" I suppose I'm in even more trouble now than I was.... " I've got your number. [>:] ............................................ Just kidding silverman.

Ralph was a GodSend to me at last years IMAA West Coast Festival. After my Brison 3.2 equipped Gee Bee misbehaved, Ralph tweeked it to perfection right there at the event !

Both he, and his lovely wife, are two very fine people.

> Jim

We will all suffer for his absence....At least all except for the folks at Brillelli..

Having owned a G-62, an couple of DA50's and a DL50 I can attest to how these engines perform and the DL is one sweetheart of an engine...Those that refuse to believe that the Chineese cannot make a decent engine that lasts have their heads in the sand...Or somewhere else...And funny how guys are comparing engines to the DL50 that have about a 20% displacement advantage........Cubic inch for cubic inch the DL SMOKES anything in it's class...Not to mention how user friendly it is...

Ralph has forgotten more than some of us have learned in a lifetime of engine tinkering...In case any of you have forgotten.......I can't hardly wait for the DL Turbine to come out.....

Kevin

LOL what a post Brillelli isn't effected either way.. I have nothing to do with Brillelli.. just another happy customer. I don't see how the 2 even remotely relate.

I could care less what kind of engine they make.. it's not going to stay at that price forever and there will always be guys like me who would rather support a "local guy" then go overseas.

There is no comparison between the DL and the Brillelli... the only reason that came up in the first place was because Ralph decided to say that the DL was stronger than the Brillelli because it was as strong or stronger than the G-62. Sorry the B60 is stronger than a G-62 so that statement wasn't true on Ralph's part... all I did was correct him.

Maybe you should get your facts straight before you go off on some unrelated tagent.

Kevin- I am Brillelli, an all I can say is I had NO problem with Ralph at all. I talked to him and PM'd him from time to time. I had no quarrel with him nor him with me as far as I know. If he did he certainly never came to me and said anything. Ralph has done this before He will be back. He will get to bored if he can't be on the forms poking at someone

Synergy---Do we need to go over to the Billelli 60cc thread to refresh your memory???---No tangent here...Or do you again need to go over to the other thread to go over what was said....And don't talk about what is made and where...I do support the "local guy" as I bought my DL from the dealer here in the states...And aren't some of the Brillelli engines made of parts from the Asian part of the world???...Kioritz comes to mind...

In case you don't want to go over the entire Brillelli 60cc thread I'll refresh your memory concerning Scott's negative comments about the DL50 and his refusal to admit it is a good engine...And the Brillelli is just another 60cc engine...And perhaps Ralph has more than just a few examples that will out turn your example...Until we can all get togther on the same day with the same weather conditons and the same props....As they say in the Tootsie Pop commercial---"The world may never know....."

Kevin

Gawd this is just getting out of hand....

When that came up Ralph posted HIS numbers on both engines using the same prop and then quickly erased them as I posted numbers that I have on video using the same prop that were higher than he said both engines did for him. I would think with all his wealth of experience he can tune it for the best performance...

Either way you are completely missing the point. I could 100% careless about the DL and what it does.. I have no interest in the motor or another 50cc size plane.


If you want to call things the way they are maybe you should also bring up the fact that this entire thread (which is a waste of space) is solely about the fact that grumpy Ralph threw a hissy fit and took some time off because the world didn't bow down to his 190MPH planes and 50 million years of expereince because he was one of the first to take someone else's engine and put EI on it.

I guess we do need to go over it. I did not rip on the DL. I simply said I did not know how good of an engine it was or how long it would last. The fact is, someone else, Rcign, came in talking about the DL in a thread that was not about it. Making unfounded claims. Typical pokes. I am used to it. Bill at Taurus had to get real used to the comments from Ralph for a long time until he tired of them and moved on to me. Do your research on that one. Look through the Taurus threads. THat is unless he edited them like allways. The thread was not about the DL, and I said what I thought. It is a form. I am allowed to do that, just like you are. The rules are the same for all of us.

