Evolution type 2 ignition
 

OK, Besides the people who were fooled into thinking a 6.0 Cell pack would have enough power to run their ignition, who has had ignition trouble that was the fault of the ignition? I bought a new Evolution 58 and the ignition was bad out of the box. When I turned on the switch it would buzz and spark, but then when I tried to start it it failed to spark again. I replaced it with a friend's ignition and it started first flip. I contacted Horizon and they said they would replace it. I returned it to Horizon,postage paid, to be "Evaluated" and now they are out of stock until Mid December. These engines are Great, but I'm not sold on their ignitions. Incidentally, a friend and I both had to turn our high speed needles out almost a full turn to get the ignition to throttle up. Also just for curiosity who is running the auto choke feature?

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Hi,
it is really strange you have problem with six cells for the ignition. It's true that ignition doesn't work if the voltage is lower than cca 6.4V when a battery is loaded. If I understant well, after power on ignition generated the sparks but than it don't produce a spark when you close a magnet to pick up (sensor). Please could you write me if LED blink ? If not, than it is problem with pick up, otherwise a battery has low voltage when it was loaded.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Well my engine wont start, and I don't know why. It is getting gas, and spark but will not run. I am running a 2 cell li-on straight in to it ant It load tests fine. It seems like when I flip the prop quickly I am not getting spark, But when I move the prop very slowly (with a firm grip) I can feel it fire. But I am unsure as to why it wont run

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Hi,
please could you check this ? Unscrew pick up and put it to the oposite thread on a one screw.pick up will be offset. If ignition will produce a spark regularly in idle-thrust, than it is problem with pick up. Please, don't spin your engine to very high RPM. A preigniton curve will be moved !! Please, send me your result's . I think it will be necessary to send it back to the producer and we will send you new one.


/ ~~\
/ ~~~ \ / / <---- moved pick up.
/ \ /
| o o | o-/ o <--- threads on an engine.

original possition new possition for pick up.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Greyhoundman,
I would be willing to bet you have a bad iginition. My ignition would spark when I turned on the switch, but not fire again after that. Sometimes when I turned on the switch it would fire the engine once when it was flooded, but still not start. The bad news that Horizon is out of stock on ignitions until mid December. If you are unlucky enough to have an old style engine (type 1 ignition) you can no longer get some parts for it. Part of my reason for starting this thread is to see how many people have bad Type 2 ignitions. I Bought mine in August and the ignition (type 2) was bad from the start. They did have some ignitions in but they are already out of stock again before I got mine sent in to be replaced. Therefore, several people are either crashing their planes or horizon is replacing SEVERAL ignitions. I would send the ignition back to Horizon to be "EVALUATED" and then give up on running that engine this year.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

I wonder how many of these engines are out there, Horizone jumped through many hoops to fix my troubles as well as sending me an entire engine when they could not replace the ignition My first ignition failed to follow the programing and when i recieved the 2nd engine there was an update to the programing on there website. That programing worked however i was unable to test the old ignition as it was returned in the same box as the new engine. I still wonder if the programing is correct on my ignition when I fire it up i get 3 short flashes of the light and one longer flash when she fires. the engine has huge power for a 19-20lb plane.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

There were two kinds of programming method. The first one, doesn't use LED and use only servo during a programming, the second one use a LED and servo. Please if you don't understand programming send me a message and I'll try to describe it in more detail.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

I understand programing verry well what I dont understand is why there is no complete and accurate manual the update on horizons site tells you the steps that you should follow. The manual shiped with the engine was wrong the function of the led was described in the original manual and on the horizon site do not explain what the lite fuction is during normal operation as i stated before i get 3 short and one longer flash as the ignition is first turned on. I would love to know if others with the short Pitts style programing get the same light flashes as i am and what flashes people get on the long style programing. Ive attached a screen shot of the description that is in the manual available from horizon I however have never seen the patterns described. IT is my guess that they are omitting the 3 short flashes as im sure the longer flash im getting isnt as long as the long silencer indicated in the photo. Im going to assume that a long silencer progamed ignition would have 3 short and one longer flash equal to about 4 of the shorter ones as indicated in the manual photo

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

I had simular problem on mine which has the latest small spark plug cap, it was shorting out through the rubber insulator which was split inside. wrapped some PTFE tape around it and it seems fine now.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

For glofuel:
At this time we prepare a WEB pages, where we would like to describe all possible problems and where you will find the answers for your questions. Sorry for this. In our manual should be wrtitten that it is very important to protect a high voltage cable and I hope a protection plastic cable is enclosed in box with the engine.

