ZDZ problem resolved
08-27-2006, 09:57 AM
#51
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
Actually I wish I could just remove the post. If anyone knows how let me know..I just dont see anythng positive coming out of this anymore. The problem was resolved and I thank people for their support. But I also realize Mike D. and his gang has worked hard to put ZDZ out on the streets and I want them to prosper and not disapear. I kinda feel bad about the post but at the same time I am glad the warranty is effective now...
08-30-2006, 01:29 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
I'm amazed how many "of you guys" just let yourself get "pushed over" and roll with the "positive outcome" of this discussion. Facts are:
1. Multiple manufacturers of airplane ARFs put in their instructions to REMOVE the carburetor during engine installation if the engine is rear induction. Are they now liable for your rear induction engine?
2. RCShowcase wasn't going to do a dang thing, until this thread appeared.
3. Just because a screw hasn't come out previously (or nobody has heard about one), doesn't mean it won't happen.
4. The owner of the engine in question may not be an engine guru, but it appears he has received help and guidance from a better informed local person, who also backs up his arguments.
5. One thread like this may not necessarily prove bad service or warranty coverage, but it shows inconsistencies in same, which is not any better.
And now texomalaser regrets to have started this thread, dude, grow some b@!!s, without this thread you would have gotten nothing.
Yeah, go ahead and flame me, I'm used to it.
DKjens
1. Multiple manufacturers of airplane ARFs put in their instructions to REMOVE the carburetor during engine installation if the engine is rear induction. Are they now liable for your rear induction engine?
2. RCShowcase wasn't going to do a dang thing, until this thread appeared.
3. Just because a screw hasn't come out previously (or nobody has heard about one), doesn't mean it won't happen.
4. The owner of the engine in question may not be an engine guru, but it appears he has received help and guidance from a better informed local person, who also backs up his arguments.
5. One thread like this may not necessarily prove bad service or warranty coverage, but it shows inconsistencies in same, which is not any better.
And now texomalaser regrets to have started this thread, dude, grow some b@!!s, without this thread you would have gotten nothing.
Yeah, go ahead and flame me, I'm used to it.
DKjens
08-30-2006, 01:52 PM
#55
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
You do have some good points...
ORIGINAL: DKjens
I'm amazed how many "of you guys" just let yourself get "pushed over" and roll with the "positive outcome" of this discussion. Facts are:
1. Multiple manufacturers of airplane ARFs put in their instructions to REMOVE the carburetor during engine installation if the engine is rear induction. Are they now liable for your rear induction engine?
2. RCShowcase wasn't going to do a dang thing, until this thread appeared.
3. Just because a screw hasn't come out previously (or nobody has heard about one), doesn't mean it won't happen.
4. The owner of the engine in question may not be an engine guru, but it appears he has received help and guidance from a better informed local person, who also backs up his arguments.
5. One thread like this may not necessarily prove bad service or warranty coverage, but it shows inconsistencies in same, which is not any better.
And now texomalaser regrets to have started this thread, dude, grow some b@!!s, without this thread you would have gotten nothing.
Yeah, go ahead and flame me, I'm used to it.
DKjens
I'm amazed how many "of you guys" just let yourself get "pushed over" and roll with the "positive outcome" of this discussion. Facts are:
1. Multiple manufacturers of airplane ARFs put in their instructions to REMOVE the carburetor during engine installation if the engine is rear induction. Are they now liable for your rear induction engine?
2. RCShowcase wasn't going to do a dang thing, until this thread appeared.
3. Just because a screw hasn't come out previously (or nobody has heard about one), doesn't mean it won't happen.
4. The owner of the engine in question may not be an engine guru, but it appears he has received help and guidance from a better informed local person, who also backs up his arguments.
5. One thread like this may not necessarily prove bad service or warranty coverage, but it shows inconsistencies in same, which is not any better.
And now texomalaser regrets to have started this thread, dude, grow some b@!!s, without this thread you would have gotten nothing.
Yeah, go ahead and flame me, I'm used to it.