I agree....This is getting out of hand...What I hate about the internet is that you cannot directly converse with one another---If we were all just sitting around the fire, drinking a beer or two and hashing out the friendly BS, no ones feelings would be hurt....We could SEE how the other reacted and act accordingly...

I did come on a bit strong though as I can understand what Ralph's side is...Have any of you heard of "Weather Power Factor"??? What Ralph recorded on one day in HIS environment can, and most likely, will be different from what you record in YOUR area as the given temp, barometric pressure, humidity, altitude, and etc will all be different...Even props of the same manufacturer of the same size and pitch will give differing readings...Basically you can take anyone's figures with a grain of salt as your #'s will vary...Use them for reference ONLY!!!

Soooo---Basically Ralph was called a liar and I took exception to that....Give the man the benefit of the doubt due to his experience and expertise....The #'s are as they are as measured by him on that given day...As a former automobile racer I can understand how Ralph can bang his head on the wall trying to explain his #'s...

Again, sorry for coming on too strong....It's been a bad week....

Kevin

Kevin,

No problem. I just do not like my company name being run through the muck. I have worked too hard to achieve a good reputation and I will defend it. That is about the only time you will see me on the forms being anything but helpful. The fact is DL was brought up in a non DL thread by someone who should know better is what bothered me. I took offence because I NEVER do that. I am sure there is nothing wrong with the DL. I just do not like thier play on the DA brand. DA worked very hard to get were they are. I did say that I found it hard to believe a DL would beat a G62 or a DA. I did say that I would need to see it myself. It was not ment to rip on anyone, just that I would have to see it to believe it.

I unserstand compleatly about running 2 engines side by side, same prop, same fuel, same time. That is the only way to get an accurate comparison. I have done it many times with different engines.

Well.. I am off to bed myself.. thought I would take one last gander..


In the end some are going to like Chev, some Ford, some Honda, and some Toyota. No getting around that.

Let's be clear though... I never called him a liar or anything of the sort... in fact he said what I was saying was impossible and then I offered to show him video and that was that.. we are here.

I have never doubted his knowledge.. just commented on the way it's presented. Many have commented on his aggressive style.. while I am pretty much the say way.. I speak my mind and rarely have that little gizmo that holds your mouth or comments back.


I have sent the man biz several times in the last yr.. so let's not make this out to be more than it is. Bunch of guys sitting around with too much testosterone and a bunch of passion

One last thing... in all fairness.. please don't equate my actions or comments with Brillelli... I am a strong supporter howver I am under my own leash and sometimes I get away with my own passion. I am just another addicted flyer who spends more hrs thinking abnout / watching videos, or playing on the sim then I care to really add up.

OK, Back up a little guys!

In the thread in question, all I did was poke fun at the number of pages the DL and Brillelli threads had in them. I think the DL had a few more at the time and my comment was who was going to win the page race. Nowhere, not once, nada, nyet, ever, did I make note of any performance, construction, build location, or longevity diffences between the two makers anywhere in the last 20 pages of the thread, and perhaps none in the first 20. Only the page counts did I refer to. That and only that.

I can get in enough trouble all by myself, thank you very much, without anyone helping me into more. Worse, it wasn't even of my making. Gimme a break here.

THAT is the whole point...There doesn't need to be any sides...everyone knows that G62's have been around forever and are great engines..but there ARE other others that are just as good or better.....

-------------



Ermmmm - Maybe just as good - but not better. (wink) <G>

I buy engines from all of the vendors I've noticed on the RCU forums. All have treated me well and have provided excellent service.

If we were in person and not on the internet, there would be fist fights from time to time. That is the nature of competitive humans.

Just as some young/inexperienced folks resent the knowledge of some of the older farts on the forums, some of the older farts get a bit steamed when a newbie swaggers into the group and begins issueing proclamations, as though he knew what he was doing. But, somehow, we all survive.


Ed Cregger

Ya know...there's a deeper issue here (at least imo)...one I've muttered quietly (or sometimes loudly) to myself about, but have never really "opened my keyboard" about on here....I think I will now, since, apparently, a gentleman I consider to be a true asset to this forum and this hobby has chosen to vacate this community 9at least for a while) because of it.

