Tseres

Got some new "Bling" from Tom at Plane Addicts. Looks great and he is an easy guy to work with.

plane addicts

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Very nice Tom. I glad to see the logo on other planes. It fits very well. Any time you need something just let me know.


OK guys I got a treat for you guys. My buddy James over at Spirit Video made a YD Aero video. He will be updating with some more info but I figured you could have a sneak peak. The first part is a comerical he is working on and then the second part is a little prop testing (so results vary lol) with the monster extras I had/have. You can hear the motor starting to prop rip on the plane when pulling the moster out of the hover. Just remember when you are watching the video that the planes are the size of a 37.5% yak but are being flown with the 112cc instead of a 150-170cc motor[X(]. I will be maidening the MSXR this week hopefully. I will try to get some footage of the motors in a true 100cc airframe as soon as I can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOiOuq619GI

Johnny_Zero

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Sweet video......Wish I could fly that good!

jedijody

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See the Pilot RC specs for a 100cc Extra 300 and a 37.5% Yak below.
Extra 300

37.5% Yak

aussiesteve

I thought he said his planes were the size of a 37.5% Yak - My understanding is that they are not actually 37.5% Yaks but Extras of a similar size.

jedijody

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See post 741, 100cc Pilot RC Extras, see the specs. I just hate reading when retailers mislead their customer base into makeing decisions with their hard earned money based on false information that the retailer either knows is false or there is no excuse for not knowing.

Has nothing to do with lost love, just horse pucky.

Super08

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It depends on the size of the plane in the video. I looked and it says pilot right on it. So with that said if it is the 100cc version it is not even close to the size of a 37.5% Yak. I have one, it is a very large plane. If it is a 40% Extra then yes it is the same size. I would have to see it in person to believe it though. That is 36 pounds of plane to throw around. With using a smaller motor it may be possible to get the weight down some, but I would build it the way it was meant.

Super08

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OK that answers it then.....

Johnny_Zero

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Interesting...............

Tseres

Did anyone ever notice that a 100cc airframe has grown from 102 " to 107" and How 100cc engines has grown to 111. Oh sorry thats the wrong brand. Right Jody.
Did anyone ever notice that a 38# plane is usually called 42% and are powered by 150cc, 170cc and 200cc engines.

So now that we have a little history over the last few years we can probably establish that 100cc planes are a little lighter and smaller then the currently called 100cc crop. Since they are in the 107" (Pilot Sboch = 109") 27# to 29# range. They are actually 120cc planes. That is why the engine manufacturers are going to 120. They need more performance to pull the plane through the sky in the manner that the 100cc used to. So if the manufacturer comes out with a 25# plane. It will be a supper performer with the 112cc.

So you see Jody. Not everyone is stupid.

plane addicts

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Jody have you had all three sitting next to each other. I have you would be suprised at how close the yak and extra are. I guess I could have worded it alittle better. I guess I should have went into more detail for you. The yak and extra have ABOUT the same fuse size. The wings have ABOUT the same profile. Which leaves the yak and extra with a diffrence on the wingspan. The diffrence in height is the landing gear. Acutually our wreck one will be getting a 150 put in it after the motor is rebuilt.

Now the MSXR is much smaller then both of these planes in physical size. The fuse is not as big and the wing profile is not so big.

Oh by the way Im not going by some word people wrote for specs I was going by visual size lol. Like an old flying friend told me once specs now a days do not mean much because people fudge them. So you have to judge the air frames for you self when you see them.

Tom

jedijody

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Old Tom,
The reason engines have grown in size is marketing, manufacturers try to edge out the competition by offering a few more cubes (whether they are actually there or not), advancements in engine design and quality have enabled some of them to make more power and last longer. ARF model manufacturers are doing the same thing and for most of them bigger flies better, it's a win win.

Other Tom,
As you know I sell planes and engines also, I professionally build and personally own 100cc (35%), 150cc (37.5%), and 170-200cc (40%) aircraft. I know their actual sizes and what they look like all assembled and sitting next to each other. If you actually think a 107" Pilot RC Extra appears to be the same size as a 37.5% Yak 54 then I apologize, but then I would suggest you make an appointment with a good optometrist. I've read your posts over the last nearly 3 months in reference to the Extra being the same size as the much larger Yak and it simply is not true, not to mention a roughly 10 pound weight difference, strap another 10 pounds to that Extra of yours and lets see another video. The written word is taken literally and the phrasing I quoted is what I take issue with when it comes from a retailer that I know knows the difference, had they been made by an end user that doesn't sell any of the products being bragged about I would not care in the least.

