a powerful 30 cc engine
12-22-2009, 04:38 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
a powerful 30 cc engine
This is not for the buy n fly types so click off now.
Take a GOOD 30 cc glow engine (or something close to 30cc.)
buy a good new inexpensive Chinese ignition (see C&H if you want exact prices)
Buy 5% glow fuel - nothing stronger
This setup will give far more power than any gas fired 30 cc engine
Pricewise the engine and ignition conversion is quite reasonable.
the starting and running and carb adjustments are easy to do -even for newbies
If you really want power - add a good tuned pipe.
have I done this type conversion- Iused ST2300 engine cheap and very good quality.
Yes - it works very well.
The downside is that fuel will cost more than gasoline fuel and you will use double the amount
The upside is that the fuel is the cheapest glow fuel on the market -and usually easy to find -discounted to get rid of it
Take a GOOD 30 cc glow engine (or something close to 30cc.)
buy a good new inexpensive Chinese ignition (see C&H if you want exact prices)
Buy 5% glow fuel - nothing stronger
This setup will give far more power than any gas fired 30 cc engine
Pricewise the engine and ignition conversion is quite reasonable.
the starting and running and carb adjustments are easy to do -even for newbies
If you really want power - add a good tuned pipe.
have I done this type conversion- Iused ST2300 engine cheap and very good quality.
Yes - it works very well.
The downside is that fuel will cost more than gasoline fuel and you will use double the amount
The upside is that the fuel is the cheapest glow fuel on the market -and usually easy to find -discounted to get rid of it
12-22-2009, 04:53 PM
#2
RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
That is another real good way to go. I can get achohol for about $2.50 a gallon form Duneland where they do a lot of racing with dune buggies. Then just add a good lube that will mix in. Capt,n
12-22-2009, 05:08 PM
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
The compared power output (no dynos needed ) on my 1.4 Tigre setup was quite interesting
Without changing compression (a simple gasket change) I gor MORE power on same props using the 5% fuel and spark ignition, than I did using 30% nitro fuels
(actually the fuel I used was Heli #2 by Magnum fuel a very good fuel.)
The ignition setup started very easily and the extra power (which really surprised me ) was from being able to st the firing exactly when I wanted it . and it stayed there As I remember the typical setup ran 10000 on 18x8 APC
For those who don't know - a real problem with glow is that the timing (when the charge actually ignites) changes with heat
The wretched OS supercharged 1.2 of the past really suffered from this
I modified the heads to drop compression and got serious power frome these engines
OS stuffed the transfer pipe and restricted the intake at the carb base to try and solve the preignition which occurre d as the blower built up pressure (and heat.
An ignition setup would have solved the problem but none were available at the time.
The I am still surprised that the pattern guys have not discovered how well a alky and spark setup really runs
Probably because it does not cost enough
no Braggin rights.
PS at 2.50 a gallon for alky (thats a awfully GOOD price) plus up to 10 bucks a quart for really good synthetic - and a splash of nitro - fuel should be well under 10 bucks a gallon
Gas fuel I use costs me $2.50 for the gas and the all synthetic iol which is all I ever use - is $40 per gallon - but of course I use 35-1 not a 20% oil mix.
Without changing compression (a simple gasket change) I gor MORE power on same props using the 5% fuel and spark ignition, than I did using 30% nitro fuels
(actually the fuel I used was Heli #2 by Magnum fuel a very good fuel.)
The ignition setup started very easily and the extra power (which really surprised me ) was from being able to st the firing exactly when I wanted it . and it stayed there As I remember the typical setup ran 10000 on 18x8 APC
For those who don't know - a real problem with glow is that the timing (when the charge actually ignites) changes with heat
The wretched OS supercharged 1.2 of the past really suffered from this
I modified the heads to drop compression and got serious power frome these engines
OS stuffed the transfer pipe and restricted the intake at the carb base to try and solve the preignition which occurre d as the blower built up pressure (and heat.
An ignition setup would have solved the problem but none were available at the time.
The I am still surprised that the pattern guys have not discovered how well a alky and spark setup really runs
Probably because it does not cost enough
no Braggin rights.
PS at 2.50 a gallon for alky (thats a awfully GOOD price) plus up to 10 bucks a quart for really good synthetic - and a splash of nitro - fuel should be well under 10 bucks a gallon
Gas fuel I use costs me $2.50 for the gas and the all synthetic iol which is all I ever use - is $40 per gallon - but of course I use 35-1 not a 20% oil mix.
