Yes, there is a 22lb Stinger at my field with a G62 that will climb out of sight. You've got to be kidding saying that a 17lb plane won't go unlimited with a G62.

I have a pitts weighting in @ 21# full of fuel & smoke oil, it has unlimited verticle with a mezjlik 22x12 on a g-62 turning 6800 rpm, Ha!!!

everyone has their own interpretation
of unlimited performance ----
The hard test we use , is to pull to a vertical position --hover -then proceed vertically.
this is a lot tougher than any verticals done with some momentum.
My little Petrol Petrol at 11 lbs and a zdz 40 would accelerate out of this test - vertically- very rapidily .
Not the norm --
If a model will recover and move cleanly into another vertical maneuver -such as a snap or accurate point rolls - that is what I consider unlimited vertical performance -
To each his own.

The one thing that I have noticed is that people say there engine will hover at 1/2 throttle. That I think is kind of misleading. When I first setup my 15 lb. cap and ran it it would climb out of site at 1/2 to 5/8 throttle. I wonder if these people have ever tached thier motors when there throttle stick as at half throttle. I found on my ZDZ 40 that I was turning almost peak RPMS at a 1/2 to 5/8 of thottle stick. I'm sure alot of it depends on what size arms you have on the carb and servo. The only way that I know of setting up the throttle so that at 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and full thottle you have true numbers is by programing a thottle curve. I did this and found that it made thottle application much smoother and more precise.

Fishgod has a point. The way engines run, you get about 80% power at half throttle. Awesome power is what the TOC guys run, just above idle and the plane will climb in a hover.

Yes, personal experience. World Models Extra w/ 160. from a hover, will climb out. Come on, 160's turn better than 40cc gas.

Dream on - 25 cc vs 40 cc.
the reason the 160 engines do as well as they do is that they are burning alky and nitro .
but given that, put a 20x10 MenzS onyour 160 -
this is a good check for torque comparison. can you turn it 6500?
Obviously, the 160 will be way off it's power curve-
different ballgame.
Oh yes -160's turn faster than 40's
but on much less prop load.

I understand all of that, Dick, But for planes in the 10-13lb range the 160 is the way to go. Not trying to say I'm right because it is all personal preference, but it is not worth the weight penalty for me when the 72" aerobats need as much help as they can get for a decent wing loading. 39 oz with pitts muff ready to go and it will be within a pound or so of thrust from a 40. I'll pay my $.90 per flight for that. I've read they are turning 20x6's at about 7200. Not bad for being 2000 below it's peak power. It will turn a 19x6 at about 8K, haven't put a scale on it but it feels like 18-20 lbs of thrust. 12 lb planes accelerate vertically.

If owners of 2.4's were posting rpms much higher than my 160 or Moki 1.8, I would have one, but they are not. The rpm I am seeing is about the same in the 18-20" prop range. When a 2.4 will turn a 20x10 in the 7000 rpm range, <4lbs for $350-$400 I'll be interested. Just by the numbers, the new 50s coming out are about the smallest I would go, and I have the "I wants" for the DA.

FYI, I truly respect your expertise in this field, Mr. Hanson, Thanks for your opinion.

40s on small can exhausts and fifties on in cowl exhaust DO run at or close to 7000 rpm -
which props used in these tests IS important --
these were Bambula 20 x10 props and at 4500 ft elevation on other props with narrow blades the rpm is typically higher .
For what it isworth - we ran ST2300's on 25/30% nitro small tuned exhaust and 18x8 APC props -these turned over 9000 and pulled like a freight train - but at 16 bucks a gallon -I finally threw in the towel - 7 flights per gallon
that's over 2 bucks a shot.
Low nitro - 1.6 setups are a lot less expensive to run -and are a better way to go but here at 13 lbs - they just would not do the job - close -but no cigar --

True, I fly at 400' elev. Thrust is plentiful here.

Programming a throttle curve is a MUST and you are right so many don't do it... even putting expo on it to slide the power curve more fully across the trhow helps....

Very true... out fo the box 1/2 throttle is WAY more than 50% power...

G26, 18-6 Mej, 17.5 lbs pull on a spring scale, unlimited vertical on a 9 lb airplane scratch built by Ron Dickson, owned by Leonard Norred, North Las Vegas flying field..
FWIW..The tach numbers for the DA 50 by awat here agree with Dave Johnson's numbers....
Just looked at the first post here..The 24-8 PK prop I used on the new DA50 puts a serious load on an engine..A PK 22-10 on a G62 turns only about 6200 rpm, a Zinger 22-10 about 7000....Mejzliks turn way easier....