My comments here are merely to correct the record so people considering purchasing an airplane and or engine from any retailer know the truth and don't waste their hard earned money on a mismatched combination. Personally, I have no problems at all the engines marketed in this thread and I have a lot of respect for anyone that has spent the kind of time I have working with Chinese manufacturers to try and develop quality engines to offer at affordable prices to our modeling brothers. I know you are new to this size airframe, to these forums, and most likely to retail as well, don't be surprised when someone with even less knowledge and experience follows exactly what you write, then gets himself into trouble following false information, my little rant will seem pale in comparison.

plane addicts

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Extra 300 from Pilot

Wingspan: 107 in(2.7M)
Wing Area: 2156 sq in(13910sq cm)
Fuselage length: 101 in(2.58M)
Weight: 27.8 lbs (12.6kg)
Engine: 100cc


Real Extra 300 Spec

Crew: one pilot
Capacity: two
Length: 6.95 m (22 ft 9½ in)
Wingspan: 7.39 m (24 ft 3 in)
Height: 2.62 m (8 ft 7¼ in)
Wing area: 10.44 m² (112.4 ft²)
Airfoil: symmetrical
Empty weight: 682 kg (approx.) (1,500 lb (approx.))
Loaded weight: 952 kg (2095 lb)
Useful load: 270 kg (595 lb)
Max takeoff weight: 952 kg (2095 lb)
Powerplant: 1× Lycoming AEIO-540-L1B5 MT-Propeller composite propeller (3- or 4-blade), 224 kW (300 hp)
Fuel capacity: 52.7 U.S. gal (199.5 l)


Wingspan Math 101

Pilot extra 107in
Real Extra 291in

Real extra 291/100= 2.91

So 2.91"= 1%

Pilot Extra

107"/2.91"= 36.769759450171821305841924398625

So as we can see the plane is not in fact a 35% plane. With the common rule of rounding the plane is in fact a 37% extra. Which in turn would put it close to being a 150cc plane if we went by the outline of percentage to cc chart you mentioned.

So please before you come on a site and personally attack me or anyone else do your research. As this only make people that use to respect you lose respect for you and your company as I have. As I am on here doing testing with both airframes and motors instead of just voicing my opinion on a competitors forum. Now I will give it to you that typically a 100cc plane has a wingspan in the 107" range however the bodies are not alway scale.

This plane has a scale size body which is where the size comes into play. Not only have I noticed that the plane is large for its size class, but other guys on other forms and many flyers that I am sure have a much broader knowledge of air frame and motor set-up than both of us have also noticed the same thing.

Here is a direct qoute from another individual about the airframe and what he thinks it need for a minimum motor. "Sorry, did not weigh it yet. May be heavier than we think now. It needed all of that DA 120. Would not want a smaller engine for sure!" Now what this does not show is his little scary face that he has next to the smaller engine part since it is not compatible with this site.

So as I was pointing out the motor/plane combo was not the ticket. The airframe is large for its size class and puts it in the next class which in turn commonly has the 37.5 yak in it.

Super08

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In the end it boils down to weight IMHO not just size. The Yak is in a totally different class. An no way will the 112 do it justice. The same as the AW Extra 300 with 106" that I have. I have seen videos of it being flown with a 85cc engine and it dragged it around like a rag doll. In the same respect the airframe had been lightened a bit. The same way a 100cc class engine will not fly a 37.5% Yak at 36 to 38 pounds. The Pilot Extra may look like a bigger plane but in the end it is still a 100cc class airframe.

Where the problem lies is the statement gives a person the impression that the 112 would be good for flying a 37.5% airframe and it wouldn't unless some drastic lightening was done to it. No one is knocking the engine and how it flys a plane.

jedijody

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I know the full scale to model size math and it's irrelevant. Engine requirements are not calculated solely from the % of scale figure that an ARF manufacturer says his modelsrepresent.

Not going to argue semantics with you, if you want to tell your customers that a 107", 27 lb. plane is the same size as a 121", 37 lb. plane, you go right ahead, at least nowsome of them will know the truth.