12-22-2009, 05:49 PM
#5
My Feedback: (29)
RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
ORIGINAL: rmh
The compared power output (no dynos needed ) on my 1.4 Tigre setup was quite interesting
Without changing compression (a simple gasket change) I gor MORE power on same props using the 5% fuel and spark ignition, than I did using 30% nitro fuels
(actually the fuel I used was Heli #2 by Magnum fuel a very good fuel.)
The ignition setup started very easily and the extra power (which really surprised me ) was from being able to st the firing exactly when I wanted it . and it stayed there As I remember the typical setup ran 10000 on 18x8 APC
For those who don't know - a real problem with glow is that the timing (when the charge actually ignites) changes with heat
The wretched OS supercharged 1.2 of the past really suffered from this
I modified the heads to drop compression and got serious power frome these engines
OS stuffed the transfer pipe and restricted the intake at the carb base to try and solve the preignition which occurre d as the blower built up pressure (and heat.
An ignition setup would have solved the problem but none were available at the time.
The I am still surprised that the pattern guys have not discovered how well a alky and spark setup really runs
Probably because it does not cost enough
no Braggin rights.
PS at 2.50 a gallon for alky (thats a awfully GOOD price) plus up to 10 bucks a quart for really good synthetic - and a splash of nitro - fuel should be well under 10 bucks a gallon
Gas fuel I use costs me $2.50 for the gas and the all synthetic iol which is all I ever use - is $40 per gallon - but of course I use 35-1 not a 20% oil mix.
The compared power output (no dynos needed ) on my 1.4 Tigre setup was quite interesting
Without changing compression (a simple gasket change) I gor MORE power on same props using the 5% fuel and spark ignition, than I did using 30% nitro fuels
(actually the fuel I used was Heli #2 by Magnum fuel a very good fuel.)
The ignition setup started very easily and the extra power (which really surprised me ) was from being able to st the firing exactly when I wanted it . and it stayed there As I remember the typical setup ran 10000 on 18x8 APC
For those who don't know - a real problem with glow is that the timing (when the charge actually ignites) changes with heat
The wretched OS supercharged 1.2 of the past really suffered from this
I modified the heads to drop compression and got serious power frome these engines
OS stuffed the transfer pipe and restricted the intake at the carb base to try and solve the preignition which occurre d as the blower built up pressure (and heat.
An ignition setup would have solved the problem but none were available at the time.
The I am still surprised that the pattern guys have not discovered how well a alky and spark setup really runs
Probably because it does not cost enough
no Braggin rights.
PS at 2.50 a gallon for alky (thats a awfully GOOD price) plus up to 10 bucks a quart for really good synthetic - and a splash of nitro - fuel should be well under 10 bucks a gallon
Gas fuel I use costs me $2.50 for the gas and the all synthetic iol which is all I ever use - is $40 per gallon - but of course I use 35-1 not a 20% oil mix.
12-22-2009, 06:21 PM
#6
My Feedback: (19)
RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
I certainly agree that from a power perspective, this is a solution. But most of us chose to get away from glo engines with their glo fuel mess, etc. Add to that after you buy the glo engine, convert it to ignition then continue to feed it glo fuel of any nitro mixture, you've spent a pile of money. Even an expensive gasser will be cheaper to own and operate in the long run. Fuel is certainly cheaper, there is much less mess, any engine (well any good quality engine) run on gas and oil has fewer bearing problems than ones run on alcohol mixtures and I can put the tank back at the CG because of that nifty walbro pumper carb. Yes, I have run pumps and regulators on glo engines .... never again. We got away from glo (fuel) for many reasons ..... this is the gas engine forum after all.
12-22-2009, 07:08 PM
#8
My Feedback: (19)
RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
ORIGINAL: w8ye
Running alcohol in a gas engine has the potential of rusty bearings just like in a glow engine
Running alcohol in a gas engine has the potential of rusty bearings just like in a glow engine
One of our local heli hot shots has flown gasser helis for years. Tried a methanol fuel mix this year and quickly switched back to gasoline. Even modified Walbro carbs were very touchy on alcohol.