DKjens
08-30-2006, 02:01 PM
#56
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
well I had a problem with a zdz 40bs, I tried to make it run and my buddies in Bellingham they though the engine was a lemon so i got pist off and tried to work on it and i failed, so time went by and i called rcs and they told me that the engine was out of production but they can work out a very good deal if i wanted a new one, so here it goes 600 buks to the drain!! the time went by then i moved to texas, I pulled the engine out of the box, installed it, tried to run it and the same problem, now even worst!! the little engine was pissed of at me ran rough, will not rev up, did not idle, then i called Mike and he said try a different prop,so idid 18x10prozinger (my mistake of brand[:@]) and the engine you guessed it did the same thing
. so yesterday i grabed the engine pulled the carb and left it soaking overnigt in throtle body solvent and re spray all the gas and airways, I assembled it and took it to the field and guess what happend?[8D]
. so yesterday i grabed the engine pulled the carb and left it soaking overnigt in throtle body solvent and re spray all the gas and airways, I assembled it and took it to the field and guess what happend?[8D]
08-30-2006, 02:53 PM
#57
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
It didn't work?
ORIGINAL: mr.scale
well I had a problem with a zdz 40bs, I tried to make it run and my buddies in Bellingham they though the engine was a lemon so i got pist off and tried to work on it and i failed, so time went by and i called rcs and they told me that the engine was out of production but they can work out a very good deal if i wanted a new one, so here it goes 600 buks to the drain!! the time went by then i moved to texas, I pulled the engine out of the box, installed it, tried to run it and the same problem, now even worst!! the little engine was pissed of at me ran rough, will not rev up, did not idle, then i called Mike and he said try a different prop,so idid 18x10prozinger (my mistake of brand[:@]) and the engine you guessed it did the same thing. so yesterday i grabed the engine pulled the carb and left it soaking overnigt in throtle body solvent and re spray all the gas and airways, I assembled it and took it to the field and guess what happend?[8D]
well I had a problem with a zdz 40bs, I tried to make it run and my buddies in Bellingham they though the engine was a lemon so i got pist off and tried to work on it and i failed, so time went by and i called rcs and they told me that the engine was out of production but they can work out a very good deal if i wanted a new one, so here it goes 600 buks to the drain!! the time went by then i moved to texas, I pulled the engine out of the box, installed it, tried to run it and the same problem, now even worst!! the little engine was pissed of at me ran rough, will not rev up, did not idle, then i called Mike and he said try a different prop,so idid 18x10prozinger (my mistake of brand[:@]) and the engine you guessed it did the same thing
. so yesterday i grabed the engine pulled the carb and left it soaking overnigt in throtle body solvent and re spray all the gas and airways, I assembled it and took it to the field and guess what happend?[8D]
08-30-2006, 03:42 PM
#58
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
Dude!!!!!!! Take it easy. Dont get yourself worked up in a lather here. Im just glad Im not out a whole bunch of money on an engine less than a month old. But my point is that the forum has served its purpose and there is no reason to run this in the ground. A lot of people make mistakes or bad decisions. Im one of them. But I always gain a positive experience from it.
ORIGINAL: RVM
You do have some good points...
You do have some good points...
ORIGINAL: DKjens
I'm amazed how many "of you guys" just let yourself get "pushed over" and roll with the "positive outcome" of this discussion. Facts are:
1. Multiple manufacturers of airplane ARFs put in their instructions to REMOVE the carburetor during engine installation if the engine is rear induction. Are they now liable for your rear induction engine?
2. RCShowcase wasn't going to do a dang thing, until this thread appeared.
3. Just because a screw hasn't come out previously (or nobody has heard about one), doesn't mean it won't happen.
4. The owner of the engine in question may not be an engine guru, but it appears he has received help and guidance from a better informed local person, who also backs up his arguments.
5. One thread like this may not necessarily prove bad service or warranty coverage, but it shows inconsistencies in same, which is not any better.
And now texomalaser regrets to have started this thread, dude, grow some b@!!s, without this thread you would have gotten nothing.
Yeah, go ahead and flame me, I'm used to it.
DKjens
I'm amazed how many "of you guys" just let yourself get "pushed over" and roll with the "positive outcome" of this discussion. Facts are:
1. Multiple manufacturers of airplane ARFs put in their instructions to REMOVE the carburetor during engine installation if the engine is rear induction. Are they now liable for your rear induction engine?