Avid modelers (much like scale pilots, ime) tend toward "type A personalities", as it were. Many of us have a competitive streak a mile wide, and very few of us are afraid to speak our minds. We energize ourselves not only from flying, but from sharing our expertise, knowledge, and wisdom with others, so that we may see THEM enjoy the hobby more, and that we may see the hobby grow and prosper.

None of these are "bad" things, to be sure...HOWEVER, they CAN lead to some pretty pointless (imo) "debates".

Ya know...I'm a HUGE fan of the G-62, particularly after Ralph gets his hands on it. I will, quite bluntly, have a very hard time being convinced to try ANY other engine on a 50cc class airframe. But ya know, that doesn't mean there aren't "other engines just as good or better". It doesn't mean that others, who fly other engines, are wrong. It doesn't mean I'm wrong for being loyal to that engine.

What it means is that I, personally, have learned that I am PLEASED WITH THAT ENGINE in a wide variety of applications. I know it, I understand it, I know what to expect from it, and it delivers what _I_ want in airframe XYZ. Period.

Now...will I come on here and suggest to someone that they give consideration to an RC Ignitions G-62 for certain airframes? ABSOLUTELY I will. Will I engage in a big debate about whether it's "better" or "worse" than some other engine? No. Why? Simple...IT'S NOT MY AIRPLANE. I will pass along my feelings, but by no means is anyone somehow "less intelligent" or "less of a modeler" if they don't share them.

And that, I think, is my point here. We, as a group, tend to be fiercely loyal to those people, companies, and products that have provided us with good results. But we also tend to sometimes confuse "fact" or "wisdom" with "loyalty". We go beyond simply supporting a particular product to somehow thinking less of others who can't or won't see the value of said product.

I know....several of you will say you were simply wanting to see "evidence" of certain claims, or perhaps you were "proving" that something was possible when someone else said it wasn't. The point here isn't who was "right", however...the issue is...DOES IT MATTER???

A friend of mine (one with a great many decades in this hobby, and more experience with it in his little finger than I'll ever have in my body) said to me once:

"Ya know what the best prop in the world is, for any application?"

"No! What?!?" I asked, prepared to be filled with the wisdom and knowledge of the ages....I was about to learn a CRITICAL secret in RC lore...

"The one that makes the plane fly the way you want."

A bit anti-climactic, I thought.

His point, however, was valid...and it is the point I hope to make here. Every single one of us is different. We fly differently, we enjoy different airplanes, we fly at different locations, we expect different things from our airplanes, we fly them in different environmental conditions, we ask them to perform different maneuvers, and we ask them to perform them in different fashions.

The "best" equipment, for each of us, is the equipment that makes OUR airplane do those things in OUR way under OUR conditions. Period. More RPM from a motor doesn't mean "better"...it means "more RPM". If I WANT more RPM, that's a good thing...but I can show you a kit in my shop right now for which I'll want FEWER RPM! the reasons don't matter....the point is, you telling me "this engine will give you more RPM on that prop" would steer me AWAY from that engine for THAT plane.

So WHAT if Ralph thinks a particular thing isn't possible, but you know it to be. Fine. Say that you disagree, and if anyone's interested you can "prove" it and leave it at that. Ralph will go on doing his engines his way, customers will continue to adore them, and you'll go on being happy with YOUR choice of engines doing what YOU'VE gotten it to do on YOUR airframes. And guess what...WE'LL ALL ENJOY OUR AIRPLANES!

Imagine that...everyone having fun flying their airplane of choice. What a novel idea.

================================================== ===========

Ralph, if you're lurking, know that your input, vision, and wisdom are missed around here, and we hope you'll return ASAP.

I'm not associated with Sinergy or Brillilli and I don't have any leash.

But, That IS really what started it all!! And it was completely off topic. One of the reasons I and many other typically leave RCU is because the moderators show real favortism. Vendor and personal favortism. Its a fact, eventhough, I'm the first to admit that I probably couldn't do better at unbiased censorship.