12-22-2009, 07:54 PM
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
I figgered there were very few who actually ran alky spark setups
You don't use the Walbro carbs
and you don't try and convert a gas engine to alky
O well -
You don't use the Walbro carbs
and you don't try and convert a gas engine to alky
O well -
12-22-2009, 08:35 PM
#10
My Feedback: (19)
RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
ORIGINAL: rmh
I figgered there were very few who actually ran alky spark setups
You don't use the Walbro carbs
and you don't try and convert a gas engine to alky
O well -
I figgered there were very few who actually ran alky spark setups
You don't use the Walbro carbs
and you don't try and convert a gas engine to alky
O well -
12-22-2009, 08:40 PM
#11
RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
I've seen several four stroke glow engines like OS and Saito with C-H ignition and the people were running glow fuel slow flying J-3 Cub type planes
One of the most rusty glow engines I've ever seen was a Zenoah G-23 Glow engine.
One of the most rusty glow engines I've ever seen was a Zenoah G-23 Glow engine.
12-22-2009, 08:54 PM
#12
RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
ORIGINAL: w8ye
I've seen several four stroke glow engines like OS and Saito with C-H ignition and the people were running glow fuel slow flying J-3 Cub type planes
One of the most rusty glow engines I've ever seen was a Zenoah G-23 Glow engine.
I've seen several four stroke glow engines like OS and Saito with C-H ignition and the people were running glow fuel slow flying J-3 Cub type planes
One of the most rusty glow engines I've ever seen was a Zenoah G-23 Glow engine.
12-22-2009, 09:12 PM
#14
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
Like the use of alcohol in a gas engine to obtain more power is something new??? This is not an epiphany, the racers have been doing it since the begonning of speed....
Moreover, I'm under the impression that most of those purchasing 30cc gas engines are doing so to get away from the cost of glow fuel, so reverting to alcohol might be viewed as counter productive.
Moreover, I'm under the impression that most of those purchasing 30cc gas engines are doing so to get away from the cost of glow fuel, so reverting to alcohol might be viewed as counter productive.
12-22-2009, 09:23 PM
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RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
Moreover, I'm under the impression that most of those purchasing 30cc gas engines are doing so to get away from the cost of glow fuel, so reverting to alcohol might be viewed as counter productive.
Moreover, I'm under the impression that most of those purchasing 30cc gas engines are doing so to get away from the cost of glow fuel, so reverting to alcohol might be viewed as counter productive.
.......If i could just find some good ones
12-22-2009, 10:20 PM
#16
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RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
Gas or Glow are both ok , more CC always mean more power if engine are light enough . put biggest engine with out any CG problem . enjoy the fly . just that simple 
12-22-2009, 11:05 PM
#17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
ORIGINAL: Tired Old Man
Like the use of alcohol in a gas engine to obtain more power is something new??? This is not an epiphany, the racers have been doing it since the begonning of speed....
Moreover, I'm under the impression that most of those purchasing 30cc gas engines are doing so to get away from the cost of glow fuel, so reverting to alcohol might be viewed as counter productive.
Like the use of alcohol in a gas engine to obtain more power is something new??? This is not an epiphany, the racers have been doing it since the begonning of speed....
Moreover, I'm under the impression that most of those purchasing 30cc gas engines are doing so to get away from the cost of glow fuel, so reverting to alcohol might be viewed as counter productive.
The basic 30 cc gasoline ignition engines simply are not the same thing
many basic design differences.
I would not adapt a gas engine for glo fuel- nor did I even suggest it;
seen em - did not like em.
If anyone thinks the two deigns are the same
examine the differences.
many
naysayers- Have you actually tried this mod?
12-24-2009, 10:30 AM
#18
RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
I'm doing what your talking about to a Super Tigre .90 or a .61. Haven't decided yet which engine I'm putting in the plane (Hangar 9's Fokker D7). The ignition cost me about $120 with two sparkplugs from CH. My biggest complaint about glow is the unreliable igntion. Too many deadsticks from crappy glow plugs that cost $8 to $12 nowadays. The glow plug system is really a bad design when it comes to ignition timing. Get a cheap ST 2300, OS 1.60 FX, etc and put a spark ignition on it. I'll let you know how mine works out this spring.
12-24-2009, 12:15 PM
#19
Senior Member
Thread Starter
RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
The 2300 (1.4 Tigre) is awfully good
power to weight beats any of the "gassers"
The good part is that for whatever reason- the Tiger bearings don't crap out as do many others
The present Chinese built 2300 is -tahnk goodness the same as the first version of 2300 from Italy
someone (I suspect Hobico) screwed up subsequent carburator beyond belief
use either the stock carb and exhaust pressure or a header and pipe (again use exhaust pressure) - for a really smooth powerful arrangement
The gas conversions of the Tigres cn't touch this arrangement for smooth power.