2. RCShowcase wasn't going to do a dang thing, until this thread appeared.
3. Just because a screw hasn't come out previously (or nobody has heard about one), doesn't mean it won't happen.
4. The owner of the engine in question may not be an engine guru, but it appears he has received help and guidance from a better informed local person, who also backs up his arguments.
5. One thread like this may not necessarily prove bad service or warranty coverage, but it shows inconsistencies in same, which is not any better.
And now texomalaser regrets to have started this thread, dude, grow some b@!!s, without this thread you would have gotten nothing.
Yeah, go ahead and flame me, I'm used to it.
DKjens
08-30-2006, 05:21 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
ooooh yeah i forgot to mention that when i sprayed the solvent in to the carb a lot of crap came out!! and when I went to the field today I just primed it and started on the first flip!!! and ran strong and transcitioned smoooooooth and idled for ever!!! so i waited until cooled off and 2 flips with choke on and 1 flip to start
and fired like its suposed to so now that i have a bunch of props laying around it's time to have fun and fly with a dependable engine.
ZDZ nothing but the best engines!!!!!!!!!!!![sm=wink_smile.gif]
Fernando
and fired like its suposed to so now that i have a bunch of props laying around it's time to have fun and fly with a dependable engine. ZDZ nothing but the best engines!!!!!!!!!!!![sm=wink_smile.gif]
Fernando
08-30-2006, 08:39 PM
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
I love my new rebuilt ZDZ 80 RV. Just got through with the 4th gallon and its really starting to talk....Put 6 flights in today. The weather here in Sherman, TX has been wonderful for the last 2 days..We are gearing up for our 10th annual IMAC this weekend. Mike and the crew at RC showcase did a great rebuild on this motor. 
09-01-2009, 10:14 PM
#62
RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
ORIGINAL: mxwrench
I would like to add to this and send my feelings to ZDZ/RCS.
As a potential customer, I will never buy any ZDZ products after reading this forum. And furthermore, I will try and persuade others not to do so as well by sharing story. Mike, your position on this matter was totally both unprofessional and unrepresentative of good product support. As I am a long time (20yrs) small engine mechanic (motorcycle) and now associate mechanical engineer designing small engines, I have never heard of a company not warrantying engine failure due to carb butterfly screw comming loose and being ingested by the engine. These screws should be locktited and staked when the carb is built. Wether or not the customer removed and reinstalled the carburetor is a moot point. Even the RTV issue shoudn't have any bearing on the failure in question.
To say you cannot possibly warrant this issue because it is not a common failure mode is rediculous. EVERY FAILURE MODE ALWAYS HAS TO BEGIN WITH ONE CUSTOMER!
The only way this customer should be heald responsible is if you can prove he had previously removed the the carb butterfly and reinstalled the screw improperly. If not then you can not substanciate your claim due to the fact that the carb was previously removed, especially when the customer has explained that his intallation requires such removal.
I am so tired of companies in all industries taking similar stances as you have simply to save a buck. Bottom line is once you have our money in your pocket you are finished with us. That is so sad.
And how can you say you stand behind your engines 100%? Wouldn't that mean you would warranty any issue that may arrise? Not just the ones that are convienient for you?
And the fact that you finally found a common ground with this customer doesn't actually fix the issue at hand, which is that you were bullied by the posters on this forum to make ammends to avoid looking like the 'bad guy' as you stated on a problem that should have never even been a questionable warranty issue in the first place. What is more important here in my opinion is the original stance you took on this gentlemans problem which shows your true decision making without outside interference. A customer shouldn't have to go onto a forum and put a company on blast to get an action from them.
I'll choose to continue to support Desert Aircraft for my model engine needs now and in the future, for both their outstanding performance and excellent product support.
Fire away gentleman.
Brian Kinney
ORIGINAL: Mike Dooley/RCS
The bottom line and the fact is that the engine has ingested the throttle plate screw and destroyed the engine. The carb was removed and the phenolic carb block was reinstalled with improper gaskets and improper sealant. This totally blocked the pulse holes. How can the engine work properly? This most certainly would cause improper fuel delivery and a poor running engine. How can we possibly warrant a carb screw destroying the engine when we do not see this as a cammon failure mode? It is obvious the engine was taken apart and put back together improperly. We stand behind our product line 100% and of course will only do want is fair regarding warranty claims and repairs.