And now I would like to write a little bit about a programming. You can setup a closed and opened possition for a choke, and then you set a type of silencer. After this you can see the LED flash shown on a schema shown by [bluemagic98] for short silencer (4th curve, short light longer dark.) for long silencer (5th curve, long light and short dark). You will never see it again until a next programming procedure will take place. So after power on you don't obtain an information about a type of silencer.
The 3 short flashes and 1 long flash (after power on) tells you, that ignition works properly and battery is good, otherwise LED will blink continously (1st curve). (A battery is checked during the blinking after power on.) This curve isn't drawn in a manual.

Please write me if it was useful for you otherwise I'll try to explain it in more detail.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

I tried both advancing and retarding the timing by moving the pickup, and had no luck. Unfortunately I will have to send it off to horizon.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Isn't new technology great ? An American company can make the best system in the world with unquestioned reliablility...Some foreign company comes along with their new bling bling super duper high tech system that mostly works but not always, and everyone jumps on the bandwagon...What the foreign companies should do but won't, is offer their customers the choice of their ignition or none at all, at a much lower price..Then the customer would have a choice and could buy a C&H that works...
Will never happen...Just like buying a new car. If you want it without the audio system they will NOT give you back anywhere near what they CHARGE for the system...Only about 300% (OR MORE) profit there:eek:

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

sorta depends on one's viewpoint.
The ignitions I have had made locally ,work perfectly and the super techy stuff I get from overseas --also work perfectly .
The features offered on the imported ones are extremely appealing to a wide audience.
If they did not - they would not sell.
That is technical progress - but as such -always has it's bumps in the road.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Mine is running perfect (Evolution 45GX2). LED wire and choke servo attached.

Starts within a few flips. Just turn it on, idle throttle and flip until it starts. No full throttle choking and popping/dying, once it pops, it runs [8D]

Not really fair to make a poll like this, since people reading this thread are likely to read it because they do have problems and hence will be overrepresented, compared to the happy users not reading this thread because they don't have a problem.

Ignition and carburetion are not related- Maybe the problem is your needles are set wrong, and that is why you are having problems running the engine. Reset them to factory default and try again

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Ok, so I Used the wrong words to explain. The engine would not throttle up from idle it would merely die. The reason is because it was LEAN. Not just for me but a friends evolution 58 engine also. I am at 5300 ft MSL that might have something to do with it, but still one whole turn is a long way from factory settings. The problem is not the needles it is the ignition. I sent it back to Horizon and they are going to replace it. They agreed it is faulty.

The problem is that they are out of stock until mid December. So since they had some ignitions in stock for one week in Mid September, but one week later they are already out of stock until Mid December there must be a problem. My reason for the post is to simply to see why did they run out of stock so fast? Did they order only a few ignitions for replacement parts?, is there a rash of people crashing their planes and breaking ignitions?, Or could it possibly be that people are having trouble with their ignitions and they are having to replace them (like what happened to me). Or finally did they send all the replacement ignitions back because there was a programming problem?

For the record My point is not to bash the Evolution engine. It is one of the best, most powerful engines I have seen. I would buy another in a minute I am just not sure about the ignition. I like Ralph's idea of getting a CH ignition. I might Check into that.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

That's quite an assumption. Maybe they only had a few in stock? Maybe a lot of people with the old ignition opted to upgrade to get the autochoke, reverse running protection (which at least the 45, likes to do), lipo capability without regulator etc.

I had the old 45GX1 before i got the GX2. My GX1 ran in reverse 25% of starting attempts. This could also be the answer to RCIGN1's questions. New technology might be needed for convinience because the engines are pusing the limits - bear in mind that the 45 is only 43cc and more powerfull than a DA-50 with 50cc. Or to dick Hanson's assuptions on why they made it - maybe they made not to get a bad reputation for reverse running, and they might as well throw the other features in there as well. Anyhow, when some are innovative, there are always some saying the old way was better. I bet it was the same going from magneto to electronic ingnition aswell.