We went thru the gas to glow CRAP stuf back when the tOC needed bigger engines to be competitive
These things sucked
The one we used was a Tarta twin with pipes and glo. a reed bank conversion by Bob Ausley and Vtech.
good runner - hard starter .
many of the conversions I have seen, really sucked.
The Tigre on alky n spark is excellent -
power to weight beats any of the "gassers"
The good part is that for whatever reason- the Tiger bearings don't crap out as do many others
The present Chinese built 2300 is -tahnk goodness the same as the first version of 2300 from Italy
someone (I suspect Hobico) screwed up subsequent carburator beyond belief
use either the stock carb and exhaust pressure or a header and pipe (again use exhaust pressure) - for a really smooth powerful arrangement
The gas conversions of the Tigres cn't touch this arrangement for smooth power.
We went thru the gas to glow CRAP stuf back when the tOC needed bigger engines to be competitive
These things sucked
The one we used was a Tarta twin with pipes and glo. a reed bank conversion by Bob Ausley and Vtech.
good runner - hard starter .
many of the conversions I have seen, really sucked.
The Tigre on alky n spark is excellent -
12-24-2009, 02:10 PM
#20
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RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
Dick,
I remember your piped ST 2300 setups. They made serious power, and were flip-and-fly simple to operate (once set up).
All, The purpose of this thread isn't to say that ignition on glow is CHEAPER than the gas engines in the long run, but that they are lighter and more powerful. Gasoline is cheaper and runs cleaner, those are moot points. You can have light, cheap to operate, or powerful. Pick any three.
No gas engine on the market will spin an APC 18x8 at 10k rpm and weigh as little as the ST 2300. The Syssa 180 may come close on a pipe.
I actually have a few engines I would like to convert to EI just to make them more reliable. They can run leaner too without preignition.
I remember your piped ST 2300 setups. They made serious power, and were flip-and-fly simple to operate (once set up).
All, The purpose of this thread isn't to say that ignition on glow is CHEAPER than the gas engines in the long run, but that they are lighter and more powerful. Gasoline is cheaper and runs cleaner, those are moot points. You can have light, cheap to operate, or powerful. Pick any three.
No gas engine on the market will spin an APC 18x8 at 10k rpm and weigh as little as the ST 2300. The Syssa 180 may come close on a pipe.
I actually have a few engines I would like to convert to EI just to make them more reliable. They can run leaner too without preignition.
12-27-2009, 12:27 AM
#21
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RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
ORIGINAL: rmh
This is not for the buy n fly types so click off now.....
This is not for the buy n fly types so click off now.....
Been there, done that with the spark/alcohol thing. Works well. No argument on that. One of Dick's engine setups on one of his planes is unbeatable. Buy and fly have to settle for whatever is provided to them.
As much as I like the OS 160 on spark/alcohol I would still like a Syssa 180.
01-19-2010, 10:22 PM
#22
RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
areobear, what is the the devise in-line with fuel line. Is it a filter? Also do you use exhaust pressure to pressurize the fuel tank? Thanks Capt,n
01-20-2010, 12:07 AM
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RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
Using a ST 3250 as the base engine.
Least power.... Stock glow on 5% nitro "big Tiger" fuel
Middle power Ignition and a gas Walbro carb 10% oil
Most power.... Ignition and 5% nitro "big tiger" fuel. If cheaper means a lot to you, then for a small power loss, try FAI fuel. But a little bit of nitro helps off idlel acceleration
Use muffler pressure and remove the inset from the carb for a real treat.
Least power.... Stock glow on 5% nitro "big Tiger" fuel
Middle power Ignition and a gas Walbro carb 10% oil
Most power.... Ignition and 5% nitro "big tiger" fuel. If cheaper means a lot to you, then for a small power loss, try FAI fuel. But a little bit of nitro helps off idlel acceleration
Use muffler pressure and remove the inset from the carb for a real treat.
01-20-2010, 11:33 AM
#25
RE: a powerful 30 cc engine
ORIGINAL: mrbigg
Looks like a Perry VP 30 pump.
ORIGINAL: captinjohn
areobear, what is the the devise in-line with fuel line. Is it a filter? Also do you use exhaust pressure to pressurize the fuel tank? Thanks Capt,n
areobear, what is the the devise in-line with fuel line. Is it a filter? Also do you use exhaust pressure to pressurize the fuel tank? Thanks Capt,n