Why else would someone make a post about DL in a Brillelli thread except to "invite" the comparison???? To discuss page counts? Ridiculous! "Thats covering the emperors jewels in a robe."

And as Silversufer likes to say, its the most powerful motor in the "50cc class." I have seen NO PUBLISHED NUMBERS yet that show the DL 50 or the G62 is more powerful than a Brillilli 60. If they exist, post them. All the numbers posted on a DL50, are on a smaller wooden 22x8 or a CF 23x8. The B60 is getting those numbers or higher on a larger wooden 23x8 prop. Thats all Sinergy said... RCIGN called him a liar and Sinergy offered to show him the video. But he was not interested really in having anyone prove him wrong. The fact is both Silversurfer and RCIGN have not run a Brillilli 60. I don't know that for a fact but its almost an immediate conclusion to arive at. If they had, they would not be able to type what they keep typing into their computer or caveating the post as "in the 50cc class" so as to cover a motor that could be considered a 60cc class.

One of the problems with all that experience is folks have trouble "seeing new or believing new things". Obviously thats the issue Ralph and others are having. He can't believe a new DL 50 is getting better numbers than he gets on his G62 and he can't believe a B60 is getting better numbers than both. He'll just have to get over it. I'm not really interested in making friends or influencing people on here so I could really care less. I resent the now implication that somehow Brillilli or the Brillilli thread I was on had something to do with Ralph leaving. He's in denial all by himself as are others.

This type of behavior is exactly why I spend very little time on RCU. I'm really glad that I was able to find another group of people intrested in this hobby that can actually share information without bickering like little children.

Whatever the reason that Ralph isn't visiting this site, the reality is that you guys have lost a valuable asset.

I'M GLAD THAT I AM STILL ABLE TO GET HIS HELP WHEN I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH AN ENGINE.

The moderators will delete half these posts and close this thread down at any second. There is no forum where you can go to that escapes "PEOPLE" talking or people that come on claiming to be less childish than the next guy.

LOL!!

This one will bounce around some. Thses are some things that come to mind I think should be addressed.

If someone what's to be factual I said the Taurus 52 is the powerful engine in the current 50cc class. I don't consider a 58-60cc or more from anyone to be in the 50cc class. For me that class runs from 45 to 55cc. A 58 lands in the 60cc class. That claim is made not just from rpm numbers, but available torque at various rpm as well. My hobby tests are performed with both the tach and in actual flight. As was noted before, what the numbers say is not the true performance of an engine, but what it will do in flight with various propellers and under various conditions.

As for my comment about page counts, when you're sitting in a hotel in the middle east, take a look for the first time in awhile at a forum, and see two threads pertaing to two different makers that hve run up to between 60 and 40 pages, respectively, you might find it amusing that so many have gone on for so long about the same things. If you start reading through them you find that after about the 7th page of ewither one most of what continues is a rehash of what went before. It was funny!




I do not now, nor have I ever, compared a Brillelli against a DL. Scott (Brillelli) makes a very fine engine, and takes damn good care of his customers. At the moment there are only three manufacturers that go to extremes to make their customers happy. You alrady know who they are. Brilllelli, DA, and BME. The rest get to a returned engine when they can.

DL entered the market with a copy of an "American" made engine and after some initial problems managed to overcome the issues inherent with the original. I have a 3W clone here at the house that looks promising, but who knows. 5 years from now we may finally have an answer about the reliability and durability of Chinese offshoots. Until then those that buy them are nothing more than part of a large experiment.

If the cloned engines fail a year or two down the road, how much money was saved in the original low price? Will that "local" manufacturer still be around for you to buy a new engine from or will he have been run out of business by the offshore manufacturers?

Performance is not just about rpm. Those that have taken the time and incurred the expense to experiment with different props for different engines and airframes will accurately tell you that often lower rpm has much higher performance that more rpm. It's also about reliability, longevity, accuracy in tuning, ease of operation, heat dispersion, and other factors that many don't look at. Brillelli engines meet all those requirements. Many other engine types do as well.