Your bragging up the 112 which is a very fine engine and essentiallytelling everyone that it would fly their 37.5% Yak very much the same as the smallerand much lighterExtra. No where have you mentioned the Extra could use a bigger engine.

Like Isaid, put 10 lbs. on that Extra and lets see a video, or even better yet, put the veryfine 112 on a real 37.5% Yak, lets see that.

plane addicts

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Super you hit something right on the head and is what I am trying to say. The plane due to its size and design is not well suited for a 100cc motor even though it is said to be a 100cc class plane. It just does not do the plane justice. It all comes down to the design of a plane. Weight is important in areas such as hovering and slow stall style manuvers (which this plane was great at). However with high speed manuvers the drag and over all size of airframe can out weigh the weight of an airframe. Perfect example of this would be with warbirds. You can have two planes that weigh the exact same and are about the same size running the identical engines and props. But one can be faster than the other due to the design of the airframe. A plane that has a slicker airframe will travel faster due to less drag and the fact it is punching a smaller hole in the air.

So as we all can see an airframe/motor combo is determined by many factors in many areas not just specs. As specs can be fudged to make a plane more apealing for a specific class of planes. However through people trying different combos on diffrent planes we can find what works best with each given plane and motor. The pilots extra 300 is a great slow 3Der with a 100cc engine due to the extremely low wing loading. However, we need to factor all aspects of flying to find an ideal match and it is much better suited for a larger motor to perform well all around.

plane addicts

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I am not the one that informed the good people of this forum of the percentage/motor combo. That would be you. Please do some more research on airframe design beyond your basic knowledge before you come on any more forums and try to tell people that they are giving bad advice. It is best that you do not argue the semantics of something that you seem to lack knowledge of. By no means am I an airframe engineer, however I have enough knowledge on the topic to understand what effect the performance of an airframe and have an educated discussion about such a topic.

BTW I never claimed the 112 would fly the 37.5 yak. That is you reading between the lines again trying to start a war on a competitors trend. All it has accomplished is a waste of trend space and shows your lack of knowledge in airframe performance and engine requirements.

Tseres

Man! I missed all this cause I went flying.

Well said Tom.

By the way. The 28 is still a screamer.

CGAV8R

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Just post a pic of the Yak and Extra together.

plane addicts

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Kind of hard now. One is sold and the other had a not so nice landing the other day lol. Its done and over with.

BTW what field do you fly at. I live up in Spring Hill and fly at both Bay City and Can-am

So anyways

Tell us about your flight Tom. Anything fun happen today lol.

Tseres

I took the Sboch Out. I'm having Centering problems on the ailerons. I changed out both servos first. That didn't help so I changed out the rudder servo. That didn't help. I'm changing radio next. I dropped it about a month ago and it may not be operating properly.
Some people trying to find fault would probably blame the lousy air frame or the crappy engine. I just ruled that out since everyone that flew it Thinks the plane flies like a much bigger plane and boy does that engine have a lot of power.
You know us new guys we have to eliminate one thing at a time and that takes time. Just for the record this is a large 25% plane it is also heavier then the 25% MX2. Jus incase someone wanted to keep things straight.
We also did some Prop Testing on a DA-50. But we don't talk about them on this thread so I'm not telling.

CGAV8R

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I fly at a private field here in Hudson, nothing fancy, but you can fly the way you want and we're all good guys. If you want to come and fly sometime you are more than welcome. Just let me know and I'll give you my phone number.

Aaron D.

plane addicts

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Hey Aaron you must be talking about Chucks field off of Kitten trail. I am no more then 5 miles as the crow flys from there. I know a couple of the guys that fly there. I may take you up on that one day. For now my show season is in full swing and I will most likely be only able to fly at show I am attending until things slow down.

Tseres

We have about 3 weeks of flying weather left and a few days here and there. The start of the building season is upon us. Repair season for some of us.
It would be real kind of you in the southern states and you upside down flyers in Oz to post some videos or pictures through our winter. [&o] It would really help us keep our spirits up while the snow is flying. Does anyone have any Skies they want to get rid of.

RedwingRC

Hey Tom 

I do have some skis and will be doing a winter fun land video if we get some good snow this year!

maybe I'll mount a banner to the back that says Merry Christmas!  LOL