Mr.FiberOptic

also what channel for smoke with all that. would i need an 8 or 9 channel to do smoke and choke and kill switch from transmitter?

Tired Old Man

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cmoulder

That's the conundrum when considering a kill switch. You give up a channel for something that is rarely, if ever, needed when you want it for something that is regularly needed like choke, smoke, flaps, etc. It's easy to see why guys doing big scale projects need 12 or 14 channels. I'm all for safety, but triple (or quadruple - thr kill, ign sw, choke, opt kill) redundancy for the same function is a bit puzzling.

Servo reverser for elevator sounds nice, but getting both elevators synched is pretty tough (impossible, really) that way.

My channels run like this: 1) R ail 2) elev 3) throttle 4) rudder B) 1st Rx batt 5) smoke 6) L ail 7) choke 8) 2nd Rx batt. I would have gone with a manual choke if the engine had been an original installation instead of a retrofit.

I think it might be possible to use a Y harness with Ch8 to put the 2nd Rx batt and ignition kill into the slot, but I am not sure of the advisability of doing so.

Heli-NuBee

First I want to say that I respect Pat's opinions and offerings. He has provided some very valuable info on this forun. However, I disagree with his opinion on the use of emery or sand paper to prevent prop or spinner slipage when tightening the center prop bolt. Please understand that the use of the paper is simply to cause friction for tightening the bolt while preventing slipage of the prop or spinner backplate on the smooth rear thrust washer. How many of you have had trouble tightening the prop or spinner in the position desired because of slipage? The emery paper serves no purpose with the engine running and should not offer any more danger of comming apart than any othe componet due to the pressure exerted by the prop bolt. I waited to respond to this comments until I was able to check with other local (Central Calif) experts that are well known and respected in the RC community. The practice of using emery or sandpaper on smooth prop thrust washers has been going on in our area for years without any known failures. The only way any of us can figure out how such a failure could take place is if the prop bolt were left loose which would result in a failure anyway. I provided the emery paper info as a helpful hint and I still believe it is valid. Maybe Pat knows something the rest of us don't but I did not post this to start an argument.

Best wishes and good safe flying.

Heli-NuBee (Roger)

Tired Old Man

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Piston

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Hey Bob
Safety is important as you state. You also have to break the safety factors down into mechanical and electrical and of course manual.

1. Throttle kill - closing the throttle - Mechanical (work is done through servo linkage)
Many of us practice dead stick landings, because it provides us with real world experience in how to handle aircraft that gravity controls, and to bring it in safely. Normally, when a dead stick situation occurs, the only "crap out" is the engine. We are committed to land and the focus is on bringing the aircraft in for a non bumpy landing. Many of us are pretty good with them. The control of the aircraft is still there except for power. In most of the situations the pilot did not choose to declare a dead stick landing. The ignition system is still considered live.

2. Ignition switch - mechanical - even though it can be manually switched or can be servo controlled
Ignition switches are usually activated mechanically and manually. This IS a safety switch, but mostly applies when the aircraft is not in a flight ready status, so accidental startups never occur. And of course it ensures your battery is not drained.

3. Choke - Mechanical - manual or servo controlled
A large percentage of pilots do not use servos to control their choke. It is easier to use a mechanical linkage. The servo option does work. However, in a panic situation, I would state that many of us would not think of using this option, if it was available. The immediate demands of the aircraft can be overwhelming to many of us. AND a pilot may only have seconds to make important and critical decisions. The ignition system is still considered live.

4. Optical Kill Switch - Electronic
Controlled by the transmitter and a switch that is user. This switch has been deliberately installed and programmed into the transmitter. The pilot is aware that flipping "that" switch will kill the engine. The switch is armed by the user when the Ignition Switch is turned on. When either the Ignition switch or the Optical Kill Switch is turned off then no power is flowing to the ignition module. If the Kill Switch is activated, there is no power going to the ignition switch. If you turn "off" the cut off switch, the ignition system still remains off until you reset the Ignition switch. This ensures that there are no accidental restarts happening when you least expect them.


We all have our personal thresholds of what constitutes enough safety factors that we feel comfortable having and using on our aircraft. Some (like me) cannot have enough safety factors built in. Others feel confident that their chosen safety systems will work to expectations when the need arises. Both of us "types" are right in our assertions.

The final decisions come from figuring out how to install and use our safety devices. I do understand that decisions need to be made if you don't have enough channels to accommodate all your requirements.
Overall, I personally feel, we should have at least 2 systems installed in our aircraft , that have been tested by the pilot, that will stop the engines cold and sure. Even if one of those "systems" is Down elevator..... At least there is a final solution to ensuring the engine does not spin.
The final scenario is the safety of us and those around us is foremost in our minds.

Henry

cmoulder

Henry,

Again you have given a good summary of ignition kill pros and cons, and I apologize for kicking the dead horse.

I brought it up again only in the context of the question of how to manage limited channel availability.

Tired Old Man

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Mr.FiberOptic

so i can use any of the dual rate switches for a different function? so i have lots of switches if i give up the dual rate functions right?

i wasn't planning on putting the receiver batteries on any channel just the ignition kill switch and the choke. if closing the throttle all the way will act as a choke then that will work for me.

that is how i killed the glow engines on other planes. i'm glad i asked and thanks for the info guys.

i never had use for the dual rate switches before i always flew on whatever rate i liked. i'm not good at 3d stunts anyways. i will leave extremely high rates to the experts.

i just want mildly high rates to fly on all the time. the plane is mostly docile on high rates when you reduce your speed anyways, right? i guess it depends on how high the rate is set.