Had the GX1 not been replaced with the GX2 (for unrelated reasons - a torn cylinder) I would have been one of those that would have upgraded the ignition, for the reverse protection alone.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

what is the factory default for the muffler preignition?
How do you set it with a manual choke?
Thanks,
George G. Royal (ggroyal1)

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

What is the factory default setting for the ignition?
How do you set the preignition for the short silencer using a manual choke?
Thanks,
George G. Royal (ggroyal1)

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

you need a servo to program the thing just hook one up to the modual. the fist step of the programing sets up the choke for open and closing of the choke it wont mater if its hooked up or not just remember what direction the servo travled when you go through the steps so when the 2nd part of the programing asks you to open or close the choke you set it in the same direction as they are ussing the choke as a indicator to program the type of exhaust. All you that you need to know is what direction the servo travels when you move the servo. they do it this way because not everyone has there servo horn mounted on the same side of the servo as well as teaching the ignition what the end points are on the linkage. so technicly you wouldnt even need a sevo you would just need to remember what direction you move the throttle stick on your transmiter when it asks you to open and close the choke. I would just say down was closed and up was open and proceed with the programing. I hope this helps

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Thanks, that makes cents. This is my first gasser. Everybody at the field that flies gas uses DA's and Futaba's. We have JR's and evolution.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

[X(]

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

If you had one of the old style engines then you know that it is not simply an issue of replacing the ignition. The plug is different. You would also have to replace the cylinder head. The crank is different as well as the drive washer. So if you want to replace the ignition you have to replace all of those. Horizon is not out of Cylinder Heads, Cranks or Drive washers. THey are only out of ignitions. That is where I made my assumptions.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

). Not correct, I had both engines at the same time before I sent the GX1 back. They are identical including the plug and cap. I have heard that the most recent GX2 have a different plug though.

Those ignitions that horison had in stock was with the old plug (looking from the pics they had on the site at the time, I even considered purchasing one). Maybe they never had the new plug ignition in stock. Too many maybes to make assuptions in my humble oppinion.

As to crankshaft differences, that only applies to the 58 as far as I know.


I am very happy with my current engine, which is the reason for writing this, and would think it would be a shame if some opted for a diffent engine based on what may be a few people having problems. I don't own stocks in Horizon (or unfortunately in any other company for that matter). :D

Edited for clarity.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Pics to show...

Didn't care to remove the cowl, but I am sure the curved shape of the new ignition is recognizable. Pic of plug cap and of the complete old ignition.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Also not true. I ordered an ignition for another Evolution engine and it was the new style. I have the 58 so I can say with confidence that it is true about the crank on the 58. I dont know about the others. I do know that a friend had a front bearing go out on his old style 58 and Horizon is going to replace the engine. What does that tell you about parts on the old style engine and their availability?

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Well to tell the whole story of my GX1.

When I ran it for the first time, it threw a lot of grease from the front bearing. I thought it was just excess grease and it stopped after the first few runs. I ran the engine for about 8 liters (1½ gallon or something?), then the piston got stuck for no explainable reason. It had torn the cylinder wall an was impossible to move. I sent it in to Horizon that replaced the cylinder, piston and rings. I forgot to mention about the grease from the bearing (I had completely forgot about it at the time the engine was sent in, as I had though it was normal behaviour).

Got it back and it ran ok, but was difficult to start and became worse and worse. The dealer had another custommer where the engine threw grease from the bearing, that had bought the engine at the same time a myself. Horizon replaced both engines, no questions asked, I even got the new engine before handing the old one back.

It tell me that likely there may have been a general problem with leaking front bearings. Maybe MVVS that are producing the engines had a bad bacth of front bearing from a subcontractor or whatever. What do I know... I would all be speculation.

Any way Horizon fixed my problem (and now I know 2 others as well from what you are telling) and the new engine I got did not leak from the front bearing, it runs better than the old one and is very easy starting, especially with the autochoke.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Hi IH82CRASH, you are correct about the ignition for the evolution 45gx2. I received mine last week with a spare spark plug. The spare was much larger than the one that came with the engine. Called Horizon Hobby, they told me I have the newer version and they would send me the correct spark plug (ngk5812cm-6) at no charge and to keep the wrong one. This is my first gas engine. Everybody at the flying field use DA engines, they think anything else is junk. I have run my new 45gx2 on the bench for about an hour and it is easy to start and runs good with a 22x8 prop. Thanks for all of the info

