a new ZDZ80 but after talking to TBM & RC Showcase I was told the warranty is for 12 MO.on engine and 36mo. on Ign,Go on ZDZ and Ammulong sites and they say that the Warranty is 42 MO.on engine Material and workman ship.If the factory warrants it for that long than why not the Distributor,Just curious,
Bob
Bob
08-25-2006, 08:17 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
Just my two cents,Was in the market for a new ZDZ80 but after talking to TBM & RC Showcase I was told the warranty is for 12 MO.on engine and 36mo. on Ign,Go on ZDZ and Ammulong sites and they say that the Warranty is 42 MO.on engine Material and workman ship.If the factory warrants it for that long than why not the Distributor,Just curious,
Bob
Bob
08-25-2006, 08:22 PM
#42
RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
This entire thread is a bit puzzling to me.
My own experience with Walbro/Tillotson/Bing carbs is the same as RCIGN1.
how many of you,who have strong opinions have extensive experience on any or all of these carbs?
hello?
apparantly the line has gone dead ----------
My own experience with Walbro/Tillotson/Bing carbs is the same as RCIGN1.
how many of you,who have strong opinions have extensive experience on any or all of these carbs?
hello?
apparantly the line has gone dead ----------
08-26-2006, 05:22 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
OK, I might as well jump in. I haven't had that much experience with repair of small engines, but the point here is that Mike obviously thinks that the engine had been worked on by someone other than an authorized repair facility(RCS), thus voiding the warranty. RTV sealant on the carb would lead me to believe that someone had worked on it. Whether they did whatever repairs properly makes no difference. Any unauthorized repairs on virtually anything under warranty will void that warranty. I agree with the statement about DA, and if you think that would be a problem, try it on your new automobile.
Mike Dooley's willingness to settle the problem, albeit, after many less than favorable posts, is a good gesture and should be recognized as such.
I personally think that ZDZ engines are good engines and any problems encountered while under warranty will be taken care of to the customer's satisfaction provided the customer has met with the requirements of the warranty. Both the seller and the buyer have obligations under the provisions of most warranties.
Just my thoughts.
By the way, the throttle butterfliy screw will come out and the butterfly can be ingested into the engine, but only after the screw has been removed and not locked back into place properly. Voice of experience.
Regards,
doubledee
Mike Dooley's willingness to settle the problem, albeit, after many less than favorable posts, is a good gesture and should be recognized as such.
I personally think that ZDZ engines are good engines and any problems encountered while under warranty will be taken care of to the customer's satisfaction provided the customer has met with the requirements of the warranty. Both the seller and the buyer have obligations under the provisions of most warranties.
Just my thoughts.
By the way, the throttle butterfliy screw will come out and the butterfly can be ingested into the engine, but only after the screw has been removed and not locked back into place properly. Voice of experience.
Regards,
doubledee
08-26-2006, 06:02 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
I posted the pictures of an 80 that ingested the choke screw, the bar it screws on snapped in flight after a few seasons (Tillotson).
I have dealt with RCS on a few occasions and returned a ZDZ60 to them after 2yrs of service and they replaced cylinder and piston under warranty, no questions asked.
I also sent 2 other ZDZs to them with good service and no issues with warranty work.
One thread is not a sound reason to not buy a ZDZ
I have dealt with RCS on a few occasions and returned a ZDZ60 to them after 2yrs of service and they replaced cylinder and piston under warranty, no questions asked.
I also sent 2 other ZDZs to them with good service and no issues with warranty work.
One thread is not a sound reason to not buy a ZDZ
08-26-2006, 08:19 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
ORIGINAL: doubledee
RTV sealant on the carb would lead me to believe that someone had worked on it. Whether they did whatever repairs properly makes no difference. Regards,
doubledee
RTV sealant on the carb would lead me to believe that someone had worked on it. Whether they did whatever repairs properly makes no difference. Regards,
doubledee
I did no repairs. I only removed carb to install the engine through the firewall. I put the sealant on for,,well to seal it good...No Mods. or repairs...
08-26-2006, 08:31 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
I agree also that one thread shouldnt justify not buying a ZDZ engine. My point was that this just wasnt my fault that a darn screw popped out the carb and got sucked up...