ENOUGH ALREADY

I have been lurking on here...
I have seen all the mis interpretations and false statements...
FOR THE RECORD...I tested some engines a while back and posted the results...One of the tests was a DL50....I used a XOAR 23-8 wood prop...6700 rpm, stock muffler...My G62 ran the same prop 5 minutes later 6600 rpm...No muffler..
I said at that time the DL50 is a very good Chinese engine, and somewhere else said that Bobkra "hit the engine jackpot"...Does that sound like criticism ? Maybe some people need to take a course in reading comprehension
3D-aholic, if you can find evidence ANYWHERE on this or any other forum where I called Sinergy a liar, please cut and paste the post, I will explain what was said in terms you can maybe understand...No "reading between the lines" allowed....
Scott has taken some chainsaw parts and made a 60cc engine...It's a very good engine...If he wants to think the DL50 and Crrc pro are inferior, that's his privilege, time will tell...
There is no way to make multiple engines that all run the same...I can get 1000 rpm difference between multiple engines by using different 22-10 props...If your 366 turns more than a G62, maybe someone else's 366 and a different G62 will be different..So what ?
And just for you, Sinergy, the (.) sometimes seen in my posts is the result of me changing my mind, nothing else..I guess you never say something and later want to change or remove it...A post can't be completely deleted, something must be left...It could be anything, a simeple (.) works as well as anything else...I DID NOT try to hide the results of my tests because your 366 was turning more rpm....
The same goes for anyone else, if you want something I said interpreted, show it to me...
Herby 1 is an old identity from 2003...Computer problems

Somehow I am not surprised...



That was your response after I posted numbers. I am well aware about the "." it happens all the time...


Either way... I am done with this one... you asked to be shown the comment in question, so I did.


Edit: One last after thought and I am 100% done with this thread... Ralph you always manage to indirectly knock someone or something.. It's no secret the B60 has a chain saw top half.. it's also no secret you took a similar product and did the same thing!... Much like you made one post about Hey look at this new engine and it was G38 or whatever..

This is exactly why you and I butt heads.

Maybe I should just you ignore your jabs... but it's not really my personality. I try to be as helpful as I can here and if you saw me down at the field on a Sunday I spend 2-4 hrs training every Sunday, then test fly planes, help with setups, tune engines, etc etc... Often spend more time flying other people's planes than my own. Lucky for me Ihave a great wife and Sat. is "My" flying day

So while all who see me on here may have a different opinion of me.. that's fine.. but I will speak my mind always. Call that good or bad...

An excellent post, gboulton. Hear - hear!


Ed Cregger

What it boils down to is that every post is "someones opinion" and you know what they say about opinions and you know what... I don't care if you have been running engines for 50 years or build them in your sleep....ultimate it boils down to just an opinion. It is clouded by your own prejudgments and biases which only increase with age. I'm no whipper snapper.

Telling someone that they have their head up their anatomical extremity is pretty much calling them a Liar in my book. I'll let everyone else decide and form their own "Opinion" since you can easily subscribe that to reading between the lines. I think it was uncalled for, warrants an apology and really should have been taken off the thread since it directly violates RCU posting rules. So all I can say is you must have a lot of friends on RCU who are moderators.

Also, I will tell you that the numbers you have posted for the DL50 are the absolute BEST I have ever seen and the best numbers I have seen of any other poster on the thread. You are achieving the absolute 99.9 percentile for your DL50. Not calling you a liar btw as I believe you. I do think you are probably getting the best that is possible. Now, I will tell you that on that same prop I got 6850 on my B60 on the first 4 ounces of fuel on the brand new engine out of the box. And my numbers are low with the old style muffler and crappy poulan oil mixed at 40:1 and I don't claim 40 years of engine development or ignition experience. I didn't take a video so I don't have the physical evidence Sinergy has of what is probably the absolute worst you can get on the B60.

Thanks, Ed. Any time you want to make a drive up toward nashville to ENJOY FLYING SOME AIRPLANES, let me know.

(Unless of course you're flying a DA...anyone who owns one of THOSE things is obviously unworthy of my time. ) [sorry...couldn't help it. ]