The bottom line and the fact is that the engine has ingested the throttle plate screw and destroyed the engine. The carb was removed and the phenolic carb block was reinstalled with improper gaskets and improper sealant. This totally blocked the pulse holes. How can the engine work properly? This most certainly would cause improper fuel delivery and a poor running engine. How can we possibly warrant a carb screw destroying the engine when we do not see this as a cammon failure mode? It is obvious the engine was taken apart and put back together improperly. We stand behind our product line 100% and of course will only do want is fair regarding warranty claims and repairs.
I would like to add to this and send my feelings to ZDZ/RCS.
As a potential customer, I will never buy any ZDZ products after reading this forum. And furthermore, I will try and persuade others not to do so as well by sharing story. Mike, your position on this matter was totally both unprofessional and unrepresentative of good product support. As I am a long time (20yrs) small engine mechanic (motorcycle) and now associate mechanical engineer designing small engines, I have never heard of a company not warrantying engine failure due to carb butterfly screw comming loose and being ingested by the engine. These screws should be locktited and staked when the carb is built. Wether or not the customer removed and reinstalled the carburetor is a moot point. Even the RTV issue shoudn't have any bearing on the failure in question.
To say you cannot possibly warrant this issue because it is not a common failure mode is rediculous. EVERY FAILURE MODE ALWAYS HAS TO BEGIN WITH ONE CUSTOMER!
The only way this customer should be heald responsible is if you can prove he had previously removed the the carb butterfly and reinstalled the screw improperly. If not then you can not substanciate your claim due to the fact that the carb was previously removed, especially when the customer has explained that his intallation requires such removal.
I am so tired of companies in all industries taking similar stances as you have simply to save a buck. Bottom line is once you have our money in your pocket you are finished with us. That is so sad.
And how can you say you stand behind your engines 100%? Wouldn't that mean you would warranty any issue that may arrise? Not just the ones that are convienient for you?
And the fact that you finally found a common ground with this customer doesn't actually fix the issue at hand, which is that you were bullied by the posters on this forum to make ammends to avoid looking like the 'bad guy' as you stated on a problem that should have never even been a questionable warranty issue in the first place. What is more important here in my opinion is the original stance you took on this gentlemans problem which shows your true decision making without outside interference. A customer shouldn't have to go onto a forum and put a company on blast to get an action from them.
I'll choose to continue to support Desert Aircraft for my model engine needs now and in the future, for both their outstanding performance and excellent product support.
Fire away gentleman.
Brian Kinney
I know this is an old post .. and I know RCS is out of biz.. (wonder why?)
But .. My zdz80 sucked in the same choke throttle screw and broke the choke bar. The whole lower case was destroyed. I sent the engine back to rcs and they said they have never seen this before .. BS ... Wouldn't cover under any warranty cause the engine was used as I bought it off of RCU .(new in box)
They offered me a new engine at regular price .. wow ...
I have since aquired a new lower end and changed that old carb for a Walbro.. Still haven't fired it up yet this season.
Just thought I'de share even though this thread is dead.
09-03-2009, 05:13 AM
#63
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RE: ZDZ GONE BAD!!!!!
I also have been soured on ZDZ engines. I bought a ZDZ boxer 80 twin and a 160 twin back in 2002. The 80 was run briefly and seemed ok, and it was not used again for several years. The 160 was on the shelf untill 2008. Then it was broke in and running well on a new 40% Cap. The 80 was also put back in service also and was running ok. I got about 35-40 hours on the 80 and the engine suddenly ran erratic. I have flown RC and ultralight aircraft for 40 years so I really understand engine repair and operation. Knowing the engine was out of warrantee before the first 3 hrs. of running, I opened the engine up to find the cylinder plating peeled inside the cylinder. The plating was NOT worn off, it flaked off in a strange pattern as if the plating process was defective. A few months later, the 160 twin got about 30 hrs. on it and it became erratic as well. I opened it up only to find the same peeled plating, Not worn, PEELED.
I can't help but notice that the new ZDZ engines advertize new cylinder designs and Nickasil plating with a quality Italian company. I lost $3000 with these 2 engines. Do you think I want to try one of their new ones?
I can't help but notice that the new ZDZ engines advertize new cylinder designs and Nickasil plating with a quality Italian company. I lost $3000 with these 2 engines. Do you think I want to try one of their new ones?