OldFart1

Well, I ran out of time Friday night - so i just did a quick swap out - did NOT retune after each swap.

18x8 was 13.2 lbs
16x10 was right at 12 lbs
16x8 was a little over 10 lbs

Put the 16x10 on her and flew. Noticibly faster than Gary's on 16x8, and my fuel consumption was down a LOT from the 18x8 (flew 10 minutes at WOT, used about 12-14 oz).

Will tune to that prop next time, fly - then try the 15x10 (and peak that one too)

Mr.FiberOptic

WOT? im assuming that is wide open throttle unless you say otherwise.

OldFart1

Yes sir

cmoulder

These topics and questions cover an awful lot of territory![X(]

My recommendation is to discuss all this stuff with somebody in your club who is experienced with gassers and with programming your transmitter (which I infer to be a Futaba 9C?). Suffice to say, your Tx has plenty of switch options, but it is extremely difficult to figure out what's best for your personal preferences and your particular model set-up without seeing it and discussing it in person. Better to have a local mentor in such things!

Believe me, we could easily get a debate going that would last 15 pages simply on the topic of putting rates on 1 switch or separate switches.[>:]

ghostrider168

Henry,

I have the 26cc engine. Just wondering what size is the prop hub center bolt and the size for the tapped hole for the cone screw?

Gary

OldFart1

Gary, if it's the same as mine the center bolt is 8x1.25mm. Most of the aftermarket hubs need a 10-32 tapped hole - this doesn't leave much "meat" (I've already snapped one of the bolts my buddy made for me - fortunately not in flight)

Henry - if RCGF/Aerovate is going to chase any of the "scale" or "warbird" market, they need to step up to the plate and start offering these bolts as a factory item sooner rather than later. 8x1.25x45mm, center tapped for 10-32.

ByLoudDesign

Is there a good site to get dimensional information and maybe a 3-view, looking at the 50 & 100 cc engines, single and boxer!

Piston

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Hey All

Oldfart1 - I hear you load and clear!!!! Message about the center bolts has already been sent to the factory. I agree with you on the 10-32 bolts... and the length too!!!

Bylouddesign - [link=http://www.zrcgf.com/pages/manuals.cfm]Manuals and Dimensions[/link] Click here.. you will go the manual section. Download the engine manual you need further information on. The specs are there.

Cheers
Henry

ByLoudDesign

Henry ~ Thank you so much, first time a manufacture as supplied that infromation so quickly!

Mr.FiberOptic

cmoulder. it's a futaba 7C 2.4Ghz.

and i don't have a vehicle that is wheelchair accessible of my own. i did but it was beyond repair so it has been towed away and junked.

my mom has the wheelchair accessible van now that she drives to work so i have to wait til shes off work to get a ride from her.

i don't get out much especially since it's winter time. a rusty powerwheelchair is not what i want. i haven't been to the airfield for about 3 years either.

to set up my plane i have to talk to ppl online. been following the thread on here for the plane i have and this thread. just want some help guys. i can read a manual so i will do that but if i have a question i hope i can ask.

i can also ask the local hobby shops or futaba support thanks

Mr.FiberOptic

was just asking if i can reprogram those dual rate switches or if they are used only exclusively for the dual rates and not reprogrammable. im only on the 3rd page of the manual so far and will read it front to back.

OldFart1

Fiber, if you want to PM me, i'll try to help with your Futaba q's - I'm a 9C owner, but the programming should be similar.

Tired Old Man

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ghostrider168

Henry,

I got mind in late Dec., should the center bolt be same size as Jeff/oldfart1?

Jeff,

Look what I had found. If we have the same size bolt, we could use the following. The only thing is that it is only 40mm. Do you think it will fit?

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXKE17&P=7

The specs are:

This is a 8x1.25x40mm Hex Cap Screw (1-5/8" Lg) with 8mm Bushing Adapter Kit from Tru-Turn.
FEATURES: The bushing, washer, and adapter nut is precision machined for a true running spinner. Steel washer and screw. Head of screw is tapped 10-32 for cone screw.

cmoulder

Mr.FiberOptic,

I'm with OldFart1 on that one: PM me with questions and I'll be glad to do my best to talk you through set-up. I'm 9C user as well, but I have helped with a couple of 7C's and there are many similarities. Plus I can access the user manual online at Futaba's website.

The quick answer regarding switch assignments and rates is that there is a lot of flexibility to reprogram and put whatever you want on whatever switch (almost!).

You are going about it the right way to read through the manual first. Follow that up by setting up your model using the examples in "Acro" mode, with the model right in front of you and following the examples. If you hit a snag or want to do something not covered in the manual, the Futaba FAQ's have a lot of info. A lot of times it isn't explained in plain English, so just ask some of us!

Heli-NuBee

I found the center bolt supplied with my RCGF 26 to be to short when using a TRU-Turn spinner. I believe the bolt supplied is 40mm. Tower sells a Zenoah G38 Tru-Turn spinner bolt kit that is the right size and thread but is also only 40mm long which is a little short for me. I ordered a bolt from a machinest that I know for my engine. New bolt will be 8mm x 1.25 thread x 45 to 50mm long and will be drilled and tapped for a 10-32 MS. Total cost including shipping was $6.00.

Best wishes and good safe flying.

Heli-NuBee (Roger)