I just got through flying my plane with a ZDZ RV on it after repairs and the motor ran like a clock. I love that thing...Like I said before on earlier post that warranty issues can be a headache and in this case it was.
I had a car once that the transmission went out on. a ball bearing fell out of the shift control module or something. The mechanics said they never have heard of that happening before either. It may have been the only car in existence that that happened to but it did. I didnt get in there and play with the ball bearings on the thing. But they warrantied it..I got a new transmission.
Mike D. at RC showcase has made the engine good and replaced it. The damaged engine was a complete write off. I hope and pray that ZDZ themselves will re-imburse RC showcase for this. That would be the right hting to do on their part.
Scott S.
I just got through flying my plane with a ZDZ RV on it after repairs and the motor ran like a clock. I love that thing...Like I said before on earlier post that warranty issues can be a headache and in this case it was.
I had a car once that the transmission went out on. a ball bearing fell out of the shift control module or something. The mechanics said they never have heard of that happening before either. It may have been the only car in existence that that happened to but it did. I didnt get in there and play with the ball bearings on the thing. But they warrantied it..I got a new transmission.
Mike D. at RC showcase has made the engine good and replaced it. The damaged engine was a complete write off. I hope and pray that ZDZ themselves will re-imburse RC showcase for this. That would be the right hting to do on their part.
Scott S.
08-27-2006, 01:00 AM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
ORIGINAL: texomalaser
I agree also that one thread shouldnt justify not buying a ZDZ engine. My point was that this just wasnt my fault that a darn screw popped out the carb and got sucked up...
I just got through flying my plane with a ZDZ RV on it after repairs and the motor ran like a clock. I love that thing...Like I said before on earlier post that warranty issues can be a headache and in this case it was.
I had a car once that the transmission went out on. a ball bearing fell out of the shift control module or something. The mechanics said they never have heard of that happening before either. It may have been the only car in existence that that happened to but it did. I didnt get in there and play with the ball bearings on the thing. But they warrantied it..I got a new transmission.
Mike D. at RC showcase has made the engine good and replaced it. The damaged engine was a complete write off. I hope and pray that ZDZ themselves will re-imburse RC showcase for this. That would be the right hting to do on their part.
Scott S.
I agree also that one thread shouldnt justify not buying a ZDZ engine. My point was that this just wasnt my fault that a darn screw popped out the carb and got sucked up...
I just got through flying my plane with a ZDZ RV on it after repairs and the motor ran like a clock. I love that thing...Like I said before on earlier post that warranty issues can be a headache and in this case it was.
I had a car once that the transmission went out on. a ball bearing fell out of the shift control module or something. The mechanics said they never have heard of that happening before either. It may have been the only car in existence that that happened to but it did. I didnt get in there and play with the ball bearings on the thing. But they warrantied it..I got a new transmission.
Mike D. at RC showcase has made the engine good and replaced it. The damaged engine was a complete write off. I hope and pray that ZDZ themselves will re-imburse RC showcase for this. That would be the right hting to do on their part.
Scott S.
As a motorcycle mechanic for 20 years and a service manager for a large dealership for 3 of those 20, I have seen many many questionable warrany repairs. But good will warranty repairs go a long way for customer satisfaction.
I also agree that this is a questionable repair, but, after hearing both sides, I feel that RCS should make good on this repair with no compromise. If the guy needs to remove the carb to install the engine in his airframe, but doing so will void his warranty then what is supposed to do?
I will still not support ZDZ engines due to their importers attitude and stance on warranty repairs.
The fact that the carb butterfly screw came out is not due to the carb being simply removed for engine installation as claimed by the customer, and that I feel is the bottom line.
BK
08-27-2006, 09:38 AM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
Can we beat this dead horse anymore?
Solution has been reached.. everyone is happy.. move on
This reminds me of a recent club meeting (my friend's club) I heard about where they discussed if club members should really fly alone incase there was an accident...for over an hr and then in the end didn't really change anything..decided that it wasn't recommended and you should be careful but it was up to you.
<-- runs to get his flame suit
Solution has been reached.. everyone is happy.. move on
This reminds me of a recent club meeting (my friend's club) I heard about where they discussed if club members should really fly alone incase there was an accident...for over an hr and then in the end didn't really change anything..decided that it wasn't recommended and you should be careful but it was up to you.
<-- runs to get his flame suit