Guys,
One thing I noticed that has not been mentioned in this thread is the fact that DA engines put out torque accross a broad range. They are designed to have a wide usable aerobatic range. These engines pull harder at lower rpms than any engine I have seen or am aware of. Actually, I don't think they make an engine that runs like they do. You have to ***FLY*** them to understand this. You can load a DA down and it will pull as hard as it will turning way up high. It just won't spool up or accelerate as fast, but it won't bog down and give up in the verticals. These engines are very strong. There is a reason they have the reputation and following they do, and that same reason is why they are selling these things as fast as they can put them out. I don't wanna start a brand war and am not trying to, but these engines are superior in many ways to others made. They are extremely smooth. They have truly linear throttle transition, and the transition is 'click by click' with no blurbs or hesitations or flat spots. The reason these things run the way they do is no accident. They work very hard testing and refining these engines BEFORE they go out the door. Every single detail on these engines has been attended to. They are not the cheapest, but you get alot more when you buy one. Price to me is not even a consideration when buying stuff for my planes. I do not care what something cost. I only care about how it performs and want it to be as trouble free as possible. I know I go on and on about these engines sometimes...yes I do, but these engines are built to a standard that is very hard to achieve...that standard is to be the very best they can be. The guy behind this company also sends us these things for pure love of the hobby. He doesn't just do it for the money (although I know that is important as it is his income) but you can tell that he takes pride in every one of those things that goes out the door. He has a genuine concern for people and wants them to be happy. That to me is what makes this hobby great. People that have concern, and actually care, and want things to 'shine'.

If your 62 cant pull a 17 pounder you need to go back an learn to set it up.
A 50s a fifty.

Some of these rpm figures are suspect to say the least!!!

Which ones

Lets just say I once stood next to someone and actually saw their tach figures and then heard it later ?? Was I watching the same thing????????????

The G26 and G38 figures came from a TNC tach..Got a better one ?

Not including you in that comment , Ralph,but as you well know there are people using this forum and out there with some axes to grind and the figures always come out in favor of the brand THEY have chosen.

AndyT you kinda jumped in here with your ax already ground and sharp. Why I don't know. Just a bunch of fellas telling fish storys and having fun. What kind of engines do you run?

The G62 on Stinger Thomas was talking about , ZDZ, G38, 3W, Mvvs, Poulan conversion.
Dont mean to upset people just went and ground off my ax
It does seem that some of the figures are all over the place and there seem to be a variety of other things that can influence the readings.
For example there was a long running thing re Taurus engines.
Now I know they are a fine motor etc etc but are they turning that many more rpms than a comparable ZDZ etc.?
Maybe if we could average out the reported readings we could get some good prop/engine data.
I for one would like that as it would save a bunch of hassle choosing a prop.

Choosing a PROP !!! What the %$#@#$#%#$#@. Man That can get expensive QUICK. A 50cc engine usually cost about 150.00 before I find the one that works nice for the combination. I have a DA 100 for a Cap and a 3w 150 in a Ultimate, no flights on either yet. This will be a 400.00 dollar adventure to find the one I like for these. Someone needs a prop exchange service to help the hobby out. When I get these running I'll post some inflated rpm data. HeHeHeHe

Kent

Maybe RCU could look into that???Hint, Hint

It's really very easy to choose a prop for one of these things. Just give DA a call, tell them the type of performance you want from the airplane, and I can guarantee you they will tell you what prop and brand will gibe it to you. Best bets are a 22x10 or 24x8 Menz or Mejzlik for the the two blades. On those props I can promise you that you won't have performance worries. In fact, it'll probably take 3-5 weekends of hard flying just to get to the point where you will be able to control it without using too much power. They don't guess on props, they test them. They will tell you exactly how each one performs. Hope this helps.

the props listed above are fine for the DA50 -the ZDZ50 -and Iwould guess any good 50 -
Where you can REALLY loose performance (here we go) is the FU---muffler -on the DA or the others .
The std DA muffler or the new Pitts style they sell will turn a Mejzlic 22x8 -over 7000 -and youwill not be squeezing the needle - just let the engine break in nicely .
Having said that - DO NOT expect a MenzS to turn the same - if in doubt on that - EMail DA
Props vary an ungodly amount in performance from brand to brand - and muffler to muffler .
another example of this is a new 35 I was bench testing - on the APC20x10 - 6600 rpm - switch to Bambula 20x10 - 5800.
that is 800 rpm difference.
The stuff you hear about fantastic rpms on these Mejzlic props simply means - they load less per size - in many of their sizes -than some other brands - they are great props - just less static load .
To be fair -In some sizes the load is close to MenzS.
Another surprise example try a Mejzlic 28x10 - then try a MCS 26x10 - see how close they run to same static load . (on a100)
The long and the short of it is:
the recommended prop 22x8- be it the MenzS or the Mejzlic 22x8 - will both work an any of the new 50's -
the rpm tho may be 800 rpm different due to a bad muffler setup -muffler -I don't mean tuned or canister - just in cowl muffler stuff-