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Remember, I am not trying to bash Horizon or the Evolution engine. I called them and asked why they were out of stock on the new ignitions. He told me he did not know. I am just trying to find out why. There are many unanswered questions that would be better answered by them rather than leaving it up to speculation. What Dick said was true about Technology and bumps in the road is true. I just wish Horizon would be Honest rather than trying just to pacify.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

ggroyal1

There seems to be an Attitude among the DA owners that says that if it ain'd DA it is junk. I have tried different kinds of engines, although I must admit not DA, and I think they all have their pro's and Con's. I live at 5300 ft MSL and Density Altitude during the summer averages about 7500 ft MSL. Therefore what works at sea level will not work here!! The evolution 58 is the only engine I have found that is powerful enough to 3D a 18 pound 50 cc Plane. Remember that Weight is a factor. Evolution engines start great and run great. Just a few bugs that need to be worked out

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

My edge has a DA 50 and it wieghs 18+ the Da works to pull it out but it does a fair job remember the 58 is 20% bigger

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Discovered this the hard way..Only bearings I have found that can be used as the front crank seal are made by NTN and have an orange colored seal...Most all others leak....Looks like a case of not enough testing before release...:eek:
If you are a do it yourselfer be sure the bearing you buy is made by NTN...

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Remember that I am at 5300 feet above sea level and density altitude averages 7500 feet above sea level in the summer time. For those of you who are at sea level or within 300 feet you would not understand. If I went to California or even Salt Lake, Ut. things would be drastically different.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Are there washers between the ignition pickup and the engine? Mine came with 2 washers on each screw, my son put one washer between pickup and engine and the other under the head of the screws that holed the pickup on the engine.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

i didnt put any washers under the pickup just under the head of the screw.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

I just had first flight with 26GT2, 15 pound extra 300, only used 1/2 throttle for regular flight. I was very pleased. I did have some trouble cranking at first, but after reading plenty here, I switched to 7.2 volt battery. I am getting some minor glitches from ignition, had to move battery pack that is connected to ignition as far away as possible from receiver, this seems to help. I am being told I need to get PCM radio now (have Futaba FM) Should that take care of ignition interference?

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

cmays02

Going to PCM just disguise's the problem does not get rid of it, most people who do it properly will fly on PPM first to ensure that a problem does not exist then switch to PCM to get the fail safe feature, so get rid of the ignition interference before going to PCM, make sure you do not have any metal too metal contact anywhere that is also a problem if you have the Rx far enough away.

Mike

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Hi we checked interference many times. We don't have some problem with it. We made test with futaba, graptner and hitec TX without some glitches, RX was placed nearby from ignition. There are only one problem. This ignition has bigger, longer and stronger spark. It's realy important to push spark cup on spark and protect high voltage cable. It's recommended to put RX battery as far as it's possible from ignition and ignition battery. Battery cable from ignition should be short, although we use wider cable some voltage decrease must be expected and then problem can be with battery test.
Finaly ignition works from 4.8V to 9V on box you can find 6 - 8.4V. I would like to stress that battery test will stop ignition if battery has less than 6.4 - 6.5V during test. This level was set for LiPol and LiIon battery. When battery test pass corectly than you can fly down to 4.8V.
Please, if you have some question, write me directly to [email protected]. I will respond as soon as possible and I hope I'll be able to help you.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

bubulak!
the LiPo batteries must not be discharged to 4.8 v
please note to users, correct low point cutoff for Li Po/ Li Ion is a must or the batteries will be destroyed.
NIMH and NI Cad is not a problem
We run the small 1.6 Evolution and now are doing customers's 116cc twin with factory cans
Having done reviews for magazine - using these engines , we are very pleased with operation
It is important that all battery information be made as clear as possible as we see some customers making serious mistakes which can ruin batteries and cause confusion.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Hi,
I know that 4.8V is low for LiIon and LiPol battery. (For LiIon is minimum 3.0V) I wanted to tell you, that you can be sure, that ignition will work, if voltage goes down bellow 6V (I know that this is wery bad for battery, bat model or plane is more expensive than battery). High voltage part and processor can run down to 4.8V as I wrote fomerly. There is one problem if you are using a servo for choke. A stabiliser for servo start working from 5.5V.

RE: Evolution type 2 ignition
 

Need spark plug gap for new ignition for mvvs 45
Thanks,
George